To those experienced with snow!

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Texatdurango

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Probably the strangest post I have ever made but I'm in new territory here and would like some advice!

A snow storm hit here starting wednesday morning and finally let up yesterday. Looks like more than a foot average but in places my drive was over 3' with the drifts and we have not left the house since wednesday afternoon, because the vehicles are stuck in the drive which angles down around the side of the house.

My questions:

1. I have heard that spreading salt on the driveway isn't that good and that there is something better, what is it and can it be applied on 2" or 3" of snow or does it have to be a thinner layer to be effective?

2. Lowes has several sizes if the little walk behind snow blowers, I believe they are Troy built. I shoveled parts of my drive and it appears that sometime between wednesday and friday, snow had melted under the snow causing a 1" layer of ice against the concrete surface. Do these little machines remove that ice build up as well or just the loose snow above it?

I'd rather not spend $500 - $800 only to find they leave the ice "crust" behind because that is what's causing me my problems right now.

Here is where the personal advice (your experience) comes in.... on the blowers are the features like moveable blower chutes and self propelled wheels really worth the extra money? I bought a self propelled mower once and ended up pushing it almost like the regular models so am leary about gadgets and claims.

Any "snow suggestions" are welcome, we love it here so far, love the scenery but aren't really thrilled about shoveling snow....... it's NOT as easy as it looks!

Thanks in advance.
 
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The b;ower will not remove the ice, salt is a good deicer but bad for the ground and there are chemical de-icers but I have never used one. Hopefully soemone has before but I know they use ice arounf Tahoe and it kills trees on the road side. Spreading sand helps with traction though once you get through to the ice.
 
George; Sounds like a perfect time to try out that new work shop!!!!!

Seriously; any snow blower will just blow snow, It will not get the ice. After running the snow blower and removing the snow, use Ice Melt on the ice. It helps if the sun is shining or the temp if above 32 degrees.

Try for a 2 stage snow blower. Look for tracks or chains for the blower. A blower will only handle snow as high as the top of the snow inlet.

With all the snow in the east, we haven't had a bit here in Harrisburg PA..... :frown:

Been skiing 4 times so far, but want real snow!
 
When you say you love it here..where's here? Do you expect to be getting snow like this regularly? If not, call a plow and have them do it for you...blowers or throwers will not remove the ice. Plows will scrape most of it away.

If you are going to get lots of snow in future, buy a toro.

We live in lake snow belt and we get lots of snow. I have a two stage thrower, self propelled with the joystick that mauves the shoot. It is one bad snow thrower. It can throw snow unto 45 feet(not that it's necessary)

These are the only machines that will remove that much snow. But there 1300$

Best of luck,

Grub
 
George:
You'd be better to buy the ice melting compounds. They are easier on your vehicles, lawn etc. than using salt.

The blower isn't likely to deal with the ice layer. If you go at it you might break the blower. A blower with a moveable chute is definitely the way to go as it allows you to direct the snow where you want it to go. I used to have one of the smaller blowers that wasn't self propelled but due to the amount of snow we get I purchased a larger self-propelled model with electric start (another very nice feature since when I was still working my wife would often have the lane way cleared out by the time I got home!!!!). I wouldn't buy another one that isn't self propelled since it helps you fight through the snow.

Good luck with the winter. We have actually lost most of our snow. We had 4-6 feet of it at the road but we've had temperatures in the low 50's and rain the past few days.

Michael
 
Welcome to winter George!

There are some ice melting products that are safer than others. I personally don't use any ice melt and use sand to add traction if it needs it, mostly because my driveway is about 500' long.

As for snow throwers, there are two types, single stage and two stage. Most single stage models are for if you get just 1 - 3 inches of light fluffy snow. They simply have a paddle system to "throw" the snow out of the way. Any heavy wet snow and they tend to struggle...so I don't use them.
The two stage systems have a auger system breaks up heavy snow drifts, then feeds them into the thrower paddle. They offer better features such as the self propelled wheels, movable chute, etc.. Those features work great! The self propelled wheels actually drive, you still may have to guide and steer, but they really do most of the work. The movable chute is great so you can direct the path of the thrown snow to where you want it.

As for Manufacturer brands, I personally have been using a Toro and love it, however Ariens is another great brand too.

Hope it helps!
 
If your driveway is concrete then the salt and some of the chemical deicers will cause the concrete to break up over time. Once you get the snow off and are down to the ice, there is a long handle scraper in the garden section of Lowe's with the rakes and such. Kind of looks like a large putty knife or something you would use on plaster. Use it to break up the ice. If you are lucky and it is beginning to melt between the ice and the driveway it will scrape and break up so it can be pushed to the sides of the driveway.

Clearing a snow and ice covered driveway is work. More heart attacks happen during this activity than almost any other. If you are not use to it or your cardiovascular health is in question, pace yourself and please do not over do it.
 
George,
The overwhelming majority ob blowers throw to about 45 feet.

Honda goes out to 60 because they overdrive their second stage to do so.
A few of the others may do so now as well, but that was what specs were when I spent a couple of months researching them
My driveway is a on a downwind slope area, and so I get high drifts due to the air current vortexing the snow into my driveway. This was why I learned about snowblowers and researched before buying one.
You want something that will have more throwing capacity than one of the little Toro electric shovels to get it away from where you are clearing so that if you get hit with a second or more storms, you have room to drop the subsequent snow. None of the blowers will remove ice, mostly because of weight needed and structure behind that weight.

As for the ice, the best I have ever found is an ice-melting compound maid by Mortons, the salt peaple, which is a salt-free product

Jerry
 
Snow and ice

Oh George – didn't someone tell you this could happen before you moved? :frown::frown:

Snow is one thing, ice is another.

Salt (sodium chloride) is not good, but until something better comes along, this is THE product to use. The industry is also producing calcium chloride (also a salt). Some say the fertilizer is effective, but very little effectiveness compared to salt. Salt is a corrosive agent, harmful to concrete and autos. Don't know why the environmentalists don't discuss flushing tons of salt into streams (makes brackish water). For traction only, try spreading sand.

If you know a snow is predicted, best to lay down a thin layer of salt BEFORE the start of the snow. This tends to keep the snow/ice from bonding to the paving. Once the snow/ice bonds, it can be nearly impossible to remove. By the way, a shoveled sidewalk is much slicker than an unshoveled sidewalk (unless salt is spread).

I have shoveled snow for over 50 years, and expect to keep doing so. I have a small snow thrower, but it poops out quickly. Troy-bilt is a great brand, and probably offered in your area because the snow-throwers need to be hefty. It's either use machinery, or hand-shovel. Don't buy too weak a snow-thrower or you will be wasting money. Have it demonstrated in 3' of snow. I now have a snow-plow for my truck, but this doesn't do sidewalks.

Try to remove snow before feet or tires get on it - they pack it down and make removal very difficult.

As as you have seen, snow turns to ice with time. Ice is much harder to remove, so I shovel the snow as soon as it falls and never let the ice form. Unlikely the snow-thrower will remove ice.

Salt is only effective when you have scraped to the paving, and only above 15°F (some bags claim 5°F but I have not seen this proved yet).

Under your circumstances, I would use the August rule. If you do nothing, the snow and ice will be gone by August.

Until you get self-sufficient, best to hire a company to remove the snow/ice and get you going. You really could do yourself in trying this yourself.

Best wishes, Jim
 
from snowy Boston with 45 years experience
1. salt is fine
2. small blowers are a waste and will not pick up the ice
3. if your area is prone to snow I would buy a blower with adjustable chute ( easier to direct away from things you do not want to hit. And yes to self propelled....much easier when heavy wet snow (Although I imagine that AZ is prone to lighter drier snow) the drive hold up with the moste ever needed a tightening of a belt.

have fun
 
Texatdurango said:
Probably the strangest post I have ever made but I'm in new territory here and would like some advice!

A snow storm hit here starting wednesday morning and finally let up yesterday. Looks like more than a foot average but in places my drive was over 3' with the drifts and we have not left the house since wednesday afternoon, because the vehicles are stuck in the drive which angles down around the side of the house.

My questions:

1. I have heard that spreading salt on the driveway isn't that good and that there is something better, what is it and can it be applied on 2" or 3" of snow or does it have to be a thinner layer to be effective?

2. Lowes has several sizes if the little walk behind snow blowers, I believe they are Troy built. I shoveled parts of my drive and it appears that sometime between wednesday and friday, snow had melted under the snow causing a 1" layer of ice against the concrete surface. Do these little machines remove that ice build up as well or just the loose snow above it?

I'd rather not spend $500 - $800 only to find they leave the ice "crust" behind because that is what's causing me my problems right now.

Here is where the personal advice (your experience) comes in.... on the blowers are the features like moveable blower chutes and self propelled wheels really worth the extra money? I bought a self propelled mower once and ended up pushing it almost like the regular models so am leary about gadgets and claims.

Any "snow suggestions" are welcome, we love it here so far, love the scenery but aren't really thrilled about shoveling snow....... it's NOT as easy as it looks!

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I'm a native Floridian who has lived in upstate New York for 40 years, so I've acquired some experience in dealing with the stuff.

1. The best way to deal with snow is to either shovel it or use a plow/blower. If you don't get snow often (unfortunately, history doesn't always help us predict the future - weather patterns are definitely changing), then a shovel is the best option. Yes, it's work, but to be quite frank, it's also satisfying work. Just take your time. Get the widest shovel you can find - the kind with the 'dog-leg' handle helps save your back - and spray the blade with WD-40 before using it (each time).

2. Troy-Built is a great brand - they used to be located just across 'town' in Troy, NY. It's not nearly as famous as Toro, Deere or Husqvarna, but they do make good equipment. But if you get a blower, it's false economy opt for a low-end 'snow-thrower'. They may be fine to clear a deck or porch, but they won't do much in heavy snow on a large driveway. If you choose that option, go for the full 'two stage' version that has both a traction drive and an auger to expel the show. Spray inside the machine with WD-40 efore using it - that will prevent an internal ice buildup that constipates everything.

3. Ice-melt is best reserved for ice. Keep in mind that the principle behind using salt is that the addition of of a salt to water lowers the temperature at which it freezes. That's what happens in an ice-cream churn - the salt lowers the freezing temperature so that you are able to freeze at something well below 32 deg F. But it still freezes. So adding salt to snow will allow the snow to melt, but then the salt-laden water will then refreeze at the lower temperature and will be even harder to deal with.

4. Salt is the best of a selection of poor options to deal with ice. Actually, the best way to deal with ice is to scrape or chip it away, but that's real work and can wreck your driveway. Applying salt will melt the snow on a sunny day, and is especially good if you have a blacktop driveway such that the black surface will be heated by the sun. In that case, the combination of salt and sun will melt the snow, and the water can run off (or evaporate) before it refreezes at a lower temperature. Salt also provides traction to help with walking or driving.

5. Salt comes in a variety of forms. Ordinary sodium chloride is the cheap stuff - it works OK, but it can also do a job on your lawn and any plants in the area. You can also find potassium and calcium chloride versions. The Both work marginally better to deal with ice, and don't kill vegetation. One comes in small white granules, while the other is in chunks and feels 'oily' - I don't remember which is which, but the granules are easier to use.

6. Snowblowers don't do anything at all about ice - they simply ride on top of the icy layer.

The best option may be to sit inside with a cup of coffee and watch the sun melt the snow.
 
Rock salt will melt the snow and ice, but refreeze after it hits about 30 degrees. It will rust your vehicle something fierce. It will make stains on concrete, then eat it.

The artificial 'salts' out there, like Jerry said Morton makes a great one, keep ice gone well below zero degree F.
 
my first recommendation is to find a teenager that want to make some money and turn them loose.

Second, salt. I use the same blue bag of salt that people get for their water softeners. It's cheap and already cracked up like rock salt. It also won't poison any animals like some of the chemical varieties will. If your driveway is concrete, make sure you don't get any big chunks laying on it. Works wonders.

snow blowers/throwers don't work well in deep or wet snow and as mentioned won't do anything on the ice crust if you have it. Blades on the front of a tractor will scrap most away, but depending on how hard the ice is, may not be able to break it loose from the surface of the driveway.

I'm fortunate in that the guy that clears our street lives two doors down from me, and I have a standing order that anything over 4 inches is his. Cost me $20 per event for him to clear it with his bobcat.
 
I avoid any kind of rock salt because it does eat things - i.e. concrete and cars. Note, they do make ice melt stuff (costs more) that is less corrosive.

If you don't get much snow, I would not invest in the expanse and maintenance of a snow blower. Otherwise, the best advice I ever got was "Get the biggest you can afford."

My experience in AZ is that it is usually sunny over 330 days a year. If you move the snow off of the ice, the sun will do its job and melt it, even if it is around freezing.

Just go back inside and do some turning. It will melt eventually.... : )
 
Russianwolf said:
my first recommendation is to find a teenager that want to make some money and turn them loose.

Second, salt. I use the same blue bag of salt that people get for their water softeners. It's cheap and already cracked up like rock salt. It also won't poison any animals like some of the chemical varieties will. If your driveway is concrete, make sure you don't get any big chunks laying on it. Works wonders.

snow blowers/throwers don't work well in deep or wet snow and as mentioned won't do anything on the ice crust if you have it. Blades on the front of a tractor will scrap most away, but depending on how hard the ice is, may not be able to break it loose from the surface of the driveway.

I'm fortunate in that the guy that clears our street lives two doors down from me, and I have a standing order that anything over 4 inches is his. Cost me $20 per event for him to clear it with his bobcat.
Click to expand...

Mike, not sure what snow thrower you used, but there are a many of times where I go out with 12 - 18" of snow on the ground (which means there can be up to 2' of ultra heavy compacted snow in front of the drive way) and my 2 stage Toro works fine. There was 1 time when it struggled and it was due to a huge snow storm that then changed to rain about 1/2 into it. So I was literally throwing slush, but even then it did the job.
 
just relaying what the guys at at the dealership told me. If they gave up a $500+ sale on bad advice, it's on them.

My neighbors bobcat at $20 per event makes it irrelevant to me now.
 
I forgot to mention, If I'm shoveling snow, I use a standard flat shovel, not the big snow shovels.

Reason, snow is heavy, I'd rather move less and save my back and arms than move more and hurt myself as I've done before. (threw my back out and couldn't finish the job).
 
witz1976 said:
LOL well you are in WV, you guys get what 4" of snow tops:biggrin: They must have been showing you a single stage model...which yes they are right.
Click to expand...

4 foot last year. Hoping for a repeat.
 

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If snow is a once a year thing..just shovel it. If it's common, a snowblower is nice and you really want it to be self propelled. Snow is not like grass. Snowblower won't get rid of bed of ice. Salt will damage concrete, but not asphalt. On concrete it will make it look like bad acne, pits the cement. I have a front end loader, that's the only good way to cut through a layer of ice that can't be salted. If you could salt, throwing salt on top of 3" or more of snow won't do much good, the salt will just sink through to the bottom, make a mush under the snow and then re-freeze when the salt solution becomes more diluted.

Drive slower in snow and ice. When you see some lights followed by a huge blizzard barreling down behind you..pull over to the side and slow down even more, because that's me hammering on by! :biggrin:
 
Instead of using salt, I always use ashes from the wood stove or fireplace. It eats the ice, gives great traction, and the price is right.
 
I clear my house and roughly 7 neighbors houses each snowfall.
My advice is buy the bigdest snow blower you can afford, i had the little ones and a big one last year. The little ones are good for the powder storms. I ended up selling the small ones off to get an Ariens. I I currently have a craftsman 9hp and an Ariens 30" commercial unit I prefer the Ariens it is heavier but i also believe it is built 10 times better. I paid 1500 for the Ariens but will worth it You will likely need to go behind with a shovel for a quick touch up but it is nothing major. I would get a commercial machine because they are built better, look for local dealer (most commercial lawn mower sales places sell snow blowers, I bought my ariens from speedway sales in Wisconsin and had it trucked in, took less than a week to arrive, very nice people to work with)

For salt it is personal preference, I use it sometimes and others i dont Best one i have found is Roadrunner ice melt from lowes or HD

Biggest key is getting it down so that when the sun comes out the THIN (1/8-1/4 MAX) that you have left melts you may have to go out and scrape it if there is more than that but the more blacktop you have exposed the better you are
 
Having lived around snow for 60 years, I'm impressed with the plethora of great advice here. We don't get much of it here on the southern island, but occassionally we get surprised -- four feet just over a decade ago, of heavy snow much like wet concrete, that truly paralyzed the city for several days.

There is not much I can add to all the great tips except one: try to shovel the snow often instead of just once (per snow event), and try to shovel it before anyone drives or even walks on it. The pressure of tires or feet, compresses the snow below, makes it stick to the driveway, form ice, and about fifty times harder to shovel.

Good luck....!
 
This one may take care of your ice and snow



454 cubic inch big block Chevrolet V8 produces 412 horsepower
 

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salt does little for ice, but works well on snow. We buy the -30 stuff, as it works better than plain salt, and doesn't kill the grass or plants (and works most of the year).

Get rid of the snow, and use the salt on the chunky snow/salt at the bottom - let it 'cook', and try it again later. I use a big iron bar to chip away at the thick ice.

The cheap snowblowers just throw light, fluffy snow - the type you can easily shovel. A bigger, gas powered snowblower is the answer, but not unless you need to do it often. I live in the Great White North, and I don't have one. (But I'm still relatively young, too). A snowblower would be nice when the plow shoves that concrete snow/salt up against the cars, though!

Don't hurt yourself, and don't overexert. Snow is the silent killer up here (a few die from shoveling every so often, due to heart issues)...
 
Show Low is a great place! My late father-in-law was mayor of Eager (30 miles East). For those who don't know, Eager (pop. 6000) has a domed football stadium for the high school!
2 stage snow blower is the best kind to have. Get one with the movable chute, it is well worth it. It works best if you clear the snow before it has a chance to melt and turn into ice. Reqular rock salt will ruin concrete. I suggest using the Heet Ice Melt that they sell at Home Depot. Also, gravel scattered on the ice will help with traction and melting. If you are a skier, Sunrise is a nice little area run by the Apaches.

Tomas
 
I too have a snowblower and concur with what has been already said. As for ice, I sprinkle play sand all over the driveway on top of the ice. It doesn't melt it, but gives me enough traction. It is cheap, won't harm my dogs, and won't damage my driveway.
 
I'm working up a sweat reading this stuff.

We don't get enough snow to buy snow shovel, let alone a machine. In the event snow (in any amount) is forecast, we just panic and go to the store to stock up on bread, milk, and beer and pray that it snows enough to justify calling in sick the next morning.
 
What is this snow stuff you guys are talking about? :biggrin:

It was 60 degrees here today and I was cold! You can keep your white stuff and snow blowers!
 
MesquiteMan said:
What is this snow stuff you guys are talking about? :biggrin:

It was 60 degrees here today and I was cold! You can keep your white stuff and snow blowers!
Click to expand...

Come on Curtis, it's not ALL bad! Sirik just loves the weather here and the cool weather makes her medication tolerable, which was half the reason for us moving.

Based on some recommendations it looks like I might be shopping for a Troy Bilt 24" blower tomorrow! I may only use it a few times a year but it looks like it would be a lot more fun than shoveling the drive........ that's work!

When we discussed our house plans did I tell you about the plans for the hot tub on the back deck? That's another good thing! :smile:

Last night it got down to -6 here in Show Low, that's like 30 degrees below WAY TOO COLD but from my vantage point in the spa sitting in 100 degree water having the jets sooth my muscles from moving all those moving boxes.....it was all worth it! Did I say how much we like it here?:wink:

I think it was thursday morning when I woke up and looked out the bedroom window, I just had to grab a camera and capture to me...... what it's all about!

The first thing I saw thursday.......
 

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Nope

Texatdurango said:
Probably the strangest post I have ever made but I'm in new territory here and would like some advice!

A snow storm hit here starting wednesday morning and finally let up yesterday. Looks like more than a foot average but in places my drive was over 3' with the drifts and we have not left the house since wednesday afternoon, because the vehicles are stuck in the drive which angles down around the side of the house.

My questions:

1. I have heard that spreading salt on the driveway isn't that good and that there is something better, what is it and can it be applied on 2" or 3" of snow or does it have to be a thinner layer to be effective?

Salt is no good and neither is anything else....if your drive way is concrete all of them will damage the surfice.

2. Lowes has several sizes if the little walk behind snow blowers, I believe they are Troy built. I shoveled parts of my drive and it appears that sometime between wednesday and friday, snow had melted under the snow causing a 1" layer of ice against the concrete surface. Do these little machines remove that ice build up as well or just the loose snow above it?

No they will not remove that ice.

I'd rather not spend $500 - $800 only to find they leave the ice "crust" behind because that is what's causing me my problems right now.

Sand will help you get traction

Here is where the personal advice (your experience) comes in.... on the blowers are the features like moveable blower chutes and self propelled wheels really worth the extra money? I bought a self propelled mower once and ended up pushing it almost like the regular models so am leary about gadgets and claims.

Yes..if it ain't self propelled you'll "kill" yourself pushing it through heavy snow.

Any "snow suggestions" are welcome, we love it here so far, love the scenery but aren't really thrilled about shoveling snow....... it's NOT as easy as it looks!

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of snow "lovers"
 
The troy built should work ok. 24" is kind of small, but since it's a two stage it will work. It will have all the options that have been mentioned here. If you are getting 3 foot drifts you are going to need it.
As far as the ice, once you get the loose snow off, the ice will melt quick especially with the 49 degree temps by friday for your area. I go to a feed store and pick up chicken grit to use for traction. It works great. It doesn't get as messy as sand and when the ice refreezes at night, the grit is large enough to still provide traction. I sweep it up when things dry up and reuse it next time as well!!! Go Green!
 
Depending on how much/how light snow you get and the denseness of it. The ice melters might not work. You will have to get down to the crust first then apply and wait for them to work. In VA I use kitty litter on the drive and walk. There is a thing my nieghbor uses. It hooks to a propane bottle. The hose has a torch thing on it. This shoots fire at the ice and melts it.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_592_592
 
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Everyone here had great information on snow removal but I think I have the easiest.
My neighbor takes care of it for me. Boy, I hope he never moves. :biggrin:
 
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jaeger said:
The troy built should work ok. 24" is kind of small, but since it's a two stage it will work. It will have all the options that have been mentioned here. If you are getting 3 foot drifts you are going to need it.
As far as the ice, once you get the loose snow off, the ice will melt quick especially with the 49 degree temps by friday for your area. I go to a feed store and pick up chicken grit to use for traction. It works great. It doesn't get as messy as sand and when the ice refreezes at night, the grit is large enough to still provide traction. I sweep it up when things dry up and reuse it next time as well!!! Go Green!
Click to expand...

24" does seem small but really my only concern is my driveway and walking behind a 24" blower might be more pleasant than being behind a 24" shovel!:smile:

The traction of the feed sounds good but we have a lot of crows in the area which seem to be very good at ripping open plastic trash bags looking for food when someone forgets to close the lids to their trash cans, I wonder if the chicken feed would be appealing to them?
 
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