"Troop" pen design

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ed4copies

ed4copies

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I have been discussing this with Dave D in Milwaukee for some time. I think it is time to call on the "collective wisdom" of the IAP for input.

We (all penmakers) have been making lots of "Pens for the troops"--in several styles and sizes, etc. But, nearly always they are "cross refill"--7mm.
Why? Because the uniform pocket is narrow.

So, the other day, I saw a young man in an urban camo uniform in the grocery store. I took the opportunity to thank him for serving our country--he looked shocked!! But, I also told him that I make pens and we have frequent discussions about the style that would fit best in his uniform pocket. He showed me the pocket (actually 3 or 4 slots on the top of another pocket) he has for pens. He asked me why we continue to put clips on the pens, as they just get in the way of pushing the pen in the pocket.

So, since there are many military and ex-military on IAP----can we design the "perfect troop pen"???

Size, "click" or twist, clip or no clip, best refill that will not leak on the uniform, etc!!!

Thanks for those who input!!

ED
 
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Great idea, Ed. Here's my input:

I still think the clip is best, as the recipient will not always be wearing his/her utilities. That said, the clip should not have a ball at the bottom and should be simple in design -- think Cigar pen clips or Sierra style clips.

The pen should be 7 or 8 mm max to fit in the pocket slots.

Twist is better to avoid noises in meetings (I had one CO who would 'dismiss' attendees who incessantly clicked their pens).

I would try to avoid 'bright shiny' components to prevent the sun glinting off the center bands, clips, nibs, etc. in combat-type situations. So perhaps 'longwood' styles in Gun Metal or Black Matte finishes might be ideal.

Stylus? More and more troops are using tablets and smartphones, so a stylus might be good. I'm thinking of something like the Tecra with the new style stylus tip.
 
FWIW

ed4copies said:
Size, "click" or twist, clip or no clip, best refill that will not leak on the uniform, etc!!!

Thanks for those who input!!

ED
Click to expand...

TL:DR - No bigger than a slimmer cigar style, click, clip, with a Parker style refill.

I'll chime in from the Marine perspective, at least mine. Most of my 14 years have been in a joint service environment so I've been around all the uniforms, even pre-digitization. Since the tri-color camo used to only have the one tiny little pen pocket IN the right breast pocket that would explain why a 7mm was popular.

Size:
A) This is largely going to be preference dependent but the Army and Air Force then to go for a Trimline/Toni Twist size for their external pockets. However I have sold pens, and seen pens, carried as I will explain in the next paragraph, Marine and Navy.

B) If it's not a desk pen every Marine and Sailor carries their pens in the little flap of material between the buttons and button holes. It's a nice little hide hole.

Click/Twist: Will be preference but here is my thoughts.
A) Click - easier to advance the refill on all the short notice "Sign here" events. Noise isn't a factor unless you are a nervous person. Of course many of the meetings I attend I have a bolt action pen out and imagine all sorts of inappropriate things towards those that don't know brevity, how to brief, or use Microsoft products for other than their intended uses (excel is not a good calendar...). For me, hearing and feeling the click gives me the satisfaction of knowing the ink is there without looking. And as always being able to use a pen one handed with ease (yes a twist can be but not as easy nor as quick) is always good.

B) Twist - I do carry one or two twist (I carry many pens and display them proudly but I also have a lanyard on at most times that they hang from so I am the odd duck). Twists are nice and simple but haven't been very conducive to easy use in uniform nor quick use. Unless it's a 7mm style pen then you will always have to worry about one of us Hulk Smashing the twist mechanism. Yes most can be remedied by some loctite but if you want these pens to be used and kept then you will want someone in the military to easily refill it themselves. Not a single one I've worked with has wanted a Sierra style or any finial twist that doesn't have another way to access the refill. So if this is the choice I'd go for an Aero or Gatsby style (I know there is a Sierra or the Le Roi ones that unscrew in the front for a refill and mitigate this issue).

Clip - I don't know why someone would complain about the clip. The pen will not be quite so easy to get at if it doesn't have one unless it's quite a long pen. Plus, nothing too disparaging against the service member you spoke with, but if he can't get a pen into that pocket then he really needs to rethink what pen he is putting there. Is it a full size Majestic? If so then keep the clip and put it in the aforementioned spot between the button flap.

Ink:
A) Cross style - easy to use. Won't leak that I've seen but more Cross style skip than Parkers (my experience though). Easy and cheap refill.

B) Parker style - these are your money. Especially if you get the Schmidt ones. I know they are more expensive than the free ones that come with the kits but you will be appreciated that much more for the smooth writing they give.

C) Roller Ball - No dice here unless it is to be a desk pen. I know you can make a click or twist of these but if they touch the uniform then the ink leaks. Plus they usually have a cap and these almost always unscrew enough for the pen to fall. No bueno.

D) Fountain - Same as C) verbatim.

That's my 85 cents worth (adjusted for inflation).

And just an aside, I'm totally willing to receive a few for the Marines I'm about to go forward with. I plan on making some for them myself if/when I get time but family first at the moment.
 
Clip - I don't know why someone would complain about the clip. The pen will not be quite so easy to get at if it doesn't have one unless it's quite a long pen. Plus, nothing too disparaging against the service member you spoke with, but if he can't get a pen into that pocket then he really needs to rethink what pen he is putting there. Is it a full size Majestic? If so then keep the clip and put it in the aforementioned spot between the button flap.

The young man I spoke with was carrying a very "standard issue Bic"--clearly he was NOT trying to impress anyone, but this was where he kept HIS pen.
 
This thread may help with ideas. Also talking with other service members not all uniforms are the same and not everyone puts their pen in the same place. I was thinking about keeping the outside no more than 10mm, a longer taper on the tip so it goes in the pocket easier, parker refill, and keeping it as short as possible. I've also been told by soldiers and their families that not everything sent to them has to be red, white, and blue. I have also seen how hard it can be for the ones at home. I was thinking of casting blanks so 2 pens can be made from one blank, making the pair and sending them together so the soldier can send one back to a family member of friend.
 
I carry a slimline pro-8mm tube. It fits just right. Anything bigger would be too snug (at least in a flight suit). I like clicks and clips. One hand operation for the click is nice. Clips keep the pen from going down deep into the pen pocket and becoming a pain to get out. I changed out the gel cartridge for the other ( Parker style I think? Or is it cross? ). The first gel absorbed into my uniform.:mad:
I know your trying to design the ideal pen but most will be thrilled with any hand turned pen. Thanks for asking.
 
I'm ex-navy and got out about the time they stopped using sail on the ships... or at least seems that long ago... but the pen was never much of an issue with us/me...my rating was radio operator and mostly I sat at a desk... In a dress enlisted uniform or even the undress blue, there wasn't a pocket to carry a pen.. most of us (at least in my circle) even had to get a special wallet that folded and we wore that over the top of the 13 button pants....when we were in dungaree's, the dungaree shirt pocket was much like a regular shirt and almost any kind of pen fit... the most convenient place to carry a pen was behind my right ear. In boot camp, we carried our pens in our leggings.

The troops that are all front line now in the BDU's have an entirely different problem which in truth I know little or nothing about.
 
TellicoTurning said:
I'm ex-navy and got out about the time they stopped using sail on the ships... or at least seems that long ago... but the pen was never much of an issue with us/me...my rating was radio operator and mostly I sat at a desk... In a dress enlisted uniform or even the undress blue, there wasn't a pocket to carry a pen.. most of us (at least in my circle) even had to get a special wallet that folded and we wore that over the top of the 13 button pants....when we were in dungaree's, the dungaree shirt pocket was much like a regular shirt and almost any kind of pen fit... the most convenient place to carry a pen was behind my right ear. In boot camp, we carried our pens in our leggings.

The troops that are all front line now in the BDU's have an entirely different problem which in truth I know little or nothing about.
Click to expand...

Hmmm - I wore 13 buttons also. Dress blue jumpers had a brest pocket which technically we were not allowed to carry anything in....but they would let you keep your liberty card there. Undress blues the breast pocket was too short to carry a pen in unless it was real short. Ditto on Undress whites.

Mostly on the ship I used what you would think of as 'desk' pens because that's were they were kept when not in use....but that was even before your time.

I personally would have preferred a click for one hand operation.

I would have looked for 8 - 10 mm size and the good parker refills but they do have the disadvantage of running out of ink faster than the stock refills.

I think they would be sensitive to anything that might stain the pockets too.

I think clip/no clip is a function of individual taste. Slimlines without clips are long enough to work well in the special pen pockets which (this is just my guess) are designed to fit BIC, Papermate or one of the many substitutes for them.
 
I have to admit...the clip gets in the way for our pan pockets. A trim Sierra does well and in "sing in a hurry" situations...just keep the pen out. Carrying a redwood slim and an acrylic Sierra EB at the moment, but the replacements in my Go bag are disposable gels and so on. Some pan pocket lengths vary, so a clip may be needed in some uniforms and not others.
 
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I guess I also forgot the uniform of be day type. If it's utilities or flight suit then my previous post applies. If it's service or dress then no pen applies unless they either hand carry it, attach it to a lanyard, or have some sort of folio that they carry. But most places I've been it's utilities 4 days out of a normal work week. All bets are off if you are in the NCR.

Of course there are many on here that have spent more time retired than I have alive... :) and I can only hope to fill the shoes they left.
 
I've been racking my brain trying to remember what I used to carry before my dad made me my first pen and got me hooked on this crack! Zebra pen (F-301 Stainless). You make one like this, size, refill (Zebra would be awesome but I know that would put it in custom component/kitless realm), clip, click, and style (metal is great because it's durable, it may scratch and ding but it won't crack, break, or melt like some of the materials we use).

27110PROD.jpg

You make that and I'd wager that almost 90% of the military I work with would praise you forever.

I will caveat it it with any pen I have seen fellow service members receive has always been cherished. Some just don't last long in some of the more rough conditions and are then retired to a cup in an office somewhere.
 
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Ed,
I mainly wear Navy Working Uniform (BDU style) and have had the same designer/European pen in my right breast pocket for 3 years. I just recently made myself a twist bullet pen based on a 10mm tube that is quickly replacing old faithful. Both have military rank on the clips. I will tell you that if those clips fit a click bullet, I'd definitely switch to click. Wearing service or dress uniforms, I place my pen in my right pants pocket. Anything larger than a 10mm is just too big and uncomfortable for me. I really don't think there is a "perfect" pen when it comes to finish. At least not for me. Then again, I'm not knocking down doors, or sneaking around at night either where bright and shiny might get you shot. Bottom line for me is 10mm or less and I'd prefer click over twist. I hope this helps Ed.

Dave
Senior Chief, USN
 
Smitty37 said:
TellicoTurning said:
I'm ex-navy and got out about the time they stopped using sail on the ships... or at least seems that long ago... but the pen was never much of an issue with us/me...my rating was radio operator and mostly I sat at a desk... In a dress enlisted uniform or even the undress blue, there wasn't a pocket to carry a pen.. most of us (at least in my circle) even had to get a special wallet that folded and we wore that over the top of the 13 button pants....when we were in dungaree's, the dungaree shirt pocket was much like a regular shirt and almost any kind of pen fit... the most convenient place to carry a pen was behind my right ear. In boot camp, we carried our pens in our leggings.

The troops that are all front line now in the BDU's have an entirely different problem which in truth I know little or nothing about.
Click to expand...

Hmmm - I wore 13 buttons also. Dress blue jumpers had a brest pocket which technically we were not allowed to carry anything in....but they would let you keep your liberty card there. Undress blues the breast pocket was too short to carry a pen in unless it was real short. Ditto on Undress whites.

Mostly on the ship I used what you would think of as 'desk' pens because that's were they were kept when not in use....but that was even before your time.

I personally would have preferred a click for one hand operation.

I would have looked for 8 - 10 mm size and the good parker refills but they do have the disadvantage of running out of ink faster than the stock refills.

I think they would be sensitive to anything that might stain the pockets too.

I think clip/no clip is a function of individual taste. Slimlines without clips are long enough to work well in the special pen pockets which (this is just my guess) are designed to fit BIC, Papermate or one of the many substitutes for them.
Click to expand...

Smitty,
You're right about the dress blues.. the pocket was about 2 or 3 inches across and probably not much deeper... the only thing I carried was the ID card, the liberty card and sometimes off base I would put change there... I was pretty skinny when I was in and my uniform was tailored tight... tight enough that if I got it bunched up under the arms, I usually had to have a buddy pull it down... same with the trousers... tight to the knees and flared from there.
My undress blues were a little less tailored... the whites were also a little tailored, but not so much.... I didn't carry a pen in my uniform though ever...

And like you, my preference is a click pen in the 8 MM size...
 
TellicoTurning said:
Smitty37 said:

Smitty,
You're right about the dress blues.. the pocket was about 2 or 3 inches across and probably not much deeper... the only thing I carried was the ID card, the liberty card and sometimes off base I would put change there... I was pretty skinny when I was in and my uniform was tailored tight... tight enough that if I got it bunched up under the arms, I usually had to have a buddy pull it down... same with the trousers... tight to the knees and flared from there.
My undress blues were a little less tailored... the whites were also a little tailored, but not so much.... I didn't carry a pen in my uniform though ever...

And like you, my preference is a click pen in the 8 MM size...
Click to expand...
My dress blues (and my "liberty/inspection" whites) were tailor made - and pretty snug as well. I did keep the 13 buttons regulation though - except for a back pocket and silk lining. It's fun to remember being able to wear clothes that tight an have no bulges showing anywhere.
Click to expand...
 
since I started making pens a few years back, I've always carried and used my own. Through deployments and at home, to test the durability and ease of use. I don't like selling ones that I've found to be substandard in quality to those I work with, and have seen quite a few degrade very very quickly.

The marksman falcon is my pen of choice, in brushed finish. coupled with an extremely durable blank, its dang near indestructable. It fits in the uniforms pen pockets and the clip doesn't get sprung like others.

For a click pen, I would think a slimline pro size pen in either stainless steel or a T/N finish would be best. To make a pen that sailors like, I have been modifying the zebra F-402 with great results
 
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