Tung Oil
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peter1958
Member
Hello Cynot,
There is a article on boiled linseed oil in combination with CA glue.
I have a can of danish oil, >90% tung oil, and i tried it a few times on on a pen.
It works well.
Peter
There is a article on boiled linseed oil in combination with CA glue.
I have a can of danish oil, >90% tung oil, and i tried it a few times on on a pen.
BLO (boiled linseed oil) speeds up the curing of CA glue.
I did a small experiment to see if this indeed is the case. On top of a metal lid, I placed four small blobs of CA mixed with different stuff. Back left: CA+CA, back right: CA+raw walnut oil, front right: CA+BLO, front left: CA+water. In a few minutes, the CA+water and the CA+BLO began to...
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It works well.
Peter
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Roly
Member
I have only tried tung oil once and it worked fine. I tend to lean towards several coats of Danish teak oil followed by a couple of coats of carnuba wax.
leehljp
Member Liaison
Tony,
Tung oil has been used on pens by a few since almost as long as this forum has been operating. It isn't used regularly though, IMO. Tung oil needs to be studied closely if one wants the best that TO has to offer as a finish. Some finishes that say "TO finish" have little or no TO in it. Most "100% Tung Oil" finishes need days to cure/dry for a single coat. Successive coats take as long also.
TO is a super finish and highly water proof, better than any other oil as a water protector/proofer, but length of time for curing is a factor. There are some TO's with dryers/polymers to help them catalyze faster, but beware of "TO Finishes" . . . look at the specific contents. With other TO finishes, read the contents and specifics for which that particular brand and or blend was created. Even then, TO will not give a CA type of shine, but you can get an almost satin sheen that will make some woods look luxurious - but again, it takes time and work. If you like wood look without the shine, TO is excellent for protecting the wood.
Polyurthane can work but there are different kinds of poly. The kind that goes on gym floors or bowling alleys will work well. And applied over TO should work well.
One thing that needs to be pointed out with pens to those new to pen making - pens made from wood blanks are not the same as furniture. Furniture and wood walls do not go through the same handling process that pens do. Pens are handled a dozen times a day, placed in caustic humid hands and pockets, often put into pants pockets or purses bouncing around with pocket change or stuff in a purse. Placed on a dash or car seat where it can reach 150° or taken outside in a pocket when it is 20° and taken from a controlled environment to huge swing in humidity. This takes a toll on finishes. Wood furniture does not go through this and the finishes for pens should not be considered to be the same. A caveat is that owners of fine expensive pens will take care of their pens and clean them on a consistent and regular basis. Most people don't do this. The caustic sweat of hands and shirt pocket humidity will deteriorate most common poly type finishes kinda quickly.
BLO has been mentioned and it works for many. Watch out for applying BLO on oily blanks such as ebonies and a few others (Oily woods) as it can easily interfer with adhesion in those cases. But for non-oily woods they do fine, but not absolutely necessary*. If you are in a very dry and warm/hot locale, BLO may not be necessary for speeding up the curing process.
*As to "not absolutely necessary" BLO does well for many in many instances, but down the road, many people do run into finish problems. The conclusion is that "the more things you add in, the more chances for problems". Wet sanding, BLO, Accelerant, DNA (Denatured Alcohol) all help, but sooner or later there will come a time when it just doesn't work in a particular situation. Then the answer is reduce to the simplest form of finish. And this is a learning experience. There will be times that BLO works fine; There will be times when wet sanding will work OK; There will be times when accelerant will help tremendously. And the answer is: LOOK at all the different ways you have learned, and know how to use different ones in different situations. No one formula works ALL the time for the majority of people.
Tung oil has been used on pens by a few since almost as long as this forum has been operating. It isn't used regularly though, IMO. Tung oil needs to be studied closely if one wants the best that TO has to offer as a finish. Some finishes that say "TO finish" have little or no TO in it. Most "100% Tung Oil" finishes need days to cure/dry for a single coat. Successive coats take as long also.
TO is a super finish and highly water proof, better than any other oil as a water protector/proofer, but length of time for curing is a factor. There are some TO's with dryers/polymers to help them catalyze faster, but beware of "TO Finishes" . . . look at the specific contents. With other TO finishes, read the contents and specifics for which that particular brand and or blend was created. Even then, TO will not give a CA type of shine, but you can get an almost satin sheen that will make some woods look luxurious - but again, it takes time and work. If you like wood look without the shine, TO is excellent for protecting the wood.
Polyurthane can work but there are different kinds of poly. The kind that goes on gym floors or bowling alleys will work well. And applied over TO should work well.
One thing that needs to be pointed out with pens to those new to pen making - pens made from wood blanks are not the same as furniture. Furniture and wood walls do not go through the same handling process that pens do. Pens are handled a dozen times a day, placed in caustic humid hands and pockets, often put into pants pockets or purses bouncing around with pocket change or stuff in a purse. Placed on a dash or car seat where it can reach 150° or taken outside in a pocket when it is 20° and taken from a controlled environment to huge swing in humidity. This takes a toll on finishes. Wood furniture does not go through this and the finishes for pens should not be considered to be the same. A caveat is that owners of fine expensive pens will take care of their pens and clean them on a consistent and regular basis. Most people don't do this. The caustic sweat of hands and shirt pocket humidity will deteriorate most common poly type finishes kinda quickly.
BLO has been mentioned and it works for many. Watch out for applying BLO on oily blanks such as ebonies and a few others (Oily woods) as it can easily interfer with adhesion in those cases. But for non-oily woods they do fine, but not absolutely necessary*. If you are in a very dry and warm/hot locale, BLO may not be necessary for speeding up the curing process.
*As to "not absolutely necessary" BLO does well for many in many instances, but down the road, many people do run into finish problems. The conclusion is that "the more things you add in, the more chances for problems". Wet sanding, BLO, Accelerant, DNA (Denatured Alcohol) all help, but sooner or later there will come a time when it just doesn't work in a particular situation. Then the answer is reduce to the simplest form of finish. And this is a learning experience. There will be times that BLO works fine; There will be times when wet sanding will work OK; There will be times when accelerant will help tremendously. And the answer is: LOOK at all the different ways you have learned, and know how to use different ones in different situations. No one formula works ALL the time for the majority of people.
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All good insights and very informative. I'm going to experiment with this and I'll post my results. Unfortunately, I go back to work tomorrow and my Christmas vacation honey-do list still has a few tasks left; and pen making is not one of them.
jttheclockman
Member
This statement Hank made, should be pasted at the top of the finishing forum for all to see especially Newbies. True words here.
One thing that needs to be pointed out with pens to those new to pen making - pens made from wood blanks are not the same as furniture. Furniture and wood walls do not go through the same handling process that pens do. Pens are handled a dozen times a day, placed in caustic humid hands and pockets, often put into pants pockets or purses bouncing around with pocket change or stuff in a purse. Placed on a dash or car seat where it can reach 150° or taken outside in a pocket when it is 20° and taken from a controlled environment to huge swing in humidity. This takes a toll on finishes. Wood furniture does not go through this and the finishes for pens should not be considered to be the same. A caveat is that owners of fine expensive pens will take care of their pens and clean them on a consistent and regular basis. Most people don't do this. The caustic sweat of hands and shirt pocket humidity will deteriorate most common poly type finishes kinda quickly.
One thing that needs to be pointed out with pens to those new to pen making - pens made from wood blanks are not the same as furniture. Furniture and wood walls do not go through the same handling process that pens do. Pens are handled a dozen times a day, placed in caustic humid hands and pockets, often put into pants pockets or purses bouncing around with pocket change or stuff in a purse. Placed on a dash or car seat where it can reach 150° or taken outside in a pocket when it is 20° and taken from a controlled environment to huge swing in humidity. This takes a toll on finishes. Wood furniture does not go through this and the finishes for pens should not be considered to be the same. A caveat is that owners of fine expensive pens will take care of their pens and clean them on a consistent and regular basis. Most people don't do this. The caustic sweat of hands and shirt pocket humidity will deteriorate most common poly type finishes kinda quickly.
peter1958
Member
We all "know" that pens are going through these human tortures. What do you suggest as a good finish for a pen?
Ca can withstand higher temperatures, but are there any other products that can be used?
jttheclockman
Member
Oh that opens up a debate and not one for using these products so will leave that to others. This depends alot if you want that high gloss plastic look. Some products you can dull the sheen down. I am a CA man and have good success and no problems applying or from fumes. So will continue to use it. But there are products like Gluboost that gets high marks from fans here. There are those that use poly that seems to get some votes. These are hard top coat finishes. Now I forgot the name but there are a couple finishes that people were trying that cured with a UV light source and I am sure others can chime in on those. Sorry forgot the names of them. Then there is one you do not hear of much here and that is powdercoating, this can be done with wood as well. Again have not tried any of these. There was one other that was a huge hit back in the early 2000's and I still have some but again name escapes me. It is a poly but designed for turning projects. Will get the name.(Enduro) Another one I forgot about and you do not hear much any more but was melting of plexiglass as a finish. This had promise but never really took off. CA became easier and more popular and still is today.
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leehljp
Member Liaison
But are there other products that can be used? Other than CA?
As John said, it is up for debate. But the bottom line is - look up what finishes will withstand ALL of those circumstances and situations. There are tough finishes, but are pen turners willing to wait a week for a finish to cure? I am sure there are industrial finishes that will be tough, withstand high temps but the price would be out of reach for most people. The Japanese Urushi finishes are tough and temperature resistant to a degree, but the skill and time needed are beyond the patience of most pen makers, and it can cause severe allergies until cured.
No, there are no "ordinary" finishes that will have all the good characteristics available in a short time. It might be easier to educate EACH buyer on the advantages of taking care of their new pen and what things to avoid! Include instructions and a cleaning cloth with each.
. . . Some pen makers here do just that!
Other than CA, all finishes can be excellent if people take care of them and clean them, but they won't. It depends upon your clientele. $50 - $300, use CA for most. Other oil finishes and waxes if you want a wood feel and look (non-shiny). Real Tung Oil is the best for moisture resistance, but it also, as mentioned above, needs to be rubbed into it and let it cure and rubbed into it again. Once you get into $400 - $500 and up - pens, most of those buyer will take care and clean their pens on a regular basis.
I will admit up front that I don't know it all and there are new finishes coming out on occasion. The UV curing finishes that are used on pool cues and some fishing rods were tried here. They had great promise but it hasn't worked out consistently.
Keep looking and trying.
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Maybe I've just had beginner's luck, but I've been using tung oil without waiting for it to cure--let it soak in, then wipe off any excess and add a dozen coats of CA. My everyday fountain pen's been in my pocket with keys and pocket knife for months and you have to look close to see any marks. YMMV ...
leehljp
Member Liaison
David, yes it will work as you said. There are other oils such as BLO and teak oil that can be covered by CA, Polyurethane and others. However, the original post was asking about TO primarily and Polyurethane. Poly is OK but not necessarily a long lasting cover for a pen finish; Gym floor or bowling alley type of poly are more durable. Industrial grade polys can probably work too. As to CA and Tung Oil, yes. CA will generally last longer than Poly but Poly is acceptable to some. One problem with poly is using it before it has fully cured, or using it some conditions and it seems to soften a bit due to humidity or caustic sweat humidity from the palms/fingers or shirt pocket.
That brings the questions to "Why Oils" underneath a hard protective outer finish. Oils under poly or CA - in general are used to "pop the grain" or make the grain stand out. BLO and Teak oils are primarily used for that. BLO is used by some to speed up the curing of CA just a tad. A pen maker should get familiar with the different kinds of woods and do some google searches on specific woods: Oily woods (woods with oily resins such as ebonies, snake wood etc.) and BLO (or other finish oils) are a recipe for the CA or poly not building a strong bond on the wood and later separating from the wood.
Using TO as a preservative under CA or Poly are not necessary in most cases, but it is not going to hurt unless the wood is an oily wood.
IN your case of using TO under CA before the TO has cured is similar to using BLO or Teak to "pop the grain". By not letting it cure, the benefits are not much different than BLO or Teak.
I should make a minor correction here: There are two general types of CA Applications: One in which a CA layer is built up by applying 8, 10, 12 layers with paper towel that amount to .005" or .008" thickness max - using calipers to see how much the CA has built up, . . . versus applying a few thick layers of CA to build up .01", .015", .02" etc. The thicker .01 & .015 & .02" will in all probability not need oils or tung oil as a preservative as the CA alone will do that. The thinner layers may benefit from TO as a preservative/water resistance.
Everyone's use and choice of oils or CA or Poly or lacquer are purely subjective. But to me, Tung oil has three distinct advantages in combination that others generally have only one. 1. Tung Oil and others - pop the grain, 2. TO - a super finish on its own if one allows the TO to saturate for a period of time, wipe off and repeat. This is my personal choice, it does better than most oils and lasts longer when done this way over a week or two (on furniture - but I don't do it on pens, personal choice). 3. T.O. properly applied is far more water proofing than other oils and even lacquer and some polys.
Not yet mentioned: Waxes: Waxes are temporary at best. They make wood look beautiful, but they are not permanent. Waxes are a continual process.
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sbwertz
Member
I have two small tables I finished with tung oil about ten years ago and they still look great. Never used it on pens. Don't know how well it would stand up to the oil and acid in human skin. Many finishes will get dull right where your fingers hold it if the pen is actually used on a regular basis.
I'm thinking there is probably a market for a pen that shows wear from use. Harley Davidson offers a flat paint on some of their models that is intended to incurr scratches and wear spots, making the bike unique to the owner. Have you ever seen Willie Nelson's guitar? I bet he wouldn't part with it for anything. I could see though someone wanting their pen to get " customized " purely by their use of it.
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