Value of your time....

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Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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How much is your time turning pens worth.

My personal opinion on this subject is simple - it is worth as much as you'd be getting for it if you were doing something else.

If you turn pens rather than watch recreational football on Saturday and Sunday afternoons - it is worth zero because that what it's worth watching footbal - in fact it might be less than zero because you could very well be having a couple of cool ones watching the game that you wouldn't have turning pens. This, in my opinion, is why you see so many low priced pens offered on Etsy and websites. The makers properly value the time they spent making them at the recreational rate of zero, and need only to recover the material and shipping costs to make a profit. They also recognize that a pen sold at any price brings them more money than a pen in a drawer of display case gathering dust.

If you turn pens rather than go to another job, then your time is worth what you'd make by taking the other job and if you can't earn that much by making and marketing pens, you ought to take the other job.

If you turn pens as a profit making small business your time is worth what you make in profit, it is not represented in your cost of doing business and in fact for tax purposes, by law, cannot be included in your costs. Small business owners considering the long hours they put in are typically low paid when their profits are calculated and spread over the hours worked. Most would make more per hour working for someone else. Pen turners have no reason to expect that turning pens would be different than almost any other small business.
 
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I believe you make a good point here. I love turning pens. I don't care that much if I sell them, although I certainly enjoy selling them. But turning pens is somewhat like playing golf to me, I am willing to pay for golf because I enjoy it.

It is nice when I sell a pen at a profit- when I can essentially gain similar enjoyment as I get out of golf but someone pays me for it - but I find great personal satisfaction and joy out of the process. Making pens I am rewarded, selling pens is just a bonus. It is a hobby, not a business. If I sell a pen for more than what I have into it, I am happy. But since I have been on this site, I've gotten the idea that I OUGHT to be raising my prices to reflect what others are making. That has probably lead to me selling less pens, but making more money.

That is interesting because I enjoy making the pens more than I enjoy making the money!

Thanks for the post Smitty.

Steve
 
I am new to Pen turning I enjoy it I also own a CNC machine which I use on different projects. I am retired and partially Disabled I do this mainly as a hobby I have sold some of my CNC projects Cheap just enough money to pay for materials and wear and tear on equipment. As far as being paid for my time it is a non issue since I enjoy what I do.I may explore the the Idea of a Esty site one day I just don't want to turn my hobbies into a job.
 
I am new to Pen turning I enjoy it I also own a CNC machine which I use on different projects. I am retired and partially Disabled I do this mainly as a hobby I have sold some of my CNC projects Cheap just enough money to pay for materials and wear and tear on equipment. As far as being paid for my time it is a non issue since I enjoy what I do.I may explore the the Idea of a Esty site one day I just don't want to turn my hobbies into a job.
I understand and think you're making a wise choice....I
 
My recreational time is priceless because I have a two year old daughter and another on the way. But I do agree with your post to a degree. I used to add $15 an hour into the price of everything and then try to make profit on top, my logic being that I could be at my 8-5 job making $15 instead of in front of my lathe, but that didn't seem quite fair so I changed it. Now I just price things at where I feel they will sell. If I can't make back what I have into it plus a little spending cash I just don't sell it.
 
My recreational time is priceless because I have a two year old daughter and another on the way. But I do agree with your post to a degree. I used to add $15 an hour into the price of everything and then try to make profit on top, my logic being that I could be at my 8-5 job making $15 instead of in front of my lathe, but that didn't seem quite fair so I changed it. Now I just price things at where I feel they will sell. If I can't make back what I have into it plus a little spending cash I just don't sell it.
The problem with that is, if you could be at your 8 - 5 job, you probably would be.

And, if time spent with your children is worth more to you than turning pens (and I think it should be) you'll spend less time turning pens and more time with the kids and be happier.
 
My recreational time is priceless because I have a two year old daughter and another on the way. But I do agree with your post to a degree. I used to add $15 an hour into the price of everything and then try to make profit on top, my logic being that I could be at my 8-5 job making $15 instead of in front of my lathe, but that didn't seem quite fair so I changed it. Now I just price things at where I feel they will sell. If I can't make back what I have into it plus a little spending cash I just don't sell it.
All my children are grow youngest 25 oldest 35 I was a workaholic for over 30 years working Construction all over california. One year I worked every day except 3 christmas, Easter and my Grandfathers funeral. If I could do it all over again I would have just did my 40 hours I lost time with my kids the boys little league my girls Softball. I lost my oldest son to a car accident at the age of 27 it's been 6 years but it is just like yesterday. I stop and think I missed the younger years of his life I feel I was not fair to him or my other kids. to make this short enjoy every moment with your love ones you never know when it will be taken away from you.
 
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At this point in my life (retired), I have so many wonderful things to experience and not enough time to accomplish it all. Turning pens is a relaxing and rewarding experience for me, but I could be doing something else that is equally desirable, so I arbitrarily put a $15 to $20 an hour price on my time to help establish a pricing scheme for sales. That seems to work out well for what people are willing to pay for my pens.

I could just make pens for myself and as gifts, but I find the business side of things to be equally enjoyable. The entire process of starting and running a small business has been as much fun as making the pens. I'm new to all this and it's been a great learning experience.
 
The problem with that is, if you could be at your 8 - 5 job, you probably would be.

My situation may be different because I could be at my 8-5 an extra 3-4 hours a day but I hate my job. And the normal 8 hours pays the bills, maybe once I become an electrician I wouldn't mind it as much.

And, if time spent with your children is worth more to you than turning pens (and I think it should be) you'll spend less time turning pens and more time with the kids and be happier.

Yep time with the kiddo is definitely a big reason I don't turn more. At least until she is old enough to want to join me LOL :biggrin: Until then its a juggling game of time. Most of my shop time is when my wife and daughter go visit her mother or when the two of them are just laying down getting ready for bed (I had to sound proof my shop so I don't disturb them) because I don't go to bed until a few hours later usually.

But again my pricing now is such that if I spend 3 hours making a pen and it only sells for $15 more than overhead I'm still happy.

Also it doesn't bother me to see low price pens places. And if I don't sell a pen that's fine too I'll wind up giving it to someone as a gift. The little bit extra I tack on is more so I can buy the things I want to make.
 
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My recreational time is priceless because I have a two year old daughter and another on the way. But I do agree with your post to a degree. I used to add $15 an hour into the price of everything and then try to make profit on top, my logic being that I could be at my 8-5 job making $15 instead of in front of my lathe, but that didn't seem quite fair so I changed it. Now I just price things at where I feel they will sell. If I can't make back what I have into it plus a little spending cash I just don't sell it.
All my children are grow youngest 25 oldest 35 I was a workaholic for over 30 years working Construction all over california. One year I worked every day except 3 christmas, Easter and my Grandfathers funeral. If I could do it all over again I would have just did my 40 hours I lost time with my kids the boys little league my girls Softball. I lost my oldest son to a car accident at the age of 27 it's been 6 years but it is just like yesterday. I stop and think I missed the younger years of his life I feel I was not fair to him or my other kids. to make this short enjoy every moment with your love ones you never know when it will be taken away from you.

Me too. I am going thru same experience and doubts.

Russ
 
I am new to Pen turning I enjoy it I also own a CNC machine which I use on different projects. I am retired and partially Disabled I do this mainly as a hobby I have sold some of my CNC projects Cheap just enough money to pay for materials and wear and tear on equipment. As far as being paid for my time it is a non issue since I enjoy what I do.I may explore the the Idea of a Esty site one day I just don't want to turn my hobbies into a job.



I agree.Everyone says I should have a web sight .I think if I did It would become a job.I enjoy making pens and am happy to get the cost of materials back so its a wash.Also being disabled,I just like the time I spend on the lathe.
 
My recreational time is priceless because I have a two year old daughter and another on the way. But I do agree with your post to a degree. I used to add $15 an hour into the price of everything and then try to make profit on top, my logic being that I could be at my 8-5 job making $15 instead of in front of my lathe, but that didn't seem quite fair so I changed it. Now I just price things at where I feel they will sell. If I can't make back what I have into it plus a little spending cash I just don't sell it.
All my children are grow youngest 25 oldest 35 I was a workaholic for over 30 years working Construction all over california. One year I worked every day except 3 christmas, Easter and my Grandfathers funeral. If I could do it all over again I would have just did my 40 hours I lost time with my kids the boys little league my girls Softball. I lost my oldest son to a car accident at the age of 27 it's been 6 years but it is just like yesterday. I stop and think I missed the younger years of his life I feel I was not fair to him or my other kids. to make this short enjoy every moment with your love ones you never know when it will be taken away from you.

Me too. I am going thru same experience and doubts.

Russ
I know what both of you mean - I lost a son to cancer at 45 and had to watch him spend 9 years fighting what everyone knew would be a losing battle. It wasn't easy.
 
I sell some of my pens for what I consider good prices....$50 to $75 for a LeRoi, for example. But frankly, I get more satisfaction from giving a beautiful pen to someone I think deserves it. The joy of giving something beautiful is worth more to me than the money I could get selling the pen.
 
That's kind of in keeping with my attitude. For instance, even at my advanced age, I could get a job working 3 hours a day 4 days a week at a pretty low wage and net as much as I net in profits from my business putting in 2 times that much time per day 7 days a week. I don't do that because running my business, I'm the boss, I can add value to what I sell and I answer only to my customers - every now and then I can make one of them real happy....beats the tar out of standing around saying "welcome to Wal-Mart" or some other worthless job created so the employer can say "I hire the elderly"
 
The reverse could also be tru with regards to how much the time is worh. If I really enjoy doing something, the time spent doing it is the reward and not the money. People ask me why I don't change my own oil and fluids in my truck even though I know how. My standard answer is, "My time is worth more to me than the money it costs to have someone else do it in half the time." With pens, I give most of them away and sell only those that are commissioned. I enjoy the time spent doing it, so the time is worth more to me because it is something I enjoy.
 
I have found that if you are 60+ company's don't think your time is worth anything. After losing my part time job at the local hospital due to ( well I won't go there) and looking for something to replace it, no one wants you. Of course they don't say it is because of your age, I have been told that I don't meet the company criteria to be hired. So I stay out in the shop doing pens for my charity's and get a lot of satisfaction. Just have to cut back because of the income shortage. It is kinda a hard thing to accept that you are not needed anymore in the work force. It don't matter what your experience is, or that you have never been late to work, called in sick 1 time in 30 years. Just your age is what is looked at. They want good looking young people regardless of anything else. ( I know I am old and Ugly ). The satisfaction I get from doing my charity's pens is I can say PRICELESS.
 
I ask $30 an hour shop time when doing work for folks. There was a time I made $90 an hour and it was work and I enjoyed what I did. Today, at 73, if it ain't fun I ain't doin' it. If I decide to do it for nothing, that's what I charge. If I am having a ton of fun I'm likely to charge less. I just fixed a latch to a Stickley cabinet from the early 1920s for a guy and it took me over 2 hours. It was a fun challenge and it came out nicely. I learned something new and used several tools I don't get too use often so, I charged him $10. To me that was what the part was worth. Only you can determine what your time, talent and experience are worth; just the way I see it.
WB
 
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