Sponsorship question - Opinions requested

[mbroberg]

I received a PM from JohnU. As you know John sells "Fantastic Feathers" as a partner to Exotic Blanks. He does not have his own website. He wants to know if he can sponsor a contest and provide prizes in the form of gift certificates he would purchase from Exotic Blanks.

My Initial thought is that as long as he sponsors the contest as "Fantastic Feathers" and doesn't make mention of the blanks availability at Exotics (everyone knows they are there any way) it may be acceptable. The prize he provides should be his own product or, if he really wants to do a gift certificates the prize should be gift certificates to the IAP vendor of the winner's choice.

I do not want to create a situation where, conceivably, many or all of Exotic Blanks partners sponsor a contest with the prizes being advertised as "Gift Certificates to Exotic Blanks." I'm afraid that if "Exotic Blanks" is mentioned in multiple contests there will be accusations of allowing unfair advertising.

If it is not allowed the individual Exotic Blanks partners will cry foul and claim they are being penalized for merely providing products that our members like and want through Exotic Blanks.

As with most things I see some up side to this also. More sponsors = more prizes. More prizes = more happy members, which is my idea of what the Bash is about.

So, what do you all have to say about it? Whatever the outcome there could possibly be some fallout but I'm OK with that. I can handle the complaints.

 

[ed4copies]

I yield to Andrew, for his input to correct my impression, but here is my current impression:

There is not a FLOOD of sponsors banging down the door. You posted how to become a sponsor, and, I think you sent "invitations" to everyone with a presence in the current IAP catalog. They are staying away in droves.

John is one of our most successful (moneywise) vendors----I doubt that let any cats out of the bag. There are a couple others--Jeff Powell, Toni who also do quite well. After that, there is a significant drop off.

IF you allow John to sponsor, he certainly should be allowed to decide where the gift certs are going to be spent, since it IS his money!! I would not cry foul if Gator Guy (Tom Barron) or Marla wanted to do the same thing with Roy and I would certainly EXPECT they would give prizes that aided THEIR sales through THEIR vendor.

As a practical matter, most of the "bigger" companies are no longer on IAP. IF we want the sponsorship program to thrive, we need many of the contests sponsored. While I have not counted, I'd guess there are 15 contests---We have limited each vendor to no more than $1000, if you don't allow John, who do you think will step up??

Ernie (Beartoothwoods) gets a lot of "cheers", is he sponsoring a contest?? Used to be a good member and he still IS a great guy---but he has no real interest in IAP---as is the case with all the established outlets.

None of our artists (or Roy's) should be any less a member of IAP---if they give prizes, IAP should certainly be willing to allow THEM to decide how they give the prizes, after all IAP is dictating the dollar value---they are willing to make that commitment. Why shouldn't they be allowed to decide where the gift certificate is to be spent?

The IAP sponsorship information strongly suggests that sponsors give GIFT certificates. Why would anyone allow their GIFT to go to a competitor??

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Ed's right on his impression of the sponsorship concept - it's nearly a dead duck...it was created when we had multiple 'up and coming' vendors competing...that is no longer really the case - everything's more status quo now.

Personally, I have no problems with anyone - business, vendor, partner, or individual member, sponsoring a contest, as long as they meet the requirements. The issue is, as Mike said, how it looks to the membership if we allow Exotics vendors to sponsor, while associating closely with Exotics (in the form of prizes).

I think it would have to be worded differently. If John wants to give a 'credit' toward purchase of HIS blanks (either through him directly or at Exotics), that would be better in my books - I'd prefer he donate his own product, but that would be one way around it, as he sells it exclusively through Ed, I think.

Is he somehow reticent about providing the product as a prize, instead? That would be a much better solution.

 

[mbroberg]

I'll ask him about using his blanks as a prize rather than a git certificate to a specific vendor. Advertising on the IAP has been a hot topic for the last several years. I normally stay out of those discussions because I generally didn't (and still don't) have a problem with vendors marketing their products. All the work that has gone into containing the advertising could be undone if all of a sudden 30+ Exotic Blanks partners sponsor contests with a direct link to Exotic Blanks. That would be followed by Classic Nib partners doing the same. If you guys, especially Jeff and the Mods, are OK with that than so am I. Keep in mind that we are only talking about the Bash. February is the only time that this MIGHT be a problem.

BTW, I have had no sponsorship response other than Exotics and Classic Nib.

 

[Brooks803]

I don't think I'm in the "significant drop off" realm on exotics so I'd be fine sponsoring a contest :tongue:

I've already committed $250 worth or prizes consisting of 2 boxes of blanks. That dollar amount is just short of a tier II contest. With the minimum dollar amount at $260 I'm just short, but since I'd need to add two more prizes total meeting those numbers wouldn't be an issue. I'd restructure my already committed prizes to better suit the prize allotment but that's something to be worked out later if this were to go through.

So that brings me to an important question. If you were to allow partners of the major vendors to sponsor, where are you going to find enough filler prizes to cover the unsponsored contests? I'm assuming the prizes I already committed were to be used to fill in on other contests. If they're pulled for my own sponsored contest will there be enough to go around? Looking at the prize list Andrew has compiled many of the partners of Exotics and Classic are listed already.

Lastly, IF this were to happen. The contest I would ask to sponsor would be the intermediate beautiful pen contest. Mainly bc my prizes would better suit that class of turner bc they are a bit advanced. The problem is, I'm chairing that contest this year. Does that become a conflict at any point? If that were the case I would increase my amount and go for a tier I contest. Probably the Russ Fairfield.

 

[GoodTurns]

More sponsors = more prizes. More prizes = more happy members, which is my idea of what the Bash is about.

I see no reason to discourage ANYONE who wants to contribute to the prize pool.

The "advertising" complainers will complain no matter how the sponsorship is structured.

just my $0.02....

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I think one bit of the collateral damage due to our sponsorship program is that people now assume that Vendors fund the bash, rather than individual member donations.

In the past, we've had scores and scores of individual members donating boxes of blanks to fund contests such as the trivia contest. This year, I'm begging for boxes of blanks...

I think we've changed it from a member-sponsored event into an almost exclusively vendor-sponsored event - and the vendors aren't really going to give enough prizes...it's been a lean year. Many of the vendors I've used in the past are not donating (William Woodwrite, Grizzly, Beartooth Woods, etc.), or are donating smaller prizes of gift certificates.

I haven't tallied any numbers, but they're all on the prize thread if you're interested. We may have to consider cutting back on Trivia prizes, unless the floodgates open.

 

[mbroberg]

Should we eliminate Sponsorship? Chalk it up to an experiment that didn't work?

JohnU said he would be fine with a gift certificate to the vendor of the winner's choice.

 

[ed4copies]

Should we eliminate Sponsorship? Chalk it up to an experiment that didn't work?

JohnU said he would be fine with a gift certificate to the vendor of the winner's choice.

What problem do you see that eliminating?

As it is, we need about 150 prizes for the bash (hasn't changed appreciably in the past 4 years). Two sponsorships bring in 8 of those, but 8 of the higher ticket prizes. EACH sponsorship takes care of one of the 15 or so contests.

The difficult fact is, we don't have the vendors we once had. Our concentration on removing advertising seems to have had the side effect of removing the involvement of most vendors. Maybe those who object to advertising will step forward to fill the void???

If we want the bash to continue, perhaps we should spend more effort convincing the vendors of the merits of sponsorship??? Or just the merits of giving prizes, to be used as the prize allocation committee sees fit??

As "ExoticBlanks.com", we will continue to support the bash. But, I believe IAP should be ENCOURAGING ALL prize donations.

 

[mredburn]

I would let it be done. They only real implication is that if a supplier to a vendor gives certificates to the vendor they supply, it looks like that vendor is sponsoring more than one contest. As long as the event reflects the Donor and not the final vendor in the contest listing I dont see the problem.
I considered sponsoring a contest but I am discussing donating pen kits across the entire bash as opposed to sponsoring an event at the moment. I considered using Gift certificates from our vendors as the prizes but was hesitant pick only one vendor. I even considered donating Amazon or Visa gift cards. I hesitated to sponser an event with my kits when I considered that the freestyle or the beautiful pen contest were the events I would want my kits used as prizes. One Im chairing and the other is the one contest I may enter.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I think that next year, if we eliminate sponsorships, we may end up with more Donation Drawing prizes, and smaller prizes for the contests. We do not need $150 prizes for a single contest - but they're good for selling raffle tickets...

I see that as a very good thing, as the Donation Drawing is the point of the Bash...

I liked the simpler, smaller Bash of years past - with more member donated prizes...we've industrialized it too much with our Tiers and Sponsorships, I think.

 

[mbroberg]

What problem do you see that eliminating?

Maybe this one:

I think one bit of the collateral damage due to our sponsorship program is that people now assume that Vendors fund the bash, rather than individual member donations.

In the past, we've had scores and scores of individual members donating boxes of blanks to fund contests such as the trivia contest. This year, I'm begging for boxes of blanks...

Or maybe it won't eliminate anything. I'm searching for reasons we can't get pries or sponsors.

Andrew is saying that it is tough to even gets Boxes of Blanks. We never had difficulty, to this degree, getting prizes in the past. Then we instituted sponsorship and we can't get prizes or sponsors. Is the sponsorship program the reason why? Is it the advertising restrictions? Combo of both or something else? I don't know. Based on last years response to the Sponsorship program I was expecting a better turn out this year. It ain't happening.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

If we need 150, we're about half way there, I'd guess...and I'm nearly done...so it's going to be a much leaner year.

Perhaps only a first and second prize.

Edit: Maybe a bit of cheerleading help would boost the member donations. Feel free to post anything you want to at least fund the trivia contest!

 

[ed4copies]

Suppose a few of the Exotics' artists wanted to donate a blank, that could be used anywhere. Any objections to that??

I CAN send out a request and I expect it would get results, but other vendors and the "no advertising" crowd may complain, so I want the "blessing" before I ask.

 

[mbroberg]

Suppose a few of the Exotics' artists wanted to donate a blank, that could be used anywhere. Any objections to that?? I CAN send out a request and I expect it would get results, but other vendors and the "no advertising" crowd may complain, so I want the "blessing" before I ask.

IAP members are allowed to donate prizes to the bash. Some IAP members happen to have partnered with a vendor.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[ed4copies]

I will take that as absolution, thank you, Father!!

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Absolution comes after the fact - that's an Indulgence!

 

[mbroberg]

I will take that as absolution, thank you, Father!!

Merely a blessing.

 

[mbroberg]

Based upon the comments above it seems to me that we should allow vendor partners to sponsor a contest it they wish to do so. Jonathon asked about sponsoring a contest that he is chairing. I don't think that is a good idea. In the past we have had at least one vendor that I know of attempt to hold a contest in which he was manipulating the outcome to his advantage. That vendor is no longer here. I don't think any of our current vendors would do this but I don't want to set he precedent.

As to the question of a sponsor offering a gift certificate to a specific vendor (probably the vendor the sponsor is partnered with) or being allowed to specify what his prize is to be used for, I personally am opposed to that. There is the question of advertising. Perception is reality. If it is perceived as advertising then it is advertising. Advertising is an issue that I have very little concern about. Months and months of work went into restructuring the advertising practices on the IAP to make them less intrusive. So for me, at this point, it's not so much the perception of advertising that worries me as it is the under minding of all the hours of hard work that Jeff, Ed, the Mods and others devoted to this issue. So, if Jeff and the Mods are OK with allowing multiple vendor partners offer Gift Certificates to a single vendor then that is a non-issue to me.

So, we will allow vendor partners (or anyone for that matter) sponsor contests. I would like some more feedback on the prize issue. Are we sure (especially Jeff and the Mods) we want to allow allow vendor partners to offer gift certificates exclusively to the vendor they are partnered with? Will it be viewed as excessive advertising? Do we care if it is since it would only occur during the Bash?

 

[Brooks803]

Based upon the comments above it seems to me that we should allow vendor partners to sponsor a contest it they wish to do so. Jonathon asked about sponsoring a contest that he is chairing. I don't think that is a good idea. In the past we have had at least one vendor that I know of attempt to hold a contest in which he was manipulating the outcome to his advantage. That vendor is no longer here. I don't think any of our current vendors would do this but I don't want to set he precedent.

As to the question of a sponsor offering a gift certificate to a specific vendor (probably the vendor the sponsor is partnered with) or being allowed to specify what his prize is to be used for, I personally am opposed to that. There is the question of advertising. Perception is reality. If it is perceived as advertising then it is advertising. Advertising is an issue that I have very little concern about. Months and months of work went into restructuring the advertising practices on the IAP to make them less intrusive. So for me, at this point, it's not so much the perception of advertising that worries me as it is the under minding of all the hours of hard work that Jeff, Ed, the Mods and others devoted to this issue. So, if Jeff and the Mods are OK with allowing multiple vendor partners offer Gift Certificates to a single vendor then that is a non-issue to me.

So, we will allow vendor partners (or anyone for that matter) sponsor contests. I would like some more feedback on the prize issue. Are we sure (especially Jeff and the Mods) we want to allow allow vendor partners to offer gift certificates exclusively to the vendor they are partnered with? Will it be viewed as excessive advertising? Do we care if it is since it would only occur during the Bash?

I'm perfectly fine with not being able to sponsor the contest I'm running. I only asked just in case it wasn't seen as an issue bc my prize donation would best suit that particular contest over the others.

Also, instead of gift certificates I would like to use my own blanks as prizes. I didn't see if that aspect of sponsorship had been determined "OK" or not. The decision on that does alter my choices for which contest I'd sponsor but no matter what I'm happy to sponsor a contest.

 

[mbroberg]

Using your own product would be fine.