Tankless or traditional

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Haynie

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Wife says it is time to replace the water heater. My sons and I do not run out of hot water. Apparently the little woman has started running out of water when she shaves her legs. Since it is almost ten years old and was not large enough for the house anyway I guess she is right.

I am having difficulty finding information with unbiased reviews comparing tankless and traditional.

No gas to the house so it has to be electric. 3 bathrooms. One is used like 5 days a year and is quite a ways from the the other two. The shower in one is used for maybe 20 showers a year, and is literally backed up to the third and daily used bathroom. 4 showers a day. 1-2 loads of laundry a day, once with the dishwasher, and general use of the kitchen sink.

Wife is pushing for tankless. Me, not so sure.

Anyone here have some thoughts?
 
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If natural gas or propane were an option, I'd immediately say, "go tankless". But the electric tankless units do not impress me.

Additionally, for the additional cash outlay for the electric tankless, I'm not sure how long it would take to reclaim the initial investment.

When we built our home (9 years ago), tankless WAS available, just not quite perfected. We chose to use a traditional tank heater, but prepared to put in a tankless as the technology advanced.

WHEN it was time to replace the original heater, times were hard and we chose to replace with a more energy efficient tank. PLUS, we installed an electronic timer. THIS WAS A GREAT INVESTMENT!!!!!

We could have "gotten by" with a 50 gallon heater (4,800 sq ft . heated house), but we chose a better quality 85 gallon tank. WITH the installation of the timer to turn OFF the heater when hot water is not required, we actually SAVED SUBSTANTIALLY with the bigger tank.

If your schedules permit, a timer (the better timers have 7 day schedules with 4 events per day) could be JUST as efficient as the electric tankless heater WITHOUT the big cash outlay.

Just another option. Respectfully submitted.
 
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This one and our last house both have/had tankless. I will NEVER go back!! The energy savings alone are worth it. If you are on a water meter, the savings add up faster!! Our builder uses Rinnai gas type...electric is kinda of the same as having a water tank style heater. We didn't have the option of manufacturer, so I can't speak to long term viability, but for our money...worth every red cent.
 
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I had gas tankless and my dad has electric tankless. What is your water supply? Well or water utility? Low water pressure does not make for a happy tankless experiance. My dad had 3 units in his house. He has one major unit for his bathroom. He has a smaller unit for just the kitchen and another larger one for the guest bath and Laundry. Hot water only travels 10 feet in any direction from a heater. Its jut him and mom in the house so the electric usage is low but I doubt that the savings will pay for the units in his lifetime. He had a 400 amp service put in the house when we built it and the water heaters take 2 80 amp and one 50 amp breaker. He has a 2200sf house. I believe the heaters were Around $4400 at the time for all three. They have been using them for the last 8 years. They have better models out now but change over is not cost effective. Can you find a model that will do the volume and use the existing wiring that your tank thats being replaced or will you have to upgrade your wiring and service?
 
Good questions Mike. Looks like I can use my existing wiring, but I will have an electrician confirm that.

All things that need hot water are centrally located, except the one super seldomly used bathroom. That bathroom is in an addition. I will look into getting a single bathroom hot water heater for it too.
 
Both are/were gas.
There is a small amount of maintenance...filter cleanout, but that is all we do every 6 months.
 
There is a Ridgid plumbing forum where this subject has a lot of discussion. I believe tankless heaters need to be descaled on a yearly basis according to what I read on that forum. I would imaging the frequency would depend on the quality of your water. And I doubt that your current wiring could handle the power requirements for tankless.
My vote would be for a bigger standard water heater.
 
Here is a portion of a message from a very respected plumber on the Ridgid forum

"there are point of use little electric tankless/ instantaneous heaters we use under a bathroom sink for commercial installations. you might be familiar with them at small single sink retail stores. they produce very little hot water and require a tremendous amount of power. they usually require a very restrictive faucet aereator to limit the flow.

unless you are plugged into a nuclear power plant, a whole house tankless would cause your power meter to spin out of control. the one customer i have with a 1 bathroom small condo had to put a new panel in to handle the heater. it requires 120 amps at 240 volts and you can barely take a shower.

so the lesser of both evils would be a gas tankless, and you already know our feeling about them
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I have electric whole house heater. No gas in my area.

When I replaced it the last time, I put some of the "plastic" wood decking material under the tank for a thermal break between the tank and the concrete floor.

I also put in a timer and a water recirculating pump on a heater.

The main water use areas, master bath and kitchen sink are on other side of house from the heater.

I saw a reduction in electrical use of about $20 a month - I am on year round pay plan and our electric cost is about $0.10 during summer and $0.07 per kWH.

I could turn the pump off and save a bit in electric, but increase water usage while running to get hot water for each shower and meal prep / clean up.

I have had this system working for about 3 years now and have had no problems with it.
 
Will be replacing our 55 gallon Gas heat next year. Will be going Tankless with Gas as all the gas lines are right there and don't have to run more electric lines.
 
My dad electric bill is not out of controll from the electric tankless heaters. You get all the hot water you can stand but you need a full flow shower head. The water saver kind will not let enough water flow and the heater will shut off if the flow drops below a certain level.
You will still need 120v at the gas heater mounting location to kick on the unit and run the exhaust fan and a low voltage line from the heater to the controller. At least mine did. Perhaps that plumber meant the under the counter ones.
 
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You could always go for a GE Geospring Hybrid (Electric/Heat Pump) water heater. They supposedly save quite a bit in energy, are proudly manufactured and designed in the USofA and will help my stock shares out by one millionth of a cent each :)

P.S. It qualifies for the tax rebate of $300
 
I changed over to a Propane Tankless water heater (rural MO Ozarks) 4 years ago and love it. A local plumber told me it wouldn't work as I was on well water and it would lime up within 6 months. So when I installed it I added extra valves and taps so I couls isolate it and flush with de-lime or whatever. 4 years and it has been flawless and I've not had to de-lime it yet.
 
FWIW, every electric I looked at (admittedly a number of years ago) in tankless would be a bad choice for anything other than light use.

The gas ones were the only ones that seemed to be adequate, and some of them looked excellent, but without gas that isn't an option.
 
Hmmmm

In this house we have natural gas available so if we ever replace the current hot water tank we'll go tankless. Natural gas is cheap and it will get cheaper if the government gets out of the way and allows development - we (the USA) are sitting on an ocean of it.

I can't believe people are talking about needing tank replacement in 10 years or less in our last home, we moved into the house in 1968 and in 1974 we replaced a water heater that had been installed in 1947. We bought an AO Smith 80 gallon tank and in 1999 we moved out of the house with that tank still in place and working fine. We had to drain it about once a year because of iron in the water. We also eventually installed an addtional 40 gallon tank that fed the main tank, allowed us to use our coal furnace to heat water in the winter and even in the summer it warmed the well water before it went into the hot water tank.

If you are heating with oil - I would get an oil or propane fired tank in preference to electric - at least here and the last location we lived before Delaware electric rates were really high and both oil and propane could have a serious drop in price if we ever exploit our reserves -- and I think one day we will.
 
I am seeing a lot of unimpressed electric on demand owners as I do the research. Seems our needs would be too taxing so we would have to double up. Seems kind of silly, so now I start looking at traditional. The hybrid tanks are interesting but they seem to be really darn expensive. If we had natural gas available I would go the tankless route in a heartbeat.

Smitty, around here the choice is expensive electric or more expensive propane. Yes the propane is more expensive. No natural gas. Seems to be the cost of living in BF no where. Appliances are not built to last anymore. We have replaced two washers and 1 dryer in our tenure as a married couple. We have only been married since 99. I don't buy cheap and research the hell out of things before I purchase. Doesn't matter, still happens. Repairs are often more expensive than the new machine. The water heater was bought by my father-in-law when he was the only person in the house. It is a little one. Not sure about the size. It was never capable of supporting a family of four, so we have put it through the ringer.
 
Haynie said:
I am seeing a lot of unimpressed electric on demand owners as I do the research. Seems our needs would be too taxing so we would have to double up. Seems kind of silly, so now I start looking at traditional. The hybrid tanks are interesting but they seem to be really darn expensive. If we had natural gas available I would go the tankless route in a heartbeat.

Smitty, around here the choice is expensive electric or more expensive propane. Yes the propane is more expensive. No natural gas. Seems to be the cost of living in BF no where. Appliances are not built to last anymore. We have replaced two washers and 1 dryer in our tenure as a married couple. We have only been married since 99. I don't buy cheap and research the hell out of things before I purchase. Doesn't matter, still happens. Repairs are often more expensive than the new machine. The water heater was bought by my father-in-law when he was the only person in the house. It is a little one. Not sure about the size. It was never capable of supporting a family of four, so we have put it through the ringer.
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I hear that!! I am surprised that AZ isn't more pro active in that area unless they want rock the solar thing. Depending on the next three years for us, solar will do it or see what is available in other countries.
More on the subject, an 85 gallon tank, propane (propane is gas too!) fired H2O tank would be great!! I'd check into a recirculated pump to mimic the tank-less scenario.
 
Haynie said:
I am seeing a lot of unimpressed electric on demand owners as I do the research. Seems our needs would be too taxing so we would have to double up. Seems kind of silly, so now I start looking at traditional. The hybrid tanks are interesting but they seem to be really darn expensive. If we had natural gas available I would go the tankless route in a heartbeat.

Smitty, around here the choice is expensive electric or more expensive propane. Yes the propane is more expensive. No natural gas. Seems to be the cost of living in BF no where. Appliances are not built to last anymore. We have replaced two washers and 1 dryer in our tenure as a married couple. We have only been married since 99. I don't buy cheap and research the hell out of things before I purchase. Doesn't matter, still happens. Repairs are often more expensive than the new machine. The water heater was bought by my father-in-law when he was the only person in the house. It is a little one. Not sure about the size. It was never capable of supporting a family of four, so we have put it through the ringer.
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I understand -- when I lived 35 miles from where I live now the electric rates were 55% of what they are here - the difference? Where we lived before was a co-op with it's own power generation. So electric was competitive even with natural gas and cheaper than propane.
 
Propane is a very very expensive gas here. They have you by the short hairs if you get my drift. When we moved here and I did not know about the cost of propane I was told the gas pipes in our house were not even close to being usable since they have not been used in over 20 years.

I have this dream of turning our shop property into a small solar generating station. If we had plans to stay here then I would explore it more, but we want out. This temporary move has gone on too long.
 
Tankless water heaters are more expensive to purchase and install than tank style heaters. If there is an option to use gas, they will pay for themselves over time because their operating cost is lower. But if the life expectancy is limited some reason, then the tank style heater is probably a better choice.

Electric water heaters have the inherent problem that the electrodes are surrounded by water, and if there is mineral content in the water (there almost always is), the electrodes will have a limited life expectancy. With tank type water heaters, it is possible to replace those electrodes (no one promises that it is a simple task, or that you can replace them without having a few residual leaks - DAMHIKT). I don't know if that is possible for tankless electrical water heaters.

So my opinion is that if you don't have the option to go to gas, then the tank-style water heater is probably the better choice.

Also, my experience is that installing a water softener will extend the life expectancy of the electrodes in an electric water heater.
 
We don't drink the water here, it is hard enough to chew. I read several places that said if the warranty is up don't bother fixing just replace.

We thought about a water softener. My doc said I did not need the extra salt in my diet though.
 
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Haynie said:
We don't drink the water here, it is hard enough to chew. I read several places that said if the warranty is up don't bother fixing just replace.

We thought about a water softener. My doc said I did not need the extra salt in my diet though.
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You might need a little plumbing but I believe you can install a water softener such that it would only affect the supply to the hot water heater....that would leave your cold water the same as it is now - you would just have to do most of your cooking starting with cold water to keep the salt out of your diet.

Just to complicate things, they now have some studies showing that what we have known for years about salt and high blood pressure is wrong - it seems like every year they come up with something that shows we have been using wrong or unnecessary treatments for one disease of another.
 
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