Thoughts, observations and encouragement on techniques

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PatrickR said:
Thanks. This is all I was asking.
You say this topic is not new. Do you mean the topic of my original post?


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yes. It has been brought up before many times about various techniques, and pen types. All this stuff gets tied together. Making kitless pens and keeping secrets, coming up with new designs in segmenting and keeping secrets. Since I joined in 2005 this has been talked about. You are not the first making the claim back to your original statement.
 
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if one person brings it up its a claim, if many do its a trend and indicates that it's existence is real.

I will never join FB.


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PatrickR said:
if one person brings it up its a claim, if many do its a trend and indicates that it's existence is real.

I will never join FB.


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Your loss. Man no winning with you. As mentioned by someone else here this stuff has been going on for many more years before I was born. Why do you think patents were invented. I remember being an electrician apprentice and some of the old timers use to tell stories how they never got any help from their journeyman because they thought they would lose their jobs to the younger guys. So this carries over into all aspects of life not just pen turning. But I wish you good luck in whatever you are seeking. If you ever see any of my pens and want to know anything I will be glad to share all techniques, sources of materials and whatever else I can.
 
Final thoughts on this.
On FB, Loss why? Are they more open there?
I have never made this about me (or any specific people) and have tried to be as positive as possible. The only losers in this are those that are looking for a little help but get blown off. As stated I worked in an industry where this was the norm also, so I know well about the "tradition". This is a hobby site where people come to learn, I know that you personally are very willing to help people, but you can't deny that many others are not. Some that have participated in this thread. It's obvious that I am not changing any minds here since this has been going on a long time and many are willing to defend it...and so it goes.
I.O.A.F.P.


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Adding in another bit: I refrain from commenting at some points because the correct answer is futile. There are a hundred ways to do something, but only one or two that will produce top of the line fit and finish consistently.

I am in a profession in which the normal organizational structure produces a set percentage of growth at best. Almost everyone accepts that as standard and even a necessity. With only a few adjustments with a change in traditions, growth could double, but no one wants to change the way they started!
 
No you will never change minds. If that was your intention. People do what they feel is right not what you think they should do. I said your loss about FB. It gets a bad rap at times and deservedly so but there are positives and as I said you want to see and exchange kitless pen info. I gave you a good site on there and am not sure if they are elsewhere but nothing more I can say. Good luck.

This is like beating a dead horse and I guess I am contributing to it so I will step aside and done with this topic. I voiced my opinion and tried to help but ...........
 
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Keep in mind that just because you ask someone about something and do not get a reply from them doesn't mean you cannot get help with what you seek. If they do not answer in the thread that you ask, start a new post asking the same thing. You WILL get help in this forum. Just because someone does not get help when they want from whom they want when they want it is much different than not getting help.
 
Goulet, Edison, Gisi, Carolina Pen Company (Jonathon), F3/Fisher of Pens (me), Newton Pens, Opus (Dale), Mythic Pens (Brad), Jason Niel (Jason)

These are just a few that got started within a few years of each other, many of which cut their teeth on IAP and almost all of which don't frequent here anymore. There are lots more but this was just a quick list off the top of my head.

I went years without checking IAP but happen to be back with a change in philosophy about how I approach the artisan side of things and decided not to go the production pen company route.

PatrickR said:
the number of people that truly make a living from custom pens is minuscule.
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Regarding this, you also have to consider that the number of people actively collecting top dollar custom fountain pens is also miniscule.
 
Interesting thread... I'm one of those that will try to answer any question asked of me... this ain't rocket science.

That said I was as a local show a few years back... there were 3 pen turners there, me with mostly pepper mills, bowls and about a dozen or so pens, another older gentlemen that had about a dozen and half pens, all of the same general style... don't remember the exact style, but think it was the Americana from CSUSA... the third guy had a vast array of pens in varying kits and finishes.... in circulating the show, I stopped and talked to both the other turners.... the elderly gentleman was most gracious, showed me his pens and talked about them.... the guy with the most pens wasn't as friendly or forthcoming.... in our conversation I asked him his finish technique... some were well done, some not so well done.... his response was a very blunt, "I figured out how to do my finish, you can figure out your own"...... his prices were also the lowest of the three of us.... at the end of the show, he made a comment that it was a poor show and that he had not sold much... the elderly gentleman was almost sold out and I may have sold a half dozen, but had concentrated on the pepper mills and not the pens.

My point is that sometimes attitude towards friendliness and helpfulness can go a long way... this ain't rocket science.
 
Hi Patrick
I was asked about staging rings after I presented my Bash pen.

I am planning an explanation with pictures but it takes me a long time to do this stuff. I am honored that someone asked me about a technique and I want to share my experience.

This reminds me of my father and his experience in a machine shop. He worked with two other guys and they would not help him. He basically had to figure things out for himself. He would tell us about this at the dinner table. When I started working I had an engineering manager that was willing to teach me anything I wanted. As I became more experienced as started managing I made sure to assist anyone who asked for help.


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MRDucks2 said:
Keep in mind that just because you ask someone about something and do not get a reply from them doesn't mean you cannot get help with what you seek. If they do not answer in the thread that you ask, start a new post asking the same thing. You WILL get help in this forum. Just because someone does not get help when they want from whom they want when they want it is much different than not getting help.
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I hope that this is so. I'm sure I will get a chance to try it out.


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Carl Fisher said:
Goulet, Edison, Gisi, Carolina Pen Company (Jonathon), F3/Fisher of Pens (me), Newton Pens, Opus (Dale), Mythic Pens (Brad), Jason Niel (Jason)

These are just a few that got started within a few years of each other, many of which cut their teeth on IAP and almost all of which don't frequent here anymore. There are lots more but this was just a quick list off the top of my head.

I went years without checking IAP but happen to be back with a change in philosophy about how I approach the artisan side of things and decided not to go the production pen company route.



Regarding this, you also have to consider that the number of people actively collecting top dollar custom fountain pens is also miniscule.
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Thanks Carl. I will check these out. The pens I have seen of yours are wonderful!
I did look at the Goulet website referenced earlier and recognized the wire hoop style clip immediately. He has obviously gone the lower price mass produced route. No mention of where they are made. To me that's a sure sign of MIPRC.


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Actually now that I think back on it, I don't remember if Brian actually did turn pens or not. Someone has been around longer than me can correct me on that.
 
I used the term "change minds" earlier and that was probably not the best and not my intention. My intention of the thread was and is what the title suggests and what was put into the 1st post. This thread has wandered a bit and some have made assumptions that are not accurate.
I like hand crafted things made predominantly the old way(ie not with a computer). The less the traditional techniques are passed along the sooner they go away. Once gone the computerized trends will fill the void. There may be no way to stop it but we don't have to hasten it. We have heard and know of the tight lipped ways in many fields.
I can think of one that is a good example of how being open has had a very positive effect.
Custom furniture- a person with the will can still make a living doing it and I attribute that to the willingness of people like Sam Maloof (there are many more) who were very open with their techniques and ideas. They didn't hide behind the "bottom line" idea.
Nope not rocket science.
I'll borrow this motto (with one change) from the Letterheads, a group that was formed to share and revive the traditional techniques in my former trade - I.O.A.F.P.


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Carl Fisher said:
Those are Lamy. Goulet is an online retailer for other brand pens at this point.
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that's funny. I looked again and the only Goulet branded items are accessories.
Really of no consequence to this. The idea of who's making money at this was not part of my OP


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PatrickR said:
that's funny. I looked again and the only Goulet branded items are accessories.
Really of no consequence to this. The idea of who's making money at this was not part of my OP


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The thing was you asked me and I would have given alot more names but glad Carl did. I was going to mention him as well but I get a little nervous about posting names and that is my thing so do not ask why. That is why I was hesitant but when Mal pushed me i did a couple. Brian did make pens when he was here. It was mentioned here back in 2010 I believe that Brian Goulet did pens for the Emmy Awards (30th).

Here is an older thread that deals with copying which has some merits to what you asked. You can mess with the wording but it is the same as copying when you ask how was it done. 2009 And this is what happened many times here. Now people like myself could care less if my work is copied or not but again if you are selling to make a living it can hurt and thus the CRICKETS.
https://www.penturners.org/threads/pen-turning-ethics.42193/#post-798104
 
PatrickR said:
if one person brings it up its a claim, if many do its a trend and indicates that it's existence is real.

I will never join FB.


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I swore I would never join FB, but was forced to a few months ago. I am a computer consultant and one of my clients was having a problem with a piece of equipment and their only support was on FB. I opened an account, but did not create a page or any thing. I "friended" several relatives and a couple of close friends who live far away. I go in and check it every week or so. The only posts I see are those made by my very few "friends." I'm not particularly taken with it, but it has allowed me to keep up with a few distant (geographically) relatives and their families during the pandemic. I usually make a cross country trip every year to see my family, but that didn't happen this year!
 
I don't have a problem with the people on FB. I do have a problem with the company and it's agenda.


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