Threading tap dies etc.

[alexkuzn]

Hi Guys and Gals!

I was looking for any info about threading pens without a metalworking lathe in other words threading with tap and dies, but can't find much information.
It might be due my my lack of knowledge of proper terms(I am a pen turning newbie). I apologies if I am asking something that was already discussed many times here.

Here is my questions I was trying to fund answers for:
1. Is there any link where I can find kitless pen tutorials?
2. What size taps and dies are usually used for caps?
3. What supplier sells standard size thread nibs for kitless pens?


Any useful links or advise will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Alex

 

[ldb2000]

Alex , there are several threads about threading (pun intended) going on right now , just read the advanced forum posts . As for tutorials , there are none that I know of .
There are several different sizes of taps and dies used on "Cap" pens but the only currently available tap and die set is for the El Grande/Ligero and they aren't really available yet , there is a possible group buy going on now , check the "group buy" thread in the classifieds .
The threads for the Caps and barrels are a triple start threading , this means that there 3 sets of threads combined as one . These types of taps and dies are very expensive , I paid a little over $200 for my set in the last group buy , and they are special order . You can't go to your local Ace hardware and buy them .
As for nib section threads , there are no standard sizes . The threads for the El Grande/Ligero is not quite a 10x1 mm but we have found that size is close enough to work .
There are other ways to make Kitless Cap pens like , using a regular single start tap and die to cut the threads . A good size to get would be a 1/2"x36tpi , there are problems with single start designs though , like getting the grain to line up on the two halves and they have a tendency to unscrew in your pocket and to be strong enough to stand up to everyday use you need too many threads which means you have to screw and unscrew about 5 to 8 full turns to use the pen .
You could also make a friction fit instead of threads but after several attempts with minimal success at making a fit that works well and don't come apart in your pocket I gave up on that approach , It can be done but I was just not happy with the results .
You could also get a snap fit section from penmakers.com but they are expensive and and can be a pain to get adjusted right (I have never done one of this type so that's just what I have read about) .
I know I'm gonna get flamed for some of these comments so Flame away guys .
There is another way to do a kitless pen . Why not try to make a kitless slimline (ok semi kitless) or cigar type pen .
This type of pen requires no taps and dies and can be done with just the equipment you already have .
Check out the Kitless pen Challenge I'm running right now in the advanced penmaking forum . We have several very nice examples of pens that can be made using just a slimline transmission and a couple of 7mm tubes .
Hope this answers some of your qustions .

 

[Daniel]

Questions:
1. I don't know of any Tutorials. kitless pens by nature are more of a figure it out as you go sort of thing. they can be everyothing from I don't like the center band on this kit so i don't want to have to use it. to I want to make an entire pen from scratch.

2. In a since the size tap you woudl use for a cap woud hav ea lot to do with what size cap you choose to make. The group buy going on right now (Ending Nov 25th) is for a M12.0x0.8Px2.4L. there are a lot of people willind to pay a lot of money for these two tools. I would suspect it would be a pretty common size for a cap. it is for the El grande pen.

3. I don't really know that any supplier sells Standard nibs. From what I understand you pretty much take the parts from a kit that you want to use. and then start building a body around them. Getting a Harbor Freight set of taps and dies has been suggested as a way to get a lot of the taps and dies needed to match threads as you go. I have seen some pens that are so completely kitless or what I woudl consider true kitless that about the only kit parts I think where use is maybe the brass tubes and transmisson. the entire body, finial, and end cap and clip, where made in the shop. in this case the only thing that determind the threads is your choice.

I am doing a group buy for a triple start tap and die. the price right now for a set is $209.69. with a few more orders this price will drop by about $20. Keep in mind that these are custom made tools so they are very expensive. they are used for making the threads for the cap and make it possible for the cap to fit the pen more easily as well as to tighten or open with just 1 turn or less. basically it is adding some frills and convenience to your pen. Gives it that little bit of extra touch. The cap can still be threaded with a standard single thread tap. From what I can tell nearly any other part of the pen that would be threaded would be done with single thread taps and dies as well. so getting a HF set would cover the lions share of the tools you need while being the lambs share of the cost.
you can check out the group buy in this thread.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=39133

 

[BRobbins629]

Unfortunately, the HF set does not contain a 10 x 1mm set, but they are available at a reasonable cost from several internet suppliers.

 

[Daniel]

This is off topic but time is limited, as in real limited and I want as many people as I can to see it. so sorry but it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
anyway i am making a lost minute push int he group buy for 7 more orders. those orders will make the price drop for everyone to about $188 total cost. So I have made a special deal that basically is this If you want in at the $188 price but not at the $209 price, PM me that you are in at 177 (don't ask about the 177) I will only put you on a list. If and only if i get 8 people to join that list i will send payment notices for the Approx. $188. Payments will have to be made immediately. and all 8 payments will have to have cleared my pay pal account by Nov 26th when I place the order. failure for even one payment to clear will cancel all 8 orders on that list. I know this is confusing but look at it as a mini group buy within a group buy that needs a minimum of 8 orders. I have 1 of the 8 at this time. OK well thank you for this commercial break we will now resume our regularly scheduled program.

 

[Texatdurango]

Unfortunately, the HF set does not contain a 10 x 1mm set, but they are available at a reasonable cost from several internet suppliers.

Bruce, don't overlook this set at Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35407 . I bought this set on sale for around $19 if memory serves and it containes the 1x1mm tap and die and has pretty decent tap and die handles. I don't know about overall quality but have tapped dozens of blanks so far.

 

[Daniel]

Yeah George, you can send me one of those!!!. I think you posted this before in the last couple of days and I lost track of the link.

 

[BRobbins629]

Bruce, don't overlook this set at Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35407 . I bought this set on sale for around $19 if memory serves and it containes the 1x1mm tap and die and has pretty decent tap and die handles. I don't know about overall quality but have tapped dozens of blanks so far.

Thanks George. When I got mine, it wasn't in any of the sets in the store. Maybe they changed or just didn't have this one. Anyway, I'm covered since I filled in many of the sizes from one of the internet suppliers. But its a good reference.