So you think you want to be a Vendor

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Smitty37

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Because it's getting near the end of the year, I started getting preliminary data together for end of year tax planning and I got some interesting stuff.

I am a small vendor processing only about 1000 - 1200 orders per year. Here is what I found.

The cost (minus postage or carrier fees) of handling an order is close to $3.00. That could vary some depending on how you set up and could be lower if you have enough volume or have high value orders.

Here are things that cost.

Packaging
postage labels and printing
invoice and/or packing list printing
Computer
Website/store
Postage printing website
Credit Card handling (I use PayPal)
PayPal/Credit Card Fees

In addition to the costs above there are some interesting other costs

When you order from say China or Taiwan, the individual items might or might not be labeled "made in XXXX" when you sell them they have to be so labeled. Your labor.

You'll probably also what your business name on the items you sell so you'll be labeling each individual package (kits for instance). Your labor

Spare parts like tubes and transmissions will probably come in bulk packaging and you'll need to sort and repackage. Your labor

Some other interesting things that you will need to consider.

The customer who calls or emails and says "a little while ago I bought some of your XYZ kits and I'm just getting around to doing them now and
the first one I opened has a missing refill spring - can you send me a replacement".... So you send a replacement then check and find that he bought the kits over a year ago.

The "customer" who calls and emails and says "I got some of your kits and there are a few missing parts"...and gives you a list and says can I buy these from you, if you have the parts you either send them free or charge next to nothing....you find that this person has never even been a customer.

The customer who buys 1 $1.00 item from your store, pays by paypal so you only actually get $.66 and then complains that your shipping charge is outrageous.

The customer who "forgets" something on almost every order and emails asking if you can add it .... he almost always remembers just after you finished packing his order

The customer who emails or calls with a complaint about a kit saying they bought it from you and it's a product you have never even seen much less carry in your store....the customer than says "well it isn't marked but I was sure I got it from you". That isn't too bad but then there is the one every now and then who insists he did get it from you and that you are just trying to duck your responsibility.

The customer who calls checking on an order that shipped yesterday and you emailed them the tracking number.

The customer who calls asking where an order is that you shipped a month ago and the post office says was delivered 3 weeks ago.

Don't take this wrong, I am not complaining (such things keep life interesting and I enjoy dealing with people, sometimes I can make them happy.) but if those kinds of things annoy you or make you angry --- don't become a small vendor selling in this venue.
 
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kovalcik

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But what about dealing with all of us GREAT customers??

BTW. I have a kit that I am sure I got from you back in 2011 that is missing a few parts. Actually it came with only a refill and it is dry. Can you help me out?
 

underdog

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Us Customers sure are a pain in the tuckus ain't we?

:wink:

Saying where I work is sometimes "This job would be great if it weren't for the customers".

If we didn't have the customers though, I suppose we wouldn't have a job...:tongue:
 

Smitty37

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AMEN!

You missed, call to ask you all about how to make pens, but then buy their supplies somewhere else!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::frown::frown:
That's one that guys like you and Roy have, that I don't....I never became a world famous pen maker..:biggrin::biggrin:
 

Smitty37

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Yea, but you're living the dream Smitty :)

Believe me sometimes that dream is a nightmare, but most of us do enjoy doing what we do and helping out you turners.
Smitty you forgot the guy who emails you about you charging him $6 for shipping and it cost you $7 :rolleyes:
I also didn't mention the ones that go to "deals" forums and pay more for items then they'd pay a vendor for the same items.
 

avbill

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Let's turn it around LeRoy:


4 times in the last 2 years Customers coming up to me and complaining about this and that about their pen. that they bought from me yet this was the first time i ever was at that Art Show!:biggrin:

I just deal with the human element
 

08K.80

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You could eliminate all the problems with the people claiming they are customers and purchased whatever from you... with customer numbers.

Then the number can be entered and it will list everything the person has ordered and when.
Just a thought.

Some people expect others to support them.
 

BigShed

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I find that this forum is becoming more and more selling/vendor oriented, but this thread takes the cake.:mad:

I was under the impression Smitty that becoming a vendor was a voluntary decision on your part?

It is very unseemly for a vendor to publicly whinge about all the little annoyances that come with being in business.

Only yesterday I was exchanging emails with a long standing member of IAP and we were both talking about why we were not spending as much time on IAP as we used to, and not enjoying that reduced time to the same extent.
This thread goes some way to explaining that.

Maybe it is time you pay for your own vendor forum so you can whinge in there?
 

The Penguin

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I disagree with you saying this place is "more and more selling/vendor oriented" - you can easily avoid threads selling stuff.

as this site grows, some commercialism is expected. Some people here have found a niche wherein they enjoy making stuff to sell to other penmakers. This is a natural place to offer those items for sale. If those small vendors had to "wholesale" those items to a larger retailer - you'd be paying more for them. I for one...am a cheap sunovagun. If I can save a nickel, I will.

again - it's very easy to stay out of forums that sell stuff. When I browse here - I use the "new posts" link above. I start by reading the thread title, then glance over to the forum it is in...if it's in a forum that I have no interest in...I don't open it.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment about vendors "whining" about the annoyances/cost of "this and that" being discouraging for the rest of us to read. Not pointing any fingers here - but one vendor comes to mind with those types of posts.

and since I'm on my soapbox - remember that this site is provided to you and everyone else here free of charge! I'm not a moderator here - but I have moderated other sites much larger than this and it always amazes me how many people complain about "XYZ Widgets Forum" that is provided free, with the only basic rules is that civility applies to all posts. If we had to pay a subscription fee - then I would expect more restrictions to be placed on certain users or types of posts.

I would also remind you that there is a lot of information that is swapped freely here between users. To me - that is priceless.
 
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BigShed

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Yes Penguin, using New Posts and only opening posts that show some promise to be interesting is exactly what I do, that is also exactly why I spend less time on this forum.

Whether this forum is provided free of charge is not really relevant to any of that.

This forum used to be where pen turners discussed how to make pens, it is becoming more a captive audience for a few vendors.

Like you, I also moderate a reasonably large forum, with a wider audience than this, but I would hate to see that becoming that as commercial as this one, and then to see one of the vendors whinge about his difficult customers.

I don't need to be reminded about the exchange of information here, I have been, and will hopefully continue to be, an active contributor in that.
 
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The Penguin

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Yes Penguin, using New Posts and only opening posts that show some promise to be interesting is exactly what I do, that is also exactly why I spend less time on this forum.

Whether this forum is provided free of charge is not really relevant to any of that.

This forum used to be where pen turners discussed how to make pens, it is becoming more a captive audience for a few vendors.

Like you, I also moderate a reasonably large forum, with a wider audience than this, but I would hate to see that becoming that as commercial as this one, and then to see one of the vendors whinge about his difficult customers.
still disagree with that.

from my understanding - vendors are not allowed to jump into threads and post info about their products...so I don't understand why you say this.
 

Smitty37

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I find that this forum is becoming more and more selling/vendor oriented, but this thread takes the cake.:mad:

I was under the impression Smitty that becoming a vendor was a voluntary decision on your part?

It is very unseemly for a vendor to publicly whinge about all the little annoyances that come with being in business.

Only yesterday I was exchanging emails with a long standing member of IAP and we were both talking about why we were not spending as much time on IAP as we used to, and not enjoying that reduced time to the same extent.
This thread goes some way to explaining that.

Maybe it is time you pay for your own vendor forum so you can whinge in there?
Get a Life.....as with any thread if you don't like it don't read it. Most people took it in the manner in which it was intended which, by the way, is not whining.
 
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BigShed

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Yes Penguin, using New Posts and only opening posts that show some promise to be interesting is exactly what I do, that is also exactly why I spend less time on this forum.

Whether this forum is provided free of charge is not really relevant to any of that.

This forum used to be where pen turners discussed how to make pens, it is becoming more a captive audience for a few vendors.

Like you, I also moderate a reasonably large forum, with a wider audience than this, but I would hate to see that becoming that as commercial as this one, and then to see one of the vendors whinge about his difficult customers.
still disagree with that.

from my understanding - vendors are not allowed to jump into threads and post info about their products...so I don't understand why you say this.

Really? One only needs to look at the (very large and in your face) signatures of these vendors! See above.
 

The Penguin

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Yes Penguin, using New Posts and only opening posts that show some promise to be interesting is exactly what I do, that is also exactly why I spend less time on this forum.

Whether this forum is provided free of charge is not really relevant to any of that.

This forum used to be where pen turners discussed how to make pens, it is becoming more a captive audience for a few vendors.

Like you, I also moderate a reasonably large forum, with a wider audience than this, but I would hate to see that becoming that as commercial as this one, and then to see one of the vendors whinge about his difficult customers.
still disagree with that.

from my understanding - vendors are not allowed to jump into threads and post info about their products...so I don't understand why you say this.

Really? One only needs to look at the (very large and in your face) signatures of these vendors!
solution for you - in the UserCP, on the left side are 2 things you can do...under Settings and Options "Edit Ignore List" - ignore any vendors you don't want to see.

the other under "Edit Options", click that and then scroll down to "Thread Display Options" - uncheck the "show signatures" box, then go to the bottom and click "save changes"

there you have it - instant decommercialization!
 

Smitty37

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Really? One only needs to look at the (very large and in your face) signatures of these vendors![/quote]
solution for you - in the UserCP, on the left side are 2 things you can do...under Settings and Options "Edit Ignore List" - ignore any vendors you don't want to see.

the other under "Edit Options", click that and then scroll down to "Thread Display Options" - uncheck the "show signatures" box, then go to the bottom and click "save changes"

there you have it - instant decommercialization!
The size of signatures allowed was determined by management after a very long discussion on the subject when the major rules changes were made something over a year ago.

BTW BigShed I think you should go to school on your own posts...you've used more space whining and arguing about my post than I used offering a little advice and having a little fun.
 

cwolfs69

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stop whining smitty. if its to much hassle become a cab driver. gets a little old hearing people complain about things they create themselves. grow up
 
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Smitty37

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stop whining smitty. if its to much hassle become a cab driver. gets a little old hearing people complain about things they create themselves. grow up
I shouldn't have to tell you this Charlie....but if you read my OP you should have noticed that the first part was a reminder of potential vendors of the not-so-obvious costs involve in the business....It was not complaining.

The middle was obviously tongue-in-cheek but the message was if you don't like people and you don't like responding to "unusual" requests or demands don't get in this business. Maybe I should have put a smiley face by each of them, but I give my readers credit enough that I assumed they would know that without the :)

The last part stated that I wasn't complaining and I do like it. If you took it to be a complaint you just read it wrong Charlie.:wink:

Besides, I'm too old to drive a cab.:biggrin:
 

Tom T

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I read as many posts on this site as I have time. They are all generally good.
I have never met Mr. Smitty as far as I know. I do enjoy his posts as well as most responses to them.
Any day I am on this sight is a good day. I learn so much. Thank you all for the help.
 

Smitty37

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Need I remind everyone to please be nice! Telling folks to get a life and to grow up is not nice discourse. It is ok to disagree with someone but please do it tactfully.

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
Get a life. Grow up.

and call me back!

:tongue:
Sorry Curtis - having given one and gotten one of those I thought they were pretty mild rebukes. :)
 

robutacion

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OK, OK gentleman, you didn't think that I was going to be seated here, reading all this "stuff" and not say something, huh...???:wink:

Lets, "dismantle" the issue and see what it all means, shall we...???

When I'm within a group of people, either face to face or on the web/Internet, that are bonded buy some common interests, such as forums like IAP, we all are in as guests, we are all also "bonded" by the membership requirement, that "as been" the same until recently, regardless if you are a regular member or a vendor, there is, if Jeff keeps his word on what he described to us as the criteria to be accepted as a candidate for the "Vendor Forum". At this time, I would believe that, anyone that joins/joined to IAP with the sole purpose of selling some of their stuff, is still allowed as a regular member but not accepted in the vendor forum.

This brings an interesting question, and that is, if this member does not contribute in any way shape or form, than have an add regularly/occasionally, I wonder, what Jeff is going to do with them...!

Make no mistake, selling on IAP is not and never will be an easy task, if not for all the rules and regulations that applied until now to the "classifieds", with the added new addition of the "vendors forum" recently, you have a "bunch of very educated and skilled people that, knows what's what when it comes to buying stuff.

The "quality and exquisiteness" required/expected from vendors, by most of the more skilled and experienced members is sometimes a double edged sword, as many of the newer and less experienced members, can easily be overwhelmed and enticed to buy and try products that are still far beyond their present capabilities, that will cause frustration and a sense of failure that can easily put them off pen turning, all together. I'm specifically referring to blanks and techniques that, they are yet not ready for...!

Its easy to be influenciated on IAP, with so much skill and ingenuity, among the more experience members. On the other hand, it can also accelerate and improve the learning curve of any new turner, young or old.

At this point, some of you will be thinking, what in a heck has this to do with Smithys' opening post and all the "commotion" it provoked....??? Bare with me, you will have your answer, very shortly...!

If a vendor on IAP is also a contributing asset to any issues that I raised everyday from "regular" members, and not always related with the products that he or she sells, is doubly important that that vendor provides the correct/accurate and applicative information, particularly if the issue is raised by a new turner, there is a very important "association" in between the trust and confidence that, the new turner will assimilate from those responses.

From the vendors' point of view, the more proficient members are with the products he/she sells, the less chances for problems and complains however, human nature being what it is, we find people from both ends of the spectrum to use to most "interesting" excuses/reasons to validate their claim. "Some" vendors will provide any excuses to why its the buyer's fault, the same goes to the buyers that and, many due to their lack of experience, and taken by that enthusiasm I referred above, misused the products (blanks or kits) and destroyed or damaged them but claimed, is not their fault...!

Being on both sides of these situations myself, as a IAP member and also a vendor here and on eBay, I could provide endless hours of typing, that would make my longest posts look like a drop in the ocean, and you don't want that so, lets just say that, what Smithy's is saying is correct, as is some of the comments posted afterwards.

I'm a strong avid supporter of free speech, being it whatever one may feel that he/she wants to share/write, right or wrong is irrelevant, there are things that we agreed with, and things that we don't agreed with however, I tend to get "concerned" when I see someone trying to cause trouble by, deliberately stirring people for the sake of disruption and personal vendettas...!

I get particularly upset when I see accusations being thrown at IAP by someone that should know better. The Australian Wood Workers Forum was an experience that I will never forget, I gave a lot and received a lot however, not all was good, the very reason why I was banned for life on that forum, after years of contribution, was mainly/holly due to the mentality imprinted among most of its administration and some members on the issue of "classifieds, vendors" from anyone that is not one of their main business and supports, a "boys' club" that I hope never see here...!

From the words of IAP owner and person in charge, Jeff has very recently stated that, and I quote "Our vendors are one of our most valuable resources." so, if you have a problem with that, the Aussie forum is a much better place for you...!:wink::biggrin:

I'm very disappointed with some statements/commends make by some, shame on you...!:frown:

PS: And while I accept Smithy's comments about being a vendor is, I welcome anyone that would like to try to be a vendor, I let you find out all by yourself, what is all about...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George
 
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ashaw

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Smitty you forgot one item insurance. My policy went up 30% and no claims. They said it is going up 40% more next year. What cost me 600.00/year for 1millon dollar liability will now be over $1,000.00. Who knows were it will go in the next 5 years.
 

Smitty37

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Smitty you forgot one item insurance. My policy went up 30% and no claims. They said it is going up 40% more next year. What cost me 600.00/year for 1millon dollar liability will now be over $1,000.00. Who knows were it will go in the next 5 years.
I just wanted potential vendors to get the knowledge that there are a lot of costs involved - some of which are quite high and not obvious.

If one looks, there are a lot of posts that inquire about becoming a seller, either of finished pens, kits, blanks or other Pen Making items. A lot of the cost items I mentioned will apply in any venue - I don't think I mentioned any that are specific to this venue.

I didn't mention things like advertising, shipping insurance, postage, business license fees, liability insurance, inventory insurance, etc. because they're pretty obvious.
 

brownsfn2

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I have never understood why people say IAP is too commercial. I have never and I mean never received a pop-up ad, a banner ad, a video I was forced to watch to see content, a click-through ad to get to the content, a side panel ad based on my browser cookies or web cache, or anything that makes a real commercial site annoying. Look at almost any large commercial site on the internet and you will see some or all of these things. I have never seen any of these on IAP.

Occasionally I will see someone mention a product or offer assistance or a helpful opinion and they happen to be a vendor. Heck they might even mention outright that they are a vendor and that they post in the classified or selling section. They might even have a signature line that says so. I have never been forced to read, forced to buy, made not to ignore, agree to terms, etc. etc. in order to receive their advice or opinion.

So what I do see in IAP is that the vendors that support IAP who care enough to offer helpful tips, resources, or even just interesting stories (I found the customer stories from Smitty funny) are scolded for posting. Made to believe that they are commercializing IAP because they mentioned a product or happen to sell the product they are talking about. Or <gasp> we might find out that they are a vendor by glancing at their signature line.

There is a reason why we are not forced to read a bunch of ads when we log into IAP. I am not Jeff so I can only speculate but I would say it is because of user donations and the vendors that pay to run ads in a section on IAP that you don't even have to look at.

A few years ago I had a problem with a product that was totally my fault. The vendor sent me a new piece and I offered to pay them for it. He told me to make a donation to IAP instead and trusted that I would do it. I gladly complied.

The only "vendor" issue we have at IAP is how "we" (not all) sometimes scold vendors. With the amount of support they provide I just think it is wrong.

Sorry for the rant. I feel better though. :)
 

HamTurns

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Smitty - Thank you for your post.

I, like a lot of other people that make things think about becoming a vendor of their products.

Your message is "real world", not some scenario that might happen. It really helps those of us that are considering taking that next step to becoming a vendor by anwering some of those questions (that we wouldn't even think to ask in the first place).

I appreciate your post and did not take it as whining in any way. You stated at the bottom of your post that some of the things you encounter are why you are a vendor. That makes sense.

Keep up the good work and keep informing the rest of us what it really takes to do a job like yours.

Happy turning
Tom
 

Smitty37

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This thread went in an entirely different direction than I intended. The first dozen or so replys seemed to have gotten the right idea - then the negativism started. I'm going to say this then stop following the thread.

Right off the bat --- if anyone read the entire post it is obvious that I was telling people what to expect, not complaining. If I tell someone "If you don't like to get wet, don't become a life guard." isn't saying I don't like to get wet.

In fact, the final paragraph - highlighted in read - not only said that I was not complaining it also said that I enjoy my business.

It is beyond me why some people decided that I must be lying when I posted that I enjoy my business, because they clearly took the post to be me issuing a complaint about my customers and decided to rant not only at me but also at the IAP. And, as always seems to happen, they throw in "IAP has gotten to commercialized and that's why I don't come here as much any more" - Well I have been a member for only about 4 years and I know from my own observation that this site is a LOT less commercialized than it was when I joined. When I joined there were constant exchanges and debates between vendors in the general forums. Much, much less so now.

As Jeff and all of the moderators can and probably will attest, issues between me and the management/moderators sometimes arise and now and then our discussions can become a little "warm" but we settle them between us and not by whining in a thread that when started had nothing to say to or about the IAP. Heck, Curtis once told me "You'd argue with a fence post." (he's right - I happen to enjoy arguing).

The only complaining in this thread came from those ranting that I was complaining about my customers - thankfully my customers know better.

But again, if you don't enjoy the kind of contact mentioned in the OP don't become a vendor.....I do enjoy it, often it makes my day when a customer calls with a problem and I can help him (I could say "or her" but unfortunately none of the lovely women here have called me:biggrin:)out.
 
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