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WriteON

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I'm giving thought to a scroll saw for some small projects. Not looking for intense scrolling(for now)...just want to play around, get started and see where it goes. Please recommend... Prefer to buy a quality unit for up to $1000. Thanks, Frank
 
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KenB259

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Dec 24, 2017
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Bought my wife a King. She couldn't be happier. It runs very very smoothly. I believe we paid 600 including a stand, on sale at Woodcraft right about a year ago.


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Bob in SF

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jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
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NJ, USA.
As many people here know I am a scrollsaw artisan and that is my primary hobby. Have been scrolling for close to 40 years now. I started years ago with a 2 speed Dremel combination pin and plain end saw. Quickly moved up to a Hegner 18" ( German made) and it is a well designed well built industrial saw that will last a life time. I then expanded into the RBI line which is a USA made and own a Hawk 220VS and a Hawk 226VS saw. The 220 is my work horse and has never failed me. These saws are well built and are too industrial saw and last a life time. They are made for the serious sawer. Quiet and no vibration which is something you want when scrolling. I then fell into a deal when Home Depot was selling out the Dewalt 788 saws, that I could not pass up so I bought that one too but gets very little use. It has a different linkage system that takes some getting use to but works well. It is a sought after type #1 saw. They sold the rights and went to China and their saws have all kinds of problems before they started working out the kinks and they are a type #2 which helps tell the difference.

I am not going to tell you what saw to buy because as you see already there are different strokes for different folks as with any tools. I can give you FACTS if you want when you see something you may like. Again I am not knocking saws but be careful when people say they have an Excalibur saw. They were a good saw when built by Sayco but have been shipped to China over 5 years ago and I would stay far away from them. The King saw is an Excalibur saw just cloned and called that here in the USA. In Canada it is called an Excelsior. They are made in Twain where the original Excalibur was made. Pegus saw is fairly new and is built off the same platform as the EX and King and does get good reviews. It is about a $900 saw to $1000 with stand. I highly recommend getting a foot switch preferably a deadman switch to operate the saw. It saves wear and tear on the saw switch which is a vulnerable source because many fill with dust and that is usually a problem area. Mounted on top.

Stay away from the lower end saws such as Delta, Wen, Dremel, and any other $250 saws or any saw where you need a tool to change blades. . You will truly be disappointed and stop the hobby quickly. Always buy good quality blades. I prefer Flying Dutchman blades from Mike's Workshop. Pegas is a good blade also but both will have a different cut performance. But whatever you train with your body becomes use to. I stay away from Delta and all those other brand names. They do not last as long as good Swedish or German blades. Many different sizes and styles and this comes down to what you are cutting and complexity and material. You practice and learn what each can do and then usually fall in love with a few favorites. I use mainy a #5 FD Penguin Silver reverse tooth blade for 90% of my cutting.

I suggest you look at Craigs list and get a feel for some saws that are very good and get for lower price. Many times people take up the hobby and go all in and then just fall out for one reason or other and a good saw can be had for a good price. Anyway will tell you this and this is a no nonsense hint and is why many people bow out quickly, you need to be a patient person!!!!!!!!!! A scrollsaw cuts very slow and is a precision saw. You can not force your work or you will not like the results. As I said some saws cut more aggressive than others but still slow. Cutting fret work can be a a real mind relaxer. Have fun and happy scrolling!!

One last thing here is the web site to the very best scrollsawing site out there. Very knowledgeable people and friendly and willing to help. Ask these and any other questions there and they will get answered. They too have library with patterns and other good stuff. As here these questions have been asked and answered many times over but you maybe able to scroll through some past ones to get help. https://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/
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MPVic

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Dec 23, 2011
Messages
616
Location
Hamilton, ON, Canada
As many people here know I am a scrollsaw artisan and that is my primary hobby. Have been scrolling for close to 40 years now. I started years ago with a 2 speed Dremel combination pin and plain end saw. Quickly moved up to a Hegner 18" ( German made) and it is a well designed well built industrial saw that will last a life time. I then expanded into the RBI line which is a USA made and own a Hawk 220VS and a Hawk 226VS saw. The 220 is my work horse and has never failed me. These saws are well built and are too industrial saw and last a life time. They are made for the serious sawer. Quiet and no vibration which is something you want when scrolling. I then fell into a deal when Home Depot was selling out the Dewalt 788 saws, that I could not pass up so I bought that one too but gets very little use. It has a different linkage system that takes some getting use to but works well. It is a sought after type #1 saw. They sold the rights and went to China and their saws have all kinds of problems before they started working out the kinks and they are a type #2 which helps tell the difference.

I am not going to tell you what saw to buy because as you see already there are different strokes for different folks as with any tools. I can give you FACTS if you want when you see something you may like. Again I am not knocking saws but be careful when people say they have an Excalibur saw. They were a good saw when built by Sayco but have been shipped to China over 5 years ago and I would stay far away from them. The King saw is an Excalibur saw just cloned and called that here in the USA. In Canada it is called an Excelsior. They are made in Twain where the original Excalibur was made. Pegus saw is fairly new and is built off the same platform as the EX and King and does get good reviews. It is about a $900 saw to $1000 with stand. I highly recommend getting a foot switch preferably a deadman switch to operate the saw. It saves wear and tear on the saw switch which is a vulnerable source because many fill with dust and that is usually a problem area. Mounted on top.

Stay away from the lower end saws such as Delta, Wen, Dremel, and any other $250 saws or any saw where you need a tool to change blades. . You will truly be disappointed and stop the hobby quickly. Always buy good quality blades. I prefer Flying Dutchman blades from Mike's Workshop. Pegas is a good blade also but both will have a different cut performance. But whatever you train with your body becomes use to. I stay away from Delta and all those other brand names. They do not last as long as good Swedish or German blades. Many different sizes and styles and this comes down to what you are cutting and complexity and material. You practice and learn what each can do and then usually fall in love with a few favorites. I use mainy a #5 FD Penguin Silver reverse tooth blade for 90% of my cutting.

I suggest you look at Craigs list and get a feel for some saws that are very good and get for lower price. Many times people take up the hobby and go all in and then just fall out for one reason or other and a good saw can be had for a good price. Anyway will tell you this and this is a no nonsense hint and is why many people bow out quickly, you need to be a patient person!!!!!!!!!! A scrollsaw cuts very slow and is a precision saw. You can not force your work or you will not like the results. As I said some saws cut more aggressive than others but still slow. Cutting fret work can be a a real mind relaxer. Have fun and happy scrolling!!

One last thing here is the web site to the very best scrollsawing site out there. Very knowledgeable people and friendly and willing to help. Ask these and any other questions there and they will get answered. They too have library with patterns and other good stuff. As here these questions have been asked and answered many times over but you maybe able to scroll through some past ones to get help. https://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/
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Awesome exhibit JT - thanks.
 

leehljp

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Feb 6, 2005
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9,329
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
An individual preference: Tilting head instead of tilting table.

When I moved overseas in '86, my dad bought me a Craftsman 12 inch bandsaw with a tilting head. Sometimes that design is called a "ships saw". I thoroughly enjoyed being able to saw at an angle without a tilting table. Since being back in the States from 2011, I have bought a 14 inch BS and throughly dislike tilting tables. I was given a new DeWalt scroll saw, and while it is OK, I dislike the tilting table. I can do much more precise work on a level table with a tilting head. With tilting tables you not only have to control the direction of cut you have to fight gravity on the downward side.

I made up my mind that if I ever upgraded, I would get an Excaliber type, for that very reason.

Listen to JohnT. Even when we disagree, I agree with him! :oops: 😁
 

WriteON

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Aug 21, 2013
Messages
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Location
Florida & Pa
As many people here know I am a scrollsaw artisan and that is my primary hobby. Have been scrolling for close to 40 years now. I started years ago with a 2 speed Dremel combination pin and plain end saw. Quickly moved up to a Hegner 18" ( German made) and it is a well designed well built industrial saw that will last a life time. I then expanded into the RBI line which is a USA made and own a Hawk 220VS and a Hawk 226VS saw. The 220 is my work horse and has never failed me. These saws are well built and are too industrial saw and last a life time. They are made for the serious sawer. Quiet and no vibration which is something you want when scrolling. I then fell into a deal when Home Depot was selling out the Dewalt 788 saws, that I could not pass up so I bought that one too but gets very little use. It has a different linkage system that takes some getting use to but works well. It is a sought after type #1 saw. They sold the rights and went to China and their saws have all kinds of problems before they started working out the kinks and they are a type #2 which helps tell the difference.

I am not going to tell you what saw to buy because as you see already there are different strokes for different folks as with any tools. I can give you FACTS if you want when you see something you may like. Again I am not knocking saws but be careful when people say they have an Excalibur saw. They were a good saw when built by Sayco but have been shipped to China over 5 years ago and I would stay far away from them. The King saw is an Excalibur saw just cloned and called that here in the USA. In Canada it is called an Excelsior. They are made in Twain where the original Excalibur was made. Pegus saw is fairly new and is built off the same platform as the EX and King and does get good reviews. It is about a $900 saw to $1000 with stand. I highly recommend getting a foot switch preferably a deadman switch to operate the saw. It saves wear and tear on the saw switch which is a vulnerable source because many fill with dust and that is usually a problem area. Mounted on top.

Stay away from the lower end saws such as Delta, Wen, Dremel, and any other $250 saws or any saw where you need a tool to change blades. . You will truly be disappointed and stop the hobby quickly. Always buy good quality blades. I prefer Flying Dutchman blades from Mike's Workshop. Pegas is a good blade also but both will have a different cut performance. But whatever you train with your body becomes use to. I stay away from Delta and all those other brand names. They do not last as long as good Swedish or German blades. Many different sizes and styles and this comes down to what you are cutting and complexity and material. You practice and learn what each can do and then usually fall in love with a few favorites. I use mainy a #5 FD Penguin Silver reverse tooth blade for 90% of my cutting.

I suggest you look at Craigs list and get a feel for some saws that are very good and get for lower price. Many times people take up the hobby and go all in and then just fall out for one reason or other and a good saw can be had for a good price. Anyway will tell you this and this is a no nonsense hint and is why many people bow out quickly, you need to be a patient person!!!!!!!!!! A scrollsaw cuts very slow and is a precision saw. You can not force your work or you will not like the results. As I said some saws cut more aggressive than others but still slow. Cutting fret work can be a a real mind relaxer. Have fun and happy scrolling!!

One last thing here is the web site to the very best scrollsawing site out there. Very knowledgeable people and friendly and willing to help. Ask these and any other questions there and they will get answered. They too have library with patterns and other good stuff. As here these questions have been asked and answered many times over but you maybe able to scroll through some past ones to get help. https://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/
View attachment 247316View attachment 247317View attachment 247318
Thanks for posting... you're quite creative and have seriously good/great hands.
 

MRDucks2

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Jul 17, 2017
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Bristow, IN
I bought my Excalibur for the tilting and the fact that Sayco was there in Texas, which is where I was at when I upgraded from a $180 Porter Cable (not recommended but helped me understand I loved the ability of a scroll saw).

In all honesty, you should be able to get a quality saw in your price range. Figured something was up when the Excalibur clones began showing up with different names. I was down to an Excalibur (Seyco) or RBI Hawk. I would have loved a Hegner, but it was out of my price range. I have since seen them on Craigs list from time to time for under $1000, so keep a look out.

A couple of other items. First, after looking at the stand that you could get for the Excalibur, I went with the sub $40 metal stand with not top or shelf from Harbor Freight. I like having some work area on the stand to each side of the saw, it has a huge amount of adjust and I could tilt it down slightly in the front fit comfortable scrolling from a sitting position. I believe the ability to tilt is a feature of either the RBI or Hegner stand.

Also, Flying Dutchman, as John said, can't be beat for blades though I believe Mike may have sold out to Wooden Teddy Bear or Cherry Tree. I forget. Get a selection of blades, understand their use and then practice by making something several times a week for a month or so. It will get you used to the saw and understanding how it and the blades works in different ways. Then you will end up with your favorites. Another enjoyable hobby.
 

jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
Messages
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NJ, USA.
For FD blades you can still look for Mike's workshop or wooden Teddy Bear. The Jet is a knock off of the Excalibur. These saws all use the double link system which the theory is takes vibration out of the saw because the arms are shorter compared to Hegner or Rbi. But it is just a theory. The con with the Jet is you can not use a standard reverse tooth blade. The blade holders will not allow the bottom teeth which are reversed to penetrate the table top. You have to use a reverse skip tooth blade if looking for the reverse teeth action. Yes tilting heads are all the rage with these style saws but you have to remember that tilting is only used when do inlay work or work that requires a slanting of the blade. Most scroll work is done on a flat table. I have no problem tilting the table because that is what I grew up with. You start with a tilting head then you learn on it. The other bugaboo with Jet is the speed control goes bad more so than others in that category. Dewalt was a problem and many people place a plastic bag over it to keep dust out. This is an ongoing problem with all these type saws. My suggestion if you are looking at the Jet then switch focus to the Pegas saw. Better saw with better clamps.

Forgot, it was mentioned about titlting the whole saw and is done with the stand itself or placing something in the back legs to raise it. With that 2 things happen. Dust now falls in your lap and you now have to concentrate on sliding downward on the table. People complained about tilting the table and sliding the pieces as you tilt well same happens when you lift the back end of the saw. Now it can make more comfortable to saw because less neck pressure and straighter back. Everyone makes that decision on their own but you do need to have the saw on stable ground. A shed wood floor will not be good. Solid is the key to take out any vibration from unlevel stand. Just like a lathe needs to be level and stable so does a scrollsaw.

Many people add some sort of dust collection at the saw and some saws have holes in the table to help this and hook up a shop vac but to me all that extra noise is not worth the effort but again everyone has their ways. Magnifier lights to me is a must which is an add-on. And as I said a deadman foot switch is best.
 
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howsitwork

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Jul 9, 2016
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Thirsk
All I can say is I have a Hegner and I love it's precision and quality. Their blades are pretty good too . I am not in JT's league but I do like quality tools.
 

granny369

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Dec 23, 2012
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Troy, Texas
I have a Fretmaster scrollsaw! Bought it out of Rieseen , Wisconsin about 20 years ago! I sure I misspelled the town!! It is a sit down model with plain end blades! Flat table with no tilt anywhere!! It resembles a little desk with a switch on the side! No problems with it!! But they donot make it anymore!!
 

jttheclockman

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NJ, USA.
JT, given the choice between a HEGNER 22" or Hawk BM 20, which one would you choose? (Price is not a factor). Thanks!


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Both are very good saws and heavy duty industrial saws that will last a lifetime. There are differences that could mean something to you or not. Hegner is a German saw, well built and always stood behind. It has a slightly different blade holding system that can be finicky when starting out using. Requires a wrench to secure blade in bottom holder which can be a pain until you get use to it. It has a smaller footprint than the RBI because it use a 3 legged stand and the reason behind it is easier to seek level and balance as opposed to 4 legs. I do not see it as a positive but others may. Blade is not adjustable and both saws take only flat end blades which are better anyway.

The RBI BM series is the latest saw that RBI offers and has all the bells and whistles too. RBI is an American made saw made one at a time by a small company that is Bushton. Now there can be long wait times for parts or for completed saws because they are a small shop and do many other things such as farming in the summer time and this can cause headaches if waiting for parts or a saw. They are trying to change things up but as of last year not much has changed. So do not shoot the messenger if you do go that way. As far as the saw goes top of the line in their series. What makes this saw tops is the extras. They upgraded the motor, they upgraded the blade holding system, and they added a way to actually change the cutting angle of the blade with the use of an allen key to slide the bottom holder in and out. Why is that important?? It can be if you are into marquetry and cutting thin veneers and need close tolerances in your mating of pieces. All saws have a cutting action that is somewhat aggressive and this basically sets the rate a saw blade can cut at. The more a blade is angled forward the more aggressive it can cut on the downward motion. The blade rocks back and forth creating that cutting motion. The rocking is due to the arms moving up and down and like I said the Dewalt and Excalibur style saws have a short double link system causing them to have a larger forward motion. The double arm saws such as Hegner and RBI have longer arms and the rocking motion is not as drastic because of this and thus cut slower. Some people hate this because they are in a hurry but as I said it is a hobby that you need to be patient. RBI has designed their blade system to satisfy all cutter types by being able to change the motion of the blade. That is the biggest new invention with this series. They both have table tilting systems as opposed to tilting heads. 4 legged stand that needs to have legs splayed properly and level on solid ground to prevent vibrations. Both have the speed controls and on off switch off to a side or in front away from dust which is a big factor to preventing problems. I should mention one other thing, the hegner is a bottom feeder only saw while the RBI can be either top or bottom feeder which is another added feature. I am a bottom feeder and find it quite easy because that is the way I learned. If you are a scroller you will know what I am talking about when I use those terms.

To sum it up if I were choosing a new saw it would be the RBI hands down. I own 2 Hawk series and have had no problems at all. I had to change the top quick release blade holder because it does wear out from all the times you load and unload a blade when doing fret work. That is normal for every saw on the market.
 

Penchant 4

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Great Lakes Area
Really informative thread! A question: Some months ago, the youtube rabbit hole took me to a video on a scrollsaw that, IIRC, had an option for some sort of cartridge/holder for the lower end of the blades. Is this a real thing, or an old age hallucination? If it is a real thing, are there any opinions regarding this feature, and or the line of saws? Thanks.
 

jttheclockman

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NJ, USA.
Really informative thread! A question: Some months ago, the youtube rabbit hole took me to a video on a scrollsaw that, IIRC, had an option for some sort of cartridge/holder for the lower end of the blades. Is this a real thing, or an old age hallucination? If it is a real thing, are there any opinions regarding this feature, and or the line of saws? Thanks.
I assume IIRC stands for if I recall correctly (hey I am old) I have no knowledge of this if you are explaining correctly. There are tubes or cartridges to hold spare tubes is my only thought. If you had more info maybe I could help. Sorry.
 

Penchant 4

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I assume IIRC stands for if I recall correctly (hey I am old) I have no knowledge of this if you are explaining correctly. There are tubes or cartridges to hold spare tubes is my only thought. If you had more info maybe I could help. Sorry.
Correct! IIRC= if I recall correctly.
Sorry, but that is all I recall and have had no success trying to locate the video again.
 

JohnU

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Jan 31, 2008
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Ottawa, Illinois
Things I consider when Looking at saws are blade hookup, vibration, table size and variable speed. A foot pedal and lighted magnify lens will make a huge difference when feeding the blade in small intricate projects. One thing I would add is don't go cheap or you will be struggling with replacing switches and fighting blade replacements. Also, blade selection for the job at hand makes a huge difference. Things to consider there are wood thickness and density, size of the project and cuts within a small area, and direction of cuts (curve, straight, circular, etc.) . It opens a whole new wormhole. Lol.
 

WriteON

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Thanks a million for the replies. For now I'm simply researching saws...Mainly giving thought to what I will do with it. I'm sure once I get started I will love it. I do not have any given projects in mind. I would be buying one out of curiosity and change of pace. Interesting enough I did the same thing with the pen lathe. Had no idea if I'd like it or what to do with it. As for liking it... I love it. The past years (turning) have been the best of times.
 

PreacherJon

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Indiana
I have a RBI Hawk 226VS. It is a real work horse. I've had for over ten years. No problem getting parts either.
Here is one of my favorite pieces I've done over the years. From design to cut out.

The idea and design came from a Charles Allen Gillbert painting from 1892. The "Vanity" is considered by many to be one of the finest optical illusions ever conceived. The painting is an ambiguous illusion with an allegorical theme.

The two aspects become clear as you study the figure. It can be seen as either, a beautiful girl gazing at her reflection in a large mirror; or the scene can be realized as a grinning human skull. The girl's two heads make up the eye sockets of the skull, her vanity items, and an embroidered table cloth form the teeth and jaws.

The total size with including frame is 17" x 13". From 1/4 Birch. A little Danish Oil rubbed in for the finish.
 

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WriteON

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I have a RBI Hawk 226VS. It is a real work horse. I've had for over ten years. No problem getting parts either.
Here is one of my favorite pieces I've done over the years. From design to cut out.

The idea and design came from a Charles Allen Gillbert painting from 1892. The "Vanity" is considered by many to be one of the finest optical illusions ever conceived. The painting is an ambiguous illusion with an allegorical theme.

The two aspects become clear as you study the figure. It can be seen as either, a beautiful girl gazing at her reflection in a large mirror; or the scene can be realized as a grinning human skull. The girl's two heads make up the eye sockets of the skull, her vanity items, and an embroidered table cloth form the teeth and jaws.

The total size with including frame is 17" x 13". From 1/4 Birch. A little Danish Oil rubbed in for the finish.
I doubt most people have any idea how much work went into it. Amazing piece of work.
 

PreacherJon

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I doubt most people have any idea how much work went into it. Amazing piece of work.
Thank you, yes... and I had learned something in that process. Cut the face and eyes first. Because if you don't get that right... you'll have to start all over. LOL
 

WriteON

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Seyco ST-21 Swing Tilt Scroll Saw...I think I like this for now...costly with accessories so I'll dwell on it for a while.
 
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jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
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NJ, USA.
I can not comment on this saw because it is relatively new but I am sure it is built off the same platform as the older Excaliber saws were before they were sold to China. So I am sure he incorporated many of those features and is a well built saw. It is well warrentied for sure. He stands behind his work. Good luck.
https://www.seyco.com/about-seyco/
 

WriteON

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Bear Wood or WoodCrafters. Who's your "go to" if they have the scroll you want. Post or PM. $37 vs $105 shipping. Would deal with lower priced shipper if both vendors are created equal. If not I'd pay the higher if the lower priced vendor is not preferred.
 
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jttheclockman

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Bear Wood or WoodCrafters. Who's your "go to" if they have the scroll you want. Post or PM. $37 vs $105 shipping. Would deal with lower priced shipper if both vendors are created equal. If not I'd pay the higher if the lower priced vendor is not preferred.
Have no idea who woodcrafters is. I have bought from Bear Woods, clock inserts and parts before and never had a problem. That is a huge difference in shipping costs. That would make a difference to me for sure.
 

WriteON

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Have no idea who woodcrafters is. I have bought from Bear Woods, clock inserts and parts before and never had a problem. That is a huge difference in shipping costs. That would make a difference to me for sure.
Reading poor reviews about Woodcraft.... disregard question of who to order from.
 
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jttheclockman

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Oh if you are talking about Woodcraft the tool place they are not bad to deal with at all. Not sure what reviews you are reading. They run sales many times and are very competitive with their scrollsaws. That is about the price they run elsewhere too.
 

MRDucks2

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Bristow, IN
I believe you can still have equipment delivered to a local Woodcraft to pick up for free. That is how I bought my scroll saw. Keep in mind that if you are buying a decent scroll saw, you will deal with the company on any issues, not who you buy it through. Woodcraft stores are largely franchises owned by individuals with a few corporate stores.
 

WriteON

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Most complaints had to do with shipping/customer service. Items not received. Poor return refunds or credits. Rudeness. Run around on phone. Horrible communication. Too many negatives. Would pay the difference and deal with Bear Wood. I cannot pick up anything location wise or physically. Ok done here ...back to scrolling. The person that inspired me to scroll is going to walk me through the operating process on his DeWalt. I'll get a feel for setting up/using a scroll. I'm not going to spend hours in the shop for the next 1/2-1 year as I have a lot of personal things to do. I want to be sure I'll use it enough. I have been on break from pens since July. Also moving to new house next month. Have to set up garage again. Another question ... what equipment is needed to support scrolling aside from a suction, lighting, etc. I have Dremel, Mastercarver flex tool.
 
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Gary Beasley

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A good bandsaw that can resaw is pretty handy if you have the room and budget as the thin wood for scrollsaw projects can be a problem yo source locally. A planer or drum sander will complete that set to smooth out the blade marks. Lacking that theres a company Steve Good has mentioned on his blog that ships thin wood of various species.
 
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