Starting Kitless -Couple of questions

[keithbyrd]

I bought the tools (taps/dies) and made a kitless pen (on my wood lathe) about 4 years ago with great intentions of doing many more! So now I am starting back!
Questions:
1. I have a Grizzley metal lathe G8688 7x12 that I know little about but want to learn while I am ramping up kitless pens. It came with a 3 jaw chuck and I would like to put a collet chuck on it - is this possible? What are the pro and cons of using the 3 jaw?

2. What are the correct/best tools to use with the lathe? I have a set of 5/16 carbide painted red tools and an Accusize 3/8 Carbide tools. I have used a couple of them just messing around to see what they do. They don't seem to cut very smooth!

Any advice and tips are appreciated!

 

[derekdd]

I'm not turning them so I can't give you any advice. However, I did run across this video recently where this guy uses both a wood and metal lathe to turn them. He responded to my comment pretty quickly so is likely to answer any questions you might have.

I know there is a wealth of information on the process in our resources section here. Good luck!

 

[Hippie3180]

I bought the tools (taps/dies) and made a kitless pen (on my wood lathe) about 4 years ago with great intentions of doing many more! So now I am starting back!
Questions:
1. I have a Grizzley metal lathe G8688 7x12 that I know little about but want to learn while I am ramping up kitless pens. It came with a 3 jaw chuck and I would like to put a collet chuck on it - is this possible? What are the pro and cons of using the 3 jaw?

2. What are the correct/best tools to use with the lathe? I have a set of 5/16 carbide painted red tools and an Accusize 3/8 Carbide tools. I have used a couple of them just messing around to see what they do. They don't seem to cut very smooth!

Any advice and tips are appreciated!

I use a wood lathe, a collet will make things much easier than jaws. Carbides will work very well with Alumilite, Ebonite and wood. I use a wood lathe so can't comment on the metal lathe, but many kitless folks use them.

 

[hooked]

1. the three jaw chuck likely attaches to a faceplate with nuts from the backside of the faceplate that you can access with a wrench. Little Machine Shop (and probably others) sells collet chucks that screw onto the faceplate just like your 3 jaw chuck.

The main reason I believe that people do not use a 3 jaw is because you need to remove the material quite a bit to check on things, polish, test fit, flip around. Then when you go and place the material back in the chuck you will need to manually PERFECTLY center the piece in the chuck with a dial indicator and get the exact same fit. The collet chuck allows you to pretty much quickly chuck it up again and keep going. Although, a lot of people do seem to turn great pens with 3 jaw chucks. It just seems to be more work.

2. I personally like HSS for the metal lathe on acrylics. I find that carbide does not give as good of a finish...for me. It takes practice to get good cuts and a good STEADY feed rate for the material. Mess with the angle of the tool until you find what works best for you. It is also vital to use lubricants to get good cuts. I flood it when I am cutting with anchorlube mixed 50/50 with water or Tap Magic if cutting metal. Take shallow cuts at first and figure out how deep you can go and still get a good finish.

The other thing I have done that has been successful that someone mentioned here was buy a woodturning carbide tool, cut off the cutter and mount it in the metal lathe like a standard cutter. This is what I use for wood and alumilite on the metal lathe:

I would suggest looking at some of Blondihacks older videos on YouTube. I basically learned how to use my lathe by watching her videos. She has a 20 part series on beginner metal lathe videos that are great.

My last tip would be to oil your compound and make sure your compound is tight and adjusted. A wonky compound will never give a good cut. Don't extend the compound too much. Try to make adjustments to keep the compound as solid as possible.

 

[rixstix]

Ditto the above.

I like my ER32 chuck/collets because it removes a knuckle buster as an extra benefit.
The ER32 also lets you turn square blanks into round blanks very quickly.

 

[keithbyrd]

I'm not turning them so I can't give you any advice. However, I did run across this video recently where this guy uses both a wood and metal lathe to turn them. He responded to my comment pretty quickly so is likely to answer any questions you might have.

I know there is a wealth of information on the process in our resources section here. Good luck!

Thank you Derek!

 

[keithbyrd]

1. the three jaw chuck likely attaches to a faceplate with nuts from the backside of the faceplate that you can access with a wrench. Little Machine Shop (and probably others) sells collet chucks that screw onto the faceplate just like your 3 jaw chuck.

The main reason I believe that people do not use a 3 jaw is because you need to remove the material quite a bit to check on things, polish, test fit, flip around. Then when you go and place the material back in the chuck you will need to manually PERFECTLY center the piece in the chuck with a dial indicator and get the exact same fit. The collet chuck allows you to pretty much quickly chuck it up again and keep going. Although, a lot of people do seem to turn great pens with 3 jaw chucks. It just seems to be more work.

2. I personally like HSS for the metal lathe on acrylics. I find that carbide does not give as good of a finish...for me. It takes practice to get good cuts and a good STEADY feed rate for the material. Mess with the angle of the tool until you find what works best for you. It is also vital to use lubricants to get good cuts. I flood it when I am cutting with anchorlube mixed 50/50 with water or Tap Magic if cutting metal. Take shallow cuts at first and figure out how deep you can go and still get a good finish.

The other thing I have done that has been successful that someone mentioned here was buy a woodturning carbide tool, cut off the cutter and mount it in the metal lathe like a standard cutter. This is what I use for wood and alumilite on the metal lathe:

View attachment 361790


I would suggest looking at some of Blondihacks older videos on YouTube. I basically learned how to use my lathe by watching her videos. She has a 20 part series on beginner metal lathe videos that are great.

My last tip would be to oil your compound and make sure your compound is tight and adjusted. A wonky compound will never give a good cut. Don't extend the compound too much. Try to make adjustments to keep the compound as solid as possible.

Thank you Mark. I appreciate your insights and will check out the collet! In your last tip your refer to "compound" - what do you mean by compound?

 

[keithbyrd]

Thank you Michelle - I use a wood lathe too -but since I have a metal I want to learn how to use it!

 

[hooked]

The compound slide is the top layer where your cutter is attached. I find this to be the weakest point of the mini lathe. If you have this part coming out very far from the center, you will get more chatter when cutting, and it gives poor cuts. At least it does with my Seig style lathe. Try to keep the compound slide centered over the cross slide as much as possible, which will improve rigidity to the mini lathe and produce a better cut...at least in my opinion from dealing with my lathe. You can adjust those screws at the bottom as well if there is any play in the compound slide.

I didn't realize this when I started and struggled trying to figure out why my cuts looked so bad. Everything led back to the compound slide. Just another idea to think about when troubleshooting.

 

[target64]

Little machine shop is good for tooling
Blondie hacks is a very good machinist
Chad at Turnerstv just did a series for people starting out.
Collet Chucks are great.
Get a good set of Calipers inch/metric/fraction
I use Delrin from on line metals as practice material.
Read what you can watch what is available, and have fun.

 

[keithbyrd]

Well I used my wood lathe and spent all day making a kitless - about 6 PM I broke the threads off the barrel! I am doing things that I thought made since to do / I think a few were out of order / causing the break / I think I figured out a repair! That will be tomorrows task!

 

[Hippie3180]

You may have cut your relief too deep, if so that can happen with the body or section. I tend to have that happen with my section more often than the body.

 

[jalbert]

You shouldn't be cutting any relief behind the threads, period.

 

[Hippie3180]

You shouldn't be cutting any relief behind the threads, period.

Hmmm, I do and most folks do? What are the options and what is the reasoning, just instability?

 

[jalbert]

Most folks don't, if you look at the broader spectrum of penmakers outside of this circle. Yes it makes already weak spots even weaker, and it looks ugly.

 

[Hippie3180]

Most folks don't, if you look at the broader spectrum of penmakers outside of this circle. Yes it makes already weak spots even weaker, and it looks ugly.

Well I know of many in my circle that do, also that was kind of ugly. I guess there's a lot of ugly pens out there then.

I guess the solution is to chamfer the cap, or is it a secret since you're not sharing the solution?

 

[jalbert]

You're getting awfully uppity, considering you never asked for an alternate solution.

But yes, the preferable solution is to counterbore the female threads

 

[keithbyrd]

You're getting awfully uppity, considering you never asked for an alternate solution.

But yes, the preferable solution is to counterbore the female threads

what do you mean "counterbore" the email threads?

 

[jalbert]

Take a drill bit the same diameter as the major diameter of the threads and remove a small amount of threads from the female threads until your two threaded parts fit together snugly without gaps. Or do it with a boring bar instead.

 

[keithbyrd]

Take a drill bit the same diameter as the major diameter of the threads and remove a small amount of threads from the female threads until your two threaded parts fit together snugly without gaps. Or do it with a boring bar instead.

Got it - thank you John!

 

[Hippie3180]

You're getting awfully uppity, considering you never asked for an alternate solution.

But yes, the preferable solution is to counterbore the female threads

Oh, but I did ask nicely in the previous post what the solution might be.