Table Saw Safety

[roddesigner]

CPSC to consider table saw safety improvements.
The AP (10/6) reports the Consumer Product Safety Commission unanimously agreed Wednesday to consider ways to improve the safety of table saws. The agency "estimates consumers suffered about 67,300 medically treated blade-contact injuries annually in 2007 and 2008. Including medical costs, lost time from work, and pain and suffering, the injuries cost more than $2 billion in each of those two years." The Power Tool Institute, which represents table saw manufacturers say the stats "don't reflect the newly designed guard systems that manufacturers started putting on saws in 2007 as way to shield users." The Institute also says no "blade-contact injuries" from saws with guards have been reported.

Bloomberg News (10/6, Plungis) reports CPSC spokesman Scott Wolfson said, "The agency will examine technologies, such as offered by closely held SawStop LLC, that can stop the blade instantly when human flesh is detected and may eventually issue a rule." SawStop creator Stephen Gass began lobbying the CPSC over eight years ago to consider his gadget, but the Power Tool Institute has "warned that a mandatory standard could create a monopoly for Gass, who they say has locked up more than 70 patents." Wolfson said, "The CPSC will seek comments from the industry and the general public before moving to a more specific proposal."

 

[edicehouse]

The bad part of this is, ALL of the table saw incidents I know are the persons fault. Not equipment failure. My brother "knicked" his thumb one day when we were at my grandmothers house, and he was using the push stick that I told him he needed to reform, because of all the cuts and things like that in it.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I read an article about power tool injuries about a year ago and they said that 4 tools are responsible for a vast majority of tool related injuries, utility knife, nail gun, miter saw, and circular saw. Utility knife, cuts to the opposite hand and groin area because of the blade slipping. Nail gun, Fingers too close to work and lower thigh because of carrying the gun with the safety depressed and tripping. Miter saw, fingers too close to work. Circular saw, thigh and fingers of the hand that is not on the saw. The two explanations that are most commonly told to hospital personnel are, "I was in a hurry" and,"I was trying something new." HOWEVER 200,000 people go to the hospital every year with EYE INJURIES. Be safe you there.

 

[Haynie]

If I could afford a Saw Stop I would in an instant. The problem with these important safety mechanisms is the expense. Being poor I am well aware of where my fingers are ALL the time in a shop situation.

The monopoly thing is an interesting point. I am pretty sure the cost of items will rise even higher if this passes.

 

[animefan]

The best way to operate a table saw safely is to not own one.

 

[Boz]

Another example of the government sticking their nose into something that they have no knowledge. You can not legislate safety. Everything is life has some level of risk how much you are willing to put up with is up to you. Look how they screwed up the motorcycle industry for kids with their knee jerk reaction banning lead.

 

[ed4copies]

If I could afford a Saw Stop I would in an instant. The problem with these important safety mechanisms is the expense. Being poor I am well aware of where my fingers are ALL the time in a shop situation.

The monopoly thing is an interesting point. I am pretty sure the cost of items will rise even higher if this passes.

I don't mean to single out any one person, the quote is common. Do we start out with a budget, or do we start with a "need".

When cars were $5000, the same number (relative to population) were sold in the USA as are sold today, when the cars are $30,000. Are we earning 6 times as much??? I'm sure not.

People perceive a value--it is not an inherent quality. If tablesaws were all $2000, they might sell fewer, but they would still sell to those who believe they need one.

Just a FWIW!!

BTW, I bought a tablesaw, since the SawStop has been available--to me it was not worth the cost differential, because I was afraid oily exotic wood would stop the blade and I would be replacing the stop mechanism (about $100) regularly.

Had they been exactly the same cost, I still would have opted for a saw without this feature, at the time.

 

[Timebandit]

Check this out. This has been in the making for a while now, and there design has changed since i last saw it. It is now smaller, can be put on any device and has a seperate box for operation. If this ever makes it to market, and is the right price, forget about the sawstop. This will let everyone add extra safety to there existing table saw. I think i looks great. go to the website and read the whole thing and watch ALL of the videos.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

 

[Ankrom Exotics]

Another example of the government sticking their nose into something that they have no knowledge. You can not legislate safety. Everything is life has some level of risk how much you are willing to put up with is up to you. Look how they screwed up the motorcycle industry for kids with their knee jerk reaction banning lead.

Actually, they can. Seat belt laws, texting while driving laws, mandatory air bags, motorcycle helmet laws, drinking and driving laws etc.... have all been put in place and enforced to one extent or another. The world is full of people who otherwise wouldn't be alive if not for some of these regulations.

This is not to say I endorse the government sticking its nose into every little thing we do. I'm merely pointing out examples where it has been effective. I also believe people need to exercise some common sense and take some responsibility for their own actions.

 

[DurocShark]

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

 

[Padre]

I have a SawStop, have had for 3 years or so now. It has gone off "accidentally" only 3 times:
1. When my new aluminum miter bar hit the blade (My fault, didn't align it properly
2. When there was water on a piece of wood, and I didn't notice it
3. When I tried to cut a just purchased piece of treated lumber that was pretty wet

You can turn the safety mechanism off pretty easily though so you can cut metal/treated lumber, etc.

Ed: the SawStop is comparable in price to most high-end table saws. Safety feature aside, it is a really good table saw. Easy to set up, keeps it's level and angle, is quiet, good dust collection and quality made.

 

[Padre]

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

So far, out of 3 'trips' of the mechanism, I've not had to throw away any of my blades. 1 was a Forrest, two were Freud. Took them out of the aluminum stop mechanism, had it sharpened, and all set to go.

 

[DurocShark]

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

So far, out of 3 'trips' of the mechanism, I've not had to throw away any of my blades. 1 was a Forrest, two were Freud. Took them out of the aluminum stop mechanism, had it sharpened, and all set to go.

If it needed sharpening, it is still damaged. Plus, I'd worry that an impact like that would warp the blade, but it sounds like that hasn't happened to you.

 

[edicehouse]

I do not believe they can outlaw current table saws. So if you have gotten one in the last 10 years you probably will not have to worry for a long time. I can see both sides. The monopoly because of the technology, but the safety factor. A comparasion is bike helmets. When I was 7 or 8 and any kid that rode a bike with a helmet... well he got picked on by the other kids, now it is law.

Total side note unrelated, the guy I am sharing an office is about to try some wild turkey I brought in. Not liquid, but meat form.... I think he will not like it when I tell him it is not just turkey, but wild turkey.

 

[Padre]

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

So far, out of 3 'trips' of the mechanism, I've not had to throw away any of my blades. 1 was a Forrest, two were Freud. Took them out of the aluminum stop mechanism, had it sharpened, and all set to go.

If it needed sharpening, it is still damaged. Plus, I'd worry that an impact like that would warp the blade, but it sounds like that hasn't happened to you.

Then I guess we damage our saw every time we run a board through it! :biggrin:

 

[Padre]

......snip...............
Total side note unrelated, the guy I am sharing an office is about to try some wild turkey I brought in. Not liquid, but meat form.... I think he will not like it when I tell him it is not just turkey, but wild turkey.

Does it taste a lot different than 'store bought?'

 

[DurocShark]

Then I guess we damage our saw every time we run a board through it! :biggrin:

OK, you got me on that one. :tongue:

 

[Haynie]

......snip...............
Total side note unrelated, the guy I am sharing an office is about to try some wild turkey I brought in. Not liquid, but meat form.... I think he will not like it when I tell him it is not just turkey, but wild turkey.

Does it taste a lot different than 'store bought?'

Yes. IMO

 

[Timebandit]

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

Or try this. it doesnt damage the blade in any way, shape, or form. You can go right back to cutting after setting it off.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

 

[DurocShark]

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

Or try this. it doesnt damage the blade in any way, shape, or form. You can go right back to cutting after setting it off.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

Yeah, I find his design interesting...

 

[Timebandit]

Me to. Its changed since i last saw it. It used to just be for a tablesaw, but is now able to be fit on any saw, bandsaw, scrollsaw. I hope this ends up making it to the market. Im sure it will be a lot cheaper then a $3000 sawstap, and you can fit it on the tablesaw you own now.

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

Or try this. it doesnt damage the blade in any way, shape, or form. You can go right back to cutting after setting it off.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

Yeah, I find his design interesting...

 

[DurocShark]

Me to. Its changed since i last saw it. It used to just be for a tablesaw, but is now able to be fit on any saw, bandsaw, scrollsaw. I hope this ends up making it to the market. Im sure it will be a lot cheaper then a $3000 sawstap, and you can fit it on the tablesaw you own now.

If they could come up with a way that didn't damage the saw and blade requiring replacement of both, I'd fight hard to get one.

Now? With the crazy crap I cut, the sensor would ALWAYS be off. Defeats the purpose.

Or try this. it doesnt damage the blade in any way, shape, or form. You can go right back to cutting after setting it off.

http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

Yeah, I find his design interesting...

I do like that you don't have to actually make contact with the blade to shut down the saw.

 

[Haynie]

If I could afford a Saw Stop I would in an instant.

I don't mean to single out any one person, the quote is common. Do we start out with a budget, or do we start with a "need".

Not sure I understand what you mean. Is this what you were saying

I can only speak for myself. I am not a cabinet maker. I do not NEED a full sized table saw, heck I don't NEED a table saw at all. Therefore I am dealing with a WANT. As a want, I am forced to start with a budget. If the budget says I can get a saw then the amount in that budget dictates the best saw I get. Most likely not new, in my case.

A Car and Saw are apples and oranges so lets see if this example fits what you were saying.

As a boat mechanic I bought the best most reliable tools based on research. I could have spent less but I learned my lesson. Craftsman sockets hurt when they shatter. and when you shatter as many I did that first season you don't go back. Yes, craftsman makes good tools but good was not good enough. A customer does not think "I broke my ratchet,/socket/whatever" is a good reason to not get their repair done. I needed the tools that would avoid that situation and made my budget fit the need (Never bought on credit).

Thus WANT and NEED are two different things and have to be thought of as different.

Is this what you meant?

 

[moke]

I bought a 52" saw stop about a year ago after a friend cut two fingers off. He had some extenuating circumstances but his bill was 170K of which he had to pick up 6K himself. He was a 40 year woodworker that had never been injured seriously. Another friend and I bought one a few months later. I must say I don't totally trust the mechanism, and contiue to be cautious, there is an underlying sense of fear that is gone when I use it. I never realized I had any fear or respect or what ever you call it, until I used this saw. I have used TS's for almost 40 years...

I also must say I am not impressed the way Steve Gass has lobbied to get his invention included on all saws, but this is a great saw. I have never paid that much for a tool before, but after looking at them and using one, they are well built and smooth as I have ever seen. I tried the perverbial nickel on end as I turned the saw on and off and it did not fall over. I am told by other friends that the Powermatic's quality blows this one away, I personally have never used a Powermatic. As I am sure you know a Powermatic is even more than a Saw Stop.

Not to disrespect other opinions, but I felt it was right for me.

 

[edicehouse]

Actually this is reminding me a lot of the discussion that pops up when people say something about a hand made pen vs a pack of ten from Walmart.

We all agree that the saw stop is a great invention, but the cost is a huge factor in it. Someone stated about still being careful, that does make sense, I have a seat belt and air bags in my car, but I am not going to drive it in a brick wall.

The biggest thing I see if money and/or space was not an issue we would all have the most expension table saw that has built in fridge and cotton candy maker.

 

[xxShadowxx]

have enough mechanical knowledge, and a bit of computer knowledge (or kids to do it for you), and alot of tools can be automated without much cost in buying parts, example

my miter saw has a cheap hydralic cylinder to move it, and a stepper motor to feed in whatever i cut along a track and hold it

router has a table, and some cheap threaded rods and stepper motors to move it XY

drillpress another hydralic cylinder

things cost alot to buy, if you have the time and know where to get parts cheap, you can do wonders, and not need to be near tools at runtime - besides i'm a computer geek, someone expects me to do things the old ways? hahaha