troubles, troubles, troubles in mind

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ahoiberg

ahoiberg

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Ames, IA, USA.
howdy all... i had my first go at CA finishing last night. i basically got some thin CA spread over it for a sealing coat and things kinda went wrong from there. i just could not get any of the coats to dry and when they went on, they looked nice, uniform and glossy but when drying they would almost get grainy and uneven... anyone else have this experince? is CA heat sensitive? meaning if my garage is cold will it take forever to dry and set up?

also, has anyone tried getting it to desired grit and then just applying one coat of thin CA? i was going to try this as a last resort and then i had the same effect of it looking like it had soaked into the wood/drying unevenly despite it's spectacular look when applied...

i know there's a million threads on this but it gets confusing with all the different methods so any general help on this matter would be appreciated.

thanks!
 
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another thing i don't get is when you go back to sand out "glossy" areas on the CA finish or make it smooth or whatever, it seems like it leaves grooves and messy areas on the CA, will this smooth back out with finer grits or do you just need to remove it all at this point?
 
Andrew, I'm not a big CA finish guy, but I use it on occasion. First off, yes, temperature can have an effect on CA.

Most importantly, take time to read some of the tutorials on CA finishing. Don Ward and Fangar have excellent tutorials, IIRC. Pick ONE method, and follow it exactly, no changes, until you get comfortable with it. Then, you can alter it to best suit you. I see a common problem with people trying parts of a method, and then having it not work.

FWIW,
 
I have found that temperature (ambient temp of your shop) is not a hugh factor...I've applied CA in the coldest my shop get and also at it hottest. Humidity is more of a culprit. I don't remember experiencing the problems you describe. We all seem to have various problems arise. They may all be similar but described differently. Like eye witness accounts to an accident...one witnesses's report doesn't sound like others. [;)]
I would suggest to find on technique..there are several around...and try to duplicate it. CA works great as a finish and since there are several techniques from which to choose, it seems to be a popular and reliable finish. You may need to take the technique you want to use and tweak it to your shop conditions. There are several variables that you can manipulate. The ones that I found to help me the most was lathe speed and the amount of oil I use. I now finish at a faster speed than I did when I first started. At first I had to slow the lathe down really slow. .. 500 rpm is as slow as my Jet VS will go (I think). Once I slowed down the rpms, the finish began to work. Then I had to tweak the amount of oil. Too much oil is possible. I do not use an accelerator to curing the CA, but I do use it to clean the blanks prior to applying the CA. I once used denatured alcohol, but accelerator seems to work with better results. Don't know why.
Good luck and ...
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
How cold is your garage? I think Cav is correct, this time, but he doesn't know anything about cars.[:D][}:)] When I first started using CA, I tried to follow Fangar's method until I glued a piece of sandpaper to my finger.[:0][B)] I discovered that CA gets VERY hot when it cures. I altered his method just enough to eliminate that problem but other than that I followed his method and it worked great. Russ has mentioned putting on 2-3 coats of thin CA, then using MM and finally putting on a friction polish.

Also, what kind of CA are you using? You can't use the stuff the big box stores sell, you need high quality CA.
 
i'm using the CA from woodturningz. seems like good stuff. i'm gonna try Russ' method with the thin coats and friction polish. it seems simple and that's what i need at this point.
 
With all due respect to Don, I disagree about temperature. I do agree that humidity plays a role, but temps make a big difference. I have an unheated/uncooled outdoor "shop", and back in the fall I had a very large order. My finish quality was really good in the beginning, when the outside temperatures were 50-70 degrees while I was working (in-shop temp was even warmer, just due to me being in there, and the fact that it's a small shop). Toward the end of the order, the temps weren't getting much above freezing outside, and in my shop it probably barely hit 50 degrees. The finish on those pens wasn't anywhere near as glossy, despite more time spent applying the finish, sanding, etc. I see that you're in Colorado, so I'd guess that for you, humidity is less of a factor, but that temperature may be playing a role in your outcomes.

I used to sand to 12000 grit MM, then apply the CA, then re-sand. For most woods, I now sand to 400-600 grit sandpaper, then apply several coats of CA to even everything out, then MM.
 
Not a problem Jim and Cav. I did say that temp was not a problem for me.[;)] I did not mean to imply that temp was not a factor to be ignored. It seems to be a factor for others. We all seem to have our own variables that affect our success with CA. But, I'm not sure that we all experience the same problems with all of the variables. I've often said that what works in one person's shop may not work exactly in another. CA as a finish is not like making a cake. There is no one recipe that alway makes a great finish. We strive for excellence in out finishing together.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Originally posted by JimGo
<br />With all due respect to Don, I disagree about temperature. I do agree that humidity plays a role, but temps make a big difference. I have an unheated/uncooled outdoor "shop", and back in the fall I had a very large order. My finish quality was really good in the beginning, when the outside temperatures were 50-70 degrees while I was working (in-shop temp was even warmer, just due to me being in there, and the fact that it's a small shop). Toward the end of the order, the temps weren't getting much above freezing outside, and in my shop it probably barely hit 50 degrees. The finish on those pens wasn't anywhere near as glossy, despite more time spent applying the finish, sanding, etc. I see that you're in Colorado, so I'd guess that for you, humidity is less of a factor, but that temperature may be playing a role in your outcomes.

I used to sand to 12000 grit MM, then apply the CA, then re-sand. For most woods, I now sand to 400-600 grit sandpaper, then apply several coats of CA to even everything out, then MM.
Click to expand...
 
has anyone else had the problem with the glue drying with a different look than when it was applied (like the glue somehow got rougher as it dried? maybe i'm running the lathe too fast)? would you just recommend putting more coats on until it looks like it should??

also, i know there are far too many variables to determine an exact answer for this, but roughly how long does it take for a coat of CA to air dry? also, should this be done with the lathe running or still?
 
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />How cold is your garage? I think Cav is correct, this time, but he doesn't know anything about cars.[:D][}:)] When I first started using CA, I tried to follow Fangar's method until I glued a piece of sandpaper to my finger.[:0][B)] I discovered that CA gets VERY hot when it cures. I altered his method just enough to eliminate that problem but other than that I followed his method and it worked great. Russ has mentioned putting on 2-3 coats of thin CA, then using MM and finally putting on a friction polish.

Also, what kind of CA are you using? You can't use the stuff the big box stores sell, you need high quality CA.
Click to expand...

ROTFLMAO!!!!!
 
I have never had CA glue dry without haveing to sand the surface before applying the next coat. The surface might be a high gloss, but it has a bumpy surface that has to be sanded.

No finish works very well below 60F. CA is no different.

My experience, from using CA glue in several different climates and shop locations, is that humidity has more of an effect on curing time than temperature. This has always seemed reasonable to me because water is an accelerator.

All finishes are affected by the pH of the air. Slightly alkyline with a pH above 7 will make CA cure faster, and a slightly acidic pH lower than 7 will make it slower. It follows that pollutants can have an effect on the cure time. It can be assumed that IF you can smell the air in your work area, or worse yet that you can see the air, it will have an effect on the finish.

Here in the clean air of North Idaho where my shop temperature is 65F today, and the outside Relative Humidity is 41%, the fastest CA glue will take about 3-minutes to cure in a thin film.

Rather than wait 3-minutes, I wait a full 1-minute before using the accelerator. That wait eliminates blooming and other problems, and a light squirt will keep it from being a problem on later coats of CA glue. I prefer the spray-can accelerator because it is milder, and possible to apply without getting too much. Sanding between coats of CA will remove enough of the residual accelerator to keep it from being a problem with the next coat.
 
Sounds to me like if it is visually changing to a white or opake(sp) color it is like when I first started and I was putting it on too thick. Now I do multipul coats of thin then a few thick.
 
so when you sand the first coat of CA is it normal to see scratch marks, etc... and that it becomes a, for lack of a better term, sandy looking surface? will the next coats fill in those scratches or rough looking surface or should it look glossy when through the necessary grits before applying your 2nd, 3rd, 4th coats?

maybe like Nolan said, I'm putting it on too thick. are we talking 2 drops per blank or just letting it run out while moving the applicator back and forth to even it out?
 
Not to advocate smoking (especially since I've quit for 6 months now), but the smoke directly from the end of the cigarette helps increase the cure time.
 
i successfully applied CA finish last night!

i think one of the main confusing things for me was that i thought you had to hold the tip of the glue on the wood and spread with a towel underneath. this time, i tried applying the glue to the towel and then applying to the blank and this worked very, very well. much easier to apply a thin coat that will dry in a reasonable amount of time. i think i was putting it on WAY too thick... and every time i sanded a coat of CA, the only way i found to make it look nice again was by applying another coat of it...

i used a combination of fangar's method and what i thought felt/looked right and it turned out real nice. i can't for the life of me remember exactly what i did but i'll try to write it down next time so i don't have to trial and error again!

thanks all for your help!
 
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