What glue to use?

[upstatepano]

Just wondering what others use to glue up their segmented blanks that utilize aluminum, brass and/or copper flat stock and accent rods.
I've tried Epoxy, CA, GO2, and various other glues with very mixed results. Seems like they work sometime and then the next time they will fall apart. I always rough up the metals and clean them as well as the wood they will be glued to. In addition I always let them cure for at least 24 hours. I've seen some beautiful segmented pens on this forum using the material I've mentioned so there has to be a solution.
If anyone knows the magic glue it would be greatly appreciated or maybe someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Thanks

 

[Rolandranch]

I've done quite a few segmented pens using metal. I always use thick CA. Sometimes the blanks come apart when drilling but they are easy to reglue. Epoxy or something else might work better though. I haven't done any experimenting with different glue or epoxy.

 

[NVSB4]

It may not just be the glue that you are using.
When are they coming apart? Is it during the drilling or turning?
You might be getting a catch that's twisting them apart.

 

[upstatepano]

It may not just be the glue that you are using.
When are they coming apart? Is it during the drilling or turning?
You might be getting a catch that's twisting them apart.

Thanks, never considered that possibility. Most of the time it's during drilling. I do drill on the lathe at slow speeds. I have had accent rods pop out during the turning.

 

[Gwatson50]

I also use thick CA and typically do not have problems but I don't turn many ferrous metals.


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[upstatepano]

I've done quite a few segmented pens using metal. I always use thick CA. Sometimes the blanks come apart when drilling but they are easy to reglue. Epoxy or something else might work better though. I haven't done any experimenting with different glue or epoxy.

Thanks Seth, I've never tried the thick CA but may give it a try.

 

[ajollydds]

Lots of previous threads on this in the segmenting forum, I think I read them all.

Cliff notes version: if glueing wood to wood, use wood glue (titebond). Wood to metal or acrylic use epoxy. CA works for getting pieces together that are hard to clamp since it sets quickly.

I use JB Weld clear 5 minute epoxy, but let it cure for at least 24hrs. I like that it is clear. Probably a good idea to wait 24hrs for any segmenting. I also drill on my lathe.

If blanks blow up when drilling: avoid Brad point bits with metal, use sharp bits, drill slow. You may even want/need to tape or glue popsicle sticks to the outside of your blanks before you drill. This acts like a cast to hold the blank together. Others have used gauze wrapped around the blank with CA to hold it all together.

The glue is not the issue. Forces, heat, and technique are. Find what works for you and experiment with it, right JT?

 

[upstatepano]

Lots of previous threads on this in the segmenting forum, I think I read them all.

Cliff notes version: if glueing wood to wood, use wood glue (titebond). Wood to metal or acrylic use epoxy. CA works for getting pieces together that are hard to clamp since it sets quickly.

I use JB Weld clear 5 minute epoxy, but let it cure for at least 24hrs. I like that it is clear. Probably a good idea to wait 24hrs for any segmenting. I also drill on my lathe.

If blanks blow up when drilling: avoid Brad point bits with metal, use sharp bits, drill slow. You may even want/need to tape or glue popsicle sticks to the outside of your blanks before you drill. This acts like a cast to hold the blank together. Others have used gauze wrapped around the blank with CA to hold it all together.

The glue is not the issue. Forces, heat, and technique are. Find what works for you and experiment with it, right JT?

Thanks for the detailed information. I did a search but must have done something wrong as I got zip. My success rate has been about 75 % and I'm thinking it may be the drilling and the heat. I do try to go slow and take my time because of the heat issues. Once it's drilled I normally don't have much of a problem when turning except when using accent rods. It's a "hold your breath" and see what happens with the rods.

 

[KenV]

Sharp bits and sharp turning tools. Not "could have been sharper" tools and bits!!!

Short cuts on sharpest it can be is higher failure rate.

 

[leehljp]

I use epoxy 99% of the time. When working with segments, wood, metal, acrylic and combinations there of, open or working time is essential.

There are several ways to do segments, and mine is usually drill parts and add them on the tube and glue. When doing this, open time is necessary to get parts aligned and clamped before the glue sets up. I have done drilling on segmented blanks AFTER the blank was assembled. And I used CA in some parts and epoxy on others.

The key is not which is necessarily better in holding BUT in the techniques used in both drilling and turning:

Heat and too fast drilling will cause failure on both. Many people who have done unique segments go at it very very slow until the technique is mastered. Early on, on this forum, people would wrap the blank in string and CA the string; now it is suggested to wrap it in a few layers of gauze, and CA the gauze, then drill or begin the turn. The purpose of this is to hold it together until the turning is well under way. It is not a matter that your CA or epoxy in weak per se, but that they (delicate segments) need reinforcement to stay together until being round. Heat WITH stress is what causes separation. Heat alone will not necessarily cause it to come apart, say at 120° but at 120° heat AND Stress will cause it to loose adhesion. Therefore, the gauze trick will keep it together, and relieve the overall stress on the segment as it goes through it low heat crisis without losing integrity. Does that make sense?

Another thing: What Ken said! Don't turn with "reasonably sharp" tools.

ON the segments below, I swiped my HSS scraper across 1200 sandpaper every 30 seconds or so (honing), or it would cause them to come apart.


View in Gallery


View in Gallery


View in Gallery

 

[Bryguy]

I use thick CA to glue my segments together. I've tried a number of different glues for tubes but have found 100% success with Gorilla glue. If you are using metals in your segments it is essential to keep the drill bit cool. Withdraw the bit frequently. Use a damp piece of paper towel to cool it before re-insertion. Once you heat the CA it lets go and your blank is blown.
I turn my blanks on center before I drill them in my Nova pen chuck. This ensures that the tube is centered. Coating the outside of the blank with CA prior to drilling
helps. If you drill square blanks on a press. Glue an extra strip of wood (try a popsicle stic
k) up each side of the blank to help hold it together.
None of these tricks will help if your bit isn't sharp and cool.

 

[mikepet]

Try wrapping your blank with duct tape or electrical tape before drilling. This might give it enough resistance to help keep the pieces from falling apart when drilling.

 

[Woodchipper]

Reviewing as I need to build a bunch of pens. I want to do segmenting to offer more than the plain vanilla blanks. Drill bits- jobber or brad point? I don't anticipate any metal at this time. Obviously, sharp bits and tools are a must. I have Titebond III glue, thick CA, and Dev Con 2 Ton Epoxy (used this to build golf clubs so it will take a lot of punishment). Thanks.