Jgrden
Member
To your knowledge, is there a legal issue with asking a purchaser to give you their phone number when using a credit card? State of California. 
TRANSACTIONS-PHONE NUMBERS
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GaryMGg
Member
When I ran a large mail-order operation before the internet was public and everything was online,
we required the buyer to provide their billing address and the phone number at that address.
If we had any doubt as to the legitimacy of the order, we would verify the billing address with the credit card company and
verify the phone number with 911.
Sometimes, we called to verify the order was real.
There was a lot of phone CC theft and we avoided getting stung.
Many of our sales exceeded $1,000.00
I couldn't have cared if it was legal or not; we were in business to be
profitable and did what made sense to protect our interests.
we required the buyer to provide their billing address and the phone number at that address.
If we had any doubt as to the legitimacy of the order, we would verify the billing address with the credit card company and
verify the phone number with 911.
Sometimes, we called to verify the order was real.
There was a lot of phone CC theft and we avoided getting stung.
Many of our sales exceeded $1,000.00
I couldn't have cared if it was legal or not; we were in business to be
profitable and did what made sense to protect our interests.
GoatRider
Member
I'll bet you verified it with 411, not 911.
LagniappeRob
Member
Check out Ca. Civil Code Section 1747.08
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (c), no person,
firm, partnership, association, or corporation that accepts credit
cards for the transaction of business shall do any of the following:
(1) Request, or require as a condition to accepting the credit
card as payment in full or in part for goods or services, the
cardholder to write any personal identification information upon the
credit card transaction form or otherwise.
(2) Request, or require as a condition to accepting the credit
card as payment in full or in part for goods or services, the
cardholder to provide personal identification information, which the
person, firm, partnership, association, or corporation accepting the
credit card writes, causes to be written, or otherwise records upon
the credit card transaction form or otherwise.
(3) Utilize, in any credit card transaction, a credit card form
which contains preprinted spaces specifically designated for filling
in any personal identification information of the cardholder.
(b) For purposes of this section "personal identification
information," means information concerning the cardholder, other than
information set forth on the credit card, and including, but not
limited to, the cardholder's address and telephone number.
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (c), no person,
firm, partnership, association, or corporation that accepts credit
cards for the transaction of business shall do any of the following:
(1) Request, or require as a condition to accepting the credit
card as payment in full or in part for goods or services, the
cardholder to write any personal identification information upon the
credit card transaction form or otherwise.
(2) Request, or require as a condition to accepting the credit
card as payment in full or in part for goods or services, the
cardholder to provide personal identification information, which the
person, firm, partnership, association, or corporation accepting the
credit card writes, causes to be written, or otherwise records upon
the credit card transaction form or otherwise.
(3) Utilize, in any credit card transaction, a credit card form
which contains preprinted spaces specifically designated for filling
in any personal identification information of the cardholder.
(b) For purposes of this section "personal identification
information," means information concerning the cardholder, other than
information set forth on the credit card, and including, but not
limited to, the cardholder's address and telephone number.
LagniappeRob
Member
As I read it (I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV)...
they surely don't want it written on the form at the very least.
they surely don't want it written on the form at the very least.
Texatdurango
Member
No lawyer here either but it APPEARS to me that the state of California wants to do everything humanly possible for credit card thieves to get away with theft.
I think if someone refused to show me some ID and provide a phone number to contact them in case something went wrong with processing their transaction, I think refusing to sell them a pen would be the least I could do. I think an honest person would have nothing to hide.
Another example of civil liberties going way too far.
John, Why do you ask, have you had customers refuse their numbers?
I think if someone refused to show me some ID and provide a phone number to contact them in case something went wrong with processing their transaction, I think refusing to sell them a pen would be the least I could do. I think an honest person would have nothing to hide.
Another example of civil liberties going way too far.
John, Why do you ask, have you had customers refuse their numbers?
In California, it is just possible that is exactly what they do want. That would also help Credit Card counterfitters.
MattTheHat
Member
I read it that the state of Kalifornia simply doesn't want that info written on the card slip, which could be lost. I'm guessing its a step taken to reduce (in their minds) identity theft. I'd hate to know how many thousands of card slips I've had customers sign over the years. I don't recall ever writing any additional customer info on any of those slips, so it makes you wonder who they think they're really helping.
Just another crazy bit of useless legislation from cereal land.
-Matt
Just another crazy bit of useless legislation from cereal land.
-Matt
Jgrden
Member
You hit the nail on the head. This code will help form policy in our Co-op. It seems reasonable to think the person working the sale can ask and feel satisfied with the information given to them by the customer BUT should not record any information. We had to go through tests with one credit card company who made sure we did not keep charge slips in storage. We dumped them in favor of GpPayment/Intuit. Let them take the responsibility.
tbroye
Member
Being a Californian all my life I would respond, but it would end up being political.
Fred
Member
The following will not work if you do not have the credit card in your hands ...
I NEVER sign the back of any of my credit cards. Instead I write quite clearly in permanent ink DEMAND PHOTO ID. When I give a vendor my card and they do not ask I politely (most times) give them my drivers license. Many respond, 'I don't need that' and I tell them to check the back of the card.
If I have to go to the trouble of teaching the individual to check ID then I go to the trouble of going to the manager and telling then a thing or two. When I get home I call the corporate office and read them the riot act as well.
My vote ... put photographs of the user on the card ... SAMS does that when they issue a membership card so it can't be all that difficult.
I NEVER sign the back of any of my credit cards. Instead I write quite clearly in permanent ink DEMAND PHOTO ID. When I give a vendor my card and they do not ask I politely (most times) give them my drivers license. Many respond, 'I don't need that' and I tell them to check the back of the card.
If I have to go to the trouble of teaching the individual to check ID then I go to the trouble of going to the manager and telling then a thing or two. When I get home I call the corporate office and read them the riot act as well.
My vote ... put photographs of the user on the card ... SAMS does that when they issue a membership card so it can't be all that difficult.
penhead
Local Chapter Leader
So, if you are a working slock and have a credit card, don't ya think chances are you have a home/mortgage/aprtment...and if so, then your address/telephone number is printed for public in the phone book..??
(b) For purposes of this section "personal identification
information," means information concerning the cardholder, other than
information set forth on the credit card, and including, but not
limited to, the cardholder's address and telephone number.
(b) For purposes of this section "personal identification
information," means information concerning the cardholder, other than
information set forth on the credit card, and including, but not
limited to, the cardholder's address and telephone number.
While most stores will not do it, your card can be refused if not signed. Every credit card I have and every one I can remember seeing, contains the statement "Not valid unless signed"
At least some credit card issuers will do that, Bank of America comes to mind a one - I think it is free.
GaryMGg
Member
Yes, but it was a good typo! :biggrin: The facts remain; we did and I'm proud of it.
I'll share this: we prevented numerous CC fraud transactions.
In one instance, we spoke to a woman who owned the card. She called her son into the room and demanded to know if he tried to use her card to buy our products.
On another occasion, we worked undercover to ship a package to the NYC police care of UPS and they captured a felon using our package.
I thoroughly enjoyed helping catch some thieving dirtbags.
LagniappeRob
Member
Since this thread has detoured slightly into the area of fraud prevention... I have the joy of taking transactions over the internet in a fairly high risk category (web hosting). I moved all of the processing over to paypal because I didn't want to deal with the PCI compliance hassles of processing CCs directly. That doesn't alleviate the risk of fraud orders though. I use a service called Maxmind to help with that. Maxmind does a few things. It can check your customer's billing address against where they are located (IP based geo-location - not perfect with proxies, etc.), as well as check BIN to country, etc. and develops a fraud risk score. You can even setup 3 tiers: low tier - automatic ok, middle tier - phone authorization, high risk tier - denied. The middle tier is the interesting one. They take the phone number entered and call it automatically. Their computer tells them a 4 digit code, and they have to enter it to move on in the order process. This at least tells you that they gave a valid phone number... I wouldn't do business online without it.
Jgrden
Member
Good point. But what is a "slock"?
However, we have allot of tourists who live out of the area and buy pens. Having a phone book for every location would require a ware house. But, if a non-profit organization cannot record phone numbers but chooses to write them down on their in-house invoices; are there privacy policies to be aware of??? How much information are we allowed to collect to allow prudent follow-up in case of a clerical error that needs to be cleared?
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GaryMGg
Member
Yea but my wonderful sister-in-law, whom I love more than anyone besides my wife and kids, still cuts the address off of envelopes before she throws them away so the address won't "fall into the wrong hands".....
nava1uni
Member
I must admit I am tired of people who don't live here slamming California.
That being said I live in California and do business here. I ask for telephone numbers all the time. I do not write the information on the credit slip and I do not keep them, the slips, past a certain time until the sale goes through. If I want personal information for future sales I put in in my computer. Most credit card merchants require the first 3 numbers of the address, the zip code and the phone number if you are doing business without the processing machine, like at a fair without electricity or internet accessibility.
Haynie
Member
These are exactly the reasons I use SQUARE. I run the card and it is either approved or not on the spot. I ask for ID if it is not a known customer. I am done after that. No need for phone numbers.
The Penguin
Member
unless they've changed their policy, USPS will not accept a card that is not signed with the words "ask for ID" written on the strip
Why? The woes of CA are on national news almost daily, which is why so many have opinions about them.
Fred
Member
I have had at last count seven of the world's most accepted CC and every one of them is very plainly marked DEMAND PHOTO ID. I have yet to be refused nor looked down upon and at one time or the other I traveled all over the US, the Bahamma Islands, and down into the West Indies.
Now following my stroke from Dec 2006 I do little more than stand in my shower in my own home and there is absolutely no use for a CC there.
Now following my stroke from Dec 2006 I do little more than stand in my shower in my own home and there is absolutely no use for a CC there.
I didn't mean to imply that you WOULD be refused, I doubt that you ever will be....I pointed out that you can be.
sbell111
Member
Here's the problem with your plan:
The reason that you sign the back of your card is so that the seller can quickly take a look to see if the signature matches between your card and the slip. A seller who doesn't bother looking at the signature closely enough to know that you insist that he check's your DL, isn't going to ask for a DL and you will never 'teach' enough merchants that it is helpful if you get your cards stolen.
In my opinion, signing the card is greatly more helpful than a 'see ID' message.
Well! Well! Well! something we actually agree on. I don't know what the world is coming to.
Jgrden
Member
I am still ****ed of at Smitty for slamming California, but agree, you should sign your card. :biggrin:
Let's not start on Delaware and its liberal Corporate licensing.
John
:biggrin:Slam???? Nah, that wasn't a slam. You should hear what I have to say about California when I do slam them. Incidently, politically Delaware is about as blue and CA and has almost as many nutty laws.
I am still ****ed of at Smitty for slamming California, but agree, you should sign your card. :biggrin:
Let's not start on Delaware and its liberal Corporate licensing.
John
Glen Schumann
Member
Why should I provide my signature so a thief can practice forging it?
TellicoTurning
Member
I agree 1000% with this idea...Years ago when I lived in Marin County in the Bay area, I banked with a little local bank... this was before ATM cards, but if they are still around probably have same policy... when they issued me my credit card, it had my picture in the upper corner of the card and my thumb print on the back side in one corner....I thought it a good idea then and still do....
TellicoTurning
Member
Smitty,
You beat me to this post, but I believe you are correct... the cards are supposed to be signed and I have even had one merchant ask me to sign mine before they could/would accept it... which has a real logical to the situation... if I signed both the back of the card and the sales slip, the signatures would naturally match....
However, I've found that very few merchants even look at the back of a card... they just grab it and run it ... anxious to get that sale I guess.
I know that most stores do not check....but I had a WaWa that just yesterday did compare the signature on my card with the slip I signed.
Photo on the card is available from some if not most cards, it is probably not a big problem to get but might involve a little more hassel.
sbell111
Member
Because doing it your way doesn't have the effect that you are looking for. Further, by following the card issuers requirements, you are protected against loss should your card somehow get away from you.
TellicoTurning
Member
To get back to the poster's first question, I always ask for a phone number when I run a credit card... have never had a question from the customer. I use a knucklebuster and run cards manually, always get a zip code and phone number.