Saw Stop

[moke]

I was given the go ahead to buy a saw stop TS by the little woman. I actually was given the go ahead a couple of months ago. I have been looking at the 3hp cabinet model. I have an old craftsman that I have modified and hodgepodged into a pretty decent saw now, but it is not the quality, nor will it ever be that these saws are. My issue is it is SO much money.....like 3600.00 after I get a couple of things I will need. I do a fair amount of flat work, not as a business, just for us and friends. What is every ones opinion? I am nuts? We are certainly not wealthy or even all that well off, but have little or no debt and just recently I had a very good friend and work companion die at 52 of cancer.....Looking for words of wisdom...
MIke aka:Moke

 

[LEAP]

My attitude is buy what you can, while you can, as you need it. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Of course my definition of NEED often differs from SHMBO.

 

[bking0217]

Please remember that this is just my opinion. I always thought that the Saw Stop saw was just an attempt at replacing common sense while woodworking.

 

[thetalbott4]

I just did some work at a production cabinet shop that had a Saw Stop. I asked the owner what he thought about the saw as a saw, not just the safety aspect. He said it has been one of the best purchases he has ever made. He bought it for the safety but said he wouldnt trade it for anything else after having big deltas, powermatics, jets, and grizzlies. I was shocked to hear he thought so highly of it, but impressed. FYI

 

[TomW]

I wouldn't consider getting rid of my 5hp Saw Stop. Great saw.
Tom

 

[jttheclockman]

Have you looked at the contractor version??? Less HP but same features.

 

[Dan26]

Just curious, but is there any material that one might use on a table saw that could engage the saw stop safety feature? I know a lot of folks use different materials and it would suck to have to replace parts when it wasn't a finger that caused it. What kind of guarantee does the it have?

 

[Padre]

I have a SawStop contractors saw and absolutely love it. They have now come out with a hybrid contractors/cabinet.

And yes, there are materials that will activate the SawStop mechanism.

Wet wood will activate
Resin fresh from the pressure pot will activate
Hitting the blade with any form of metal, including aluminum, will activate.

And I know this because all three happened to me.

 

[islandturner]

A sales guy at a tool store that sells SawStop was telling me they are working on the same technology for chain saws. Seems like a great idea to me -- when people get whacked by their chainsaw, the injury is usually pretty bad.

 

[islandturner]

Padre,

What do you have to do to the saw after it activates, to reset it? Does it damage itself when it activates?

Tks, Steve

Resin fresh from the pressure pot will activate
Hitting the blade with any form of metal, including aluminum, will activate.
And I know this because all three happened to me.

 

[jttheclockman]

I have a SawStop contractors saw and absolutely love it. They have now come out with a hybrid contractors/cabinet.

And yes, there are materials that will activate the SawStop mechanism.

Wet wood will activate
Resin fresh from the pressure pot will activate
Hitting the blade with any form of metal, including aluminum, will activate.

And I know this because all three happened to me.

Boy I bet that got expensive!!!!

To me I still think they took it too far. I don't think the need to stop the blade with a brake system is needed. They have the release mechanism where the blade disappears in the table and shuts down. That would have been enough in my opinion and the lost of blades and the added expense of that brake shoe would not be needed. The cost would be alot less and I think all manufactorers would gladly adapt that part of the safety feature. Just my 2¢

 

[IPD_Mrs]

While this is a quality built saw, my concern would be with activating the stop by accident. For example, some of our flat wood (200-400 bf of oak) is laying on a concrete floor. In the spring when it is rainy, the bottom boards do have a tendency to wick up moisture. If you are cutting wood that has a moisture reading of 6% and all of a sudden you start cutting a 10% board will it activate the stop? It may not and I really don't know. This would be my biggest concern as replacing the charge and blade can be quite expensive. I think you are smart in researching and asking folks that own one, what they think.

While I am fond of the Powermatic cabinet saws, the Stop Saw has peak a lot of interest and discussion in many woodworking communities. Keep us up to date on what further information you glean and what path you elect to take.

Mike

 

[Padre]

Steve, once it activates, you need to replace the cartridge and the saw blade. Unlike what you may have heard, if you send the blade out to be resharpened, it will be fine. The cartridge costs $60.00. If you send the blown cartridge in to SawStop to let them download the info from it, they will send you a new cartridge for free.

Mike, I doubt a 10% level would set off the SawStop. I am talking the really wet, treated type lumber you buy at the big box stores, the ones where your clothes actually get wet from it.

JT, you have a very valid point: just having the blade instantaneously drop below the cutting surface and concurrent total loss of operating power should be enough. I think they just wanted the safety of knowing that the blade was not spinning at all, free spinning or under power spinning. Either way it is spinning it can take off a finger.

As far as the saw itself: it is a top-notch, class-act, well-built saw. It is smooth, quiet, cuts like a champ and has handled everything I have thrown at it. The setup was super-easy, everything is color coded and makes set up a breeze. Fit and finish are top notch as well.

IMHO, even without the safety features, this saw would still be rated in the top 2 or 3 just because it is so well built. I like it better than the Powermatic 2000 3hp.

 

[JBCustomPens]

While this is a quality built saw, my concern would be with activating the stop by accident. For example, some of our flat wood (200-400 bf of oak) is laying on a concrete floor. In the spring when it is rainy, the bottom boards do have a tendency to wick up moisture. If you are cutting wood that has a moisture reading of 6% and all of a sudden you start cutting a 10% board will it activate the stop? It may not and I really don't know. This would be my biggest concern as replacing the charge and blade can be quite expensive. I think you are smart in researching and asking folks that own one, what they think.

While I am fond of the Powermatic cabinet saws, the Stop Saw has peak a lot of interest and discussion in many woodworking communities. Keep us up to date on what further information you glean and what path you elect to take.

Mike

Some of you guys may not know this, but...

Some of the newer saw stop models come with a key that can turn off the safety feature, so If you have to cut conductive material, you can do so.

 

[Padre]

Some of you guys may not know this, but...

Some of the newer saw stop models come with a key that can turn off the safety feature, so If you have to cut conductive material, you can do so.

Oh yeah, that too. I forgot to mention that. DOH!:redface:

 

[moke]

Hey great thoughts and the wisdom that I was seeking...Thank you. I have one further question from the owners and from the guys who really know....I hear that when the saw fires the cartridge that it is very violent, the saw jumps and lurches, does that take away from the accuracy of the saw? Now, understand that if it fires because it is my finger....well that is a no brainer....but Padre, after three fires is your saw still in alignment? Thanks again
Moke

 

[Rfturner]

I have used the Stopsaw when I was in highschool woodshop, I prefered that saw over the delta that was in the same shop. it seemed to cut very smooth very accurately. if I had the money I would look into getting one myself. I can't answer about the violent stopping of the saw messing with the accuracy though.

 

[Andrew Arndts]

Charles Neil does a Promo Vid on Youtube. Towards the end, he shows his hand where he and an old Table saw got into an argument. The saw won. After numerous surgeries, and couple hundred thousand dollars in Hospital bills. He states that he only has 60% retention in his hand... $3,600 versus $250,000 in hospital bills...

Well I will let him tell ya.

Saw Stop Vid Via Youtube Featuring Charles Neil.

 

[Padre]

No alignment problem whasoever.

It is NOT a violent thing, there is a loud noise, then total quiet because the saw is shut down. The saw doesn't jump and/or lurch or even rock and roll.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I could afford it.

Overkill in the safety department is always money well spent.

 

[Fred]

The Saw Stop table saw is a very nice saw as far as the manufacturing, materials, etc. However, after being in Woodcraft on several occasions and seeing the saw in action ... you know the hot dog to the blade demo ... I see no reason to pay for common sense. If you respect the dangers of using any dangerous device then you should be OK. If you FEAR the device ... stay away from it!

I ALWAYS use my Gripper when using my table saw and I NEVER worry about touching the blade. It is impossible to get to the blade using this device. It was the best money (about 65.00) I spent for safety on the table saw and WAYYYYYY less than the Saw Stop.

I know there are folks out there that will get fingers, etc. into their blade sooner or later, but then I sit back and say, "Where is their common sense? Where was their push stick, their sled, anything but their finger?"

If the Saw Stop were available without the break I might consider having one in my shop. For my money though just to keep my fingers and such out of a sharp, fast turning blade I do believe my common sense is priceless and my Gripper not replaceable at any cost.

One thing others posting above haven't mentioned .... if the safety device on the Saw Stop is tripped ... what about the downtime and hassle of getting the saw fixed and the blade replaced or resharpened? That too should be considered.

 

[mredburn]

My thumb was pulled backward through the saw in a split instant, A delta 3hp proffesioal. If I had the money and the chance I would buy the saw. You may never need it. But that feeling you get in the pit of your stomach when you realize "oh @#$" is not a good one. Maybe they will make them better and cheaper in the future but for now its better than nothing. And As for making you lax on saw safety, I doubt it. Old habits die hard it might stop before it cuts you but I doubt you will want to test it. (other than the famous "hold my beer watch this) However if you get a young adult or someonelse that wants to use your saw you will have a lot less qualms about letting them use it. If you ever have reason to need it you will never doubt the amount it took to buy it.
Mike

 

[gketell]

The blade brake is what causes the blade to drop so fast. The rotational torque is halted instantly cause several G's of force pulling the blade down. No blade stop, no fast retreat.

 

[snyiper]

Well Mike when you get that saw we will be expecting to see plenty of blanks for sale!!!!

 

[IPD_Mrs]

The only thing that will prevent an accident 100% is to never use the saw. Accidents are just that, an accident. Nobody intentionally (in their right mind) puts a finger or hand in the way of a spinning saw blade. Using a push stick I have had pieces of wood bind, get caught by the blade and rocketed into my somewhat padded gut at several miles per hour. I sure didn't do it on purpose and I still have to use my saw for part of my income. I had my index finger removed by a 30 ton punch press over 20 years ago. I was young and careless, but it was still an accident. I still use the same press and dies today, but with more respect and added safety measures. One of our contract employees lost his index, middle finger and part of his palm a couple weeks back. He had been working with the machinery for over 35 years.

My point to this is accidents happen, even to professionals who are safety minded and use common sense. If the saw adds extra protection and functions as well as a comparable saw, then the piece of mind is well worth it. When my grandson comes running into the shop while I am working anything could happen in the instant it take to tell him stop and wait. Something like this saw could prevent a disaster.

 

[titan2]

One thing others posting above haven't mentioned .... if the safety device on the Saw Stop is tripped ... what about the downtime and hassle of getting the saw fixed and the blade replaced or resharpened? That too should be considered.

Yeah, what about that down time if an accident did occur and you didn't have a SawStop? The hassle of going to the ER, surgeries, therapy, pain, suffering, possible loss of use of the injuried part! The cleaning up of your shop after the injury......

Yep, I'd take the hassles of the down time of the SawStop any day! And if I never had the use of the safety features....well, that'd be money well spent! I pay for car insurance and home fire insurance and such......hope to never have to use them (I have), but I'd rather have it in place and not need it than to need it and never of had it in place to begin with. Your potentional for loss is greater without the safety features than the benefit of your being 100% in all safety practices at all times! You're not Superman and that tablesaw may vary well be your kryptonite one day!

FWIW.....just my 2 cents worth of thought.....

May the 'Force' be with you!!!



Barney

 

[jttheclockman]

Boy this argument has been on every woodworking forum since the invention of this technology. There is no winners. Is it a good saw?? Yes by all means. This is an American built saw with everyday users of saws designing it. They took the best of all tablesaws and added the safety feature to it. Like I said I think it is overkill and could be done cheaper and still be a safety addition. There is no need for that blade to stop if it drops below the table in my opinion and alot of expense can be taken out of it.

So the question remains. Is the saw worth the money??? That is a question only each and everyone of us can answer. As mentioned accidents do happen. There are soooooooooooo many tools and machines in the shop that can cause us harm but the tablesaw is always talked about because just about everywoodworking shop has one. There is no substitute for common sense and safety practices. If having a saw like this makes you feel more confident then it is a worthwhile investment. But don't let your guard down. You could have the safety device switched off and it is on that project you lose the finger or worse. Remember kickback is just as big of a danger.

If you can afford it then it is a well built saw and has your name all over it. Good luck with your purchase and lets see some work off that saw.

 

[All Thumbs]

Padre,

What do you have to do to the saw after it activates, to reset it? Does it damage itself when it activates?

Tks, Steve

Resin fresh from the pressure pot will activate
Hitting the blade with any form of metal, including aluminum, will activate.
And I know this because all three happened to me.

You have to replace the unit and blade. You can test the material you are cutting with the saw off to see if it will trip the blade.

 

[Timbo]

I'd say buy it! Common sense will go a long way towards reducing your chances of an accident, but it will not prevent every accident. At some point I WILL buy a Sawstop to replace my Delta cabinet saw, which I know works perfectly well now, and would probably continue to do so for the rest of my life. Buying safety is never a waste of money.

 

[Padre]

Padre,

What do you have to do to the saw after it activates, to reset it? Does it damage itself when it activates?

Tks, Steve

Resin fresh from the pressure pot will activate
Hitting the blade with any form of metal, including aluminum, will activate.
And I know this because all three happened to me.

You have to replace the unit and blade. You can test the material you are cutting with the saw off to see if it will trip the blade.

All Thumbs is absolutely correct. With the saw off, touch the questionable piece to the saw blade, and if the warning light goes off, it is too wet/metallic or whatever and will set off the brake.

 

[Crickett]

We are fortunate enough to have a Saw Stop, I'm new to woodworking and pen making, therefore Pete figured it was best for safety and he's not getting any younger either and the reflexes aren't what they used to be. If I'm doing a cut I'm unsure of, even with the Saw Stop, I ask for advice before proceeding. The saw doesn't make me stop thinking of safety and if I'm wondering whether a material will trip the sensor I touch it to the blade before beginning, if the lights flash I know to use a handsaw instead.

 

[Padre]

We are fortunate enough to have a Saw Stop, I'm new to woodworking and pen making, therefore Pete figured it was best for safety and he's not getting any younger either and the reflexes aren't what they used to be. If I'm doing a cut I'm unsure of, even with the Saw Stop, I ask for advice before proceeding. The saw doesn't make me stop thinking of safety and if I'm wondering whether a material will trip the sensor I touch it to the blade before beginning, if the lights flash I know to use a handsaw instead.

Good points Crickett! The time I tripped it using the newly poured resin, I forgot to touch it to the blade first. :frown:

 

[PaulDoug]

I'm going to make people mad, but what a boring argument. This has been argued over and over again on every forum I belong to. If you want one get it, if you don't, don't. It's that simple in my opinion. Okay, I'll move on. Sorry.

 

[Smitty37]

Yup

Boy this argument has been on every woodworking forum since the invention of this technology. There is no winners. Is it a good saw?? Yes by all means. This is an American built saw with everyday users of saws designing it. They took the best of all tablesaws and added the safety feature to it. Like I said I think it is overkill and could be done cheaper and still be a safety addition. There is no need for that blade to stop if it drops below the table in my opinion and alot of expense can be taken out of it.

So the question remains. Is the saw worth the money??? That is a question only each and everyone of us can answer. As mentioned accidents do happen. There are soooooooooooo many tools and machines in the shop that can cause us harm but the tablesaw is always talked about because just about everywoodworking shop has one. There is no substitute for common sense and safety practices. If having a saw like this makes you feel more confident then it is a worthwhile investment. But don't let your guard down. You could have the safety device switched off and it is on that project you lose the finger or worse. Remember kickback is just as big of a danger.

If you can afford it then it is a well built saw and has your name all over it. Good luck with your purchase and lets see some work off that saw.

Well I stuck my left hand in a rotating saw 3 years ago....It only cost me #1200 or so out of pocket, but it cost medicare about $8000 more so the total cost in money was $9200. But there are more costs, I have all of my fingers on my left hand but two of them don't work as well as they should --- being right handed I can get by but there are a lot of things that I could do before that I can't quite do now...

Yes it is worth the price, If you never have need of the feature, count your blessings.

 

[thetalbott4]

The cabinet maker that I talked to about this saw has had the cartridge fired 3 times. Two times by not shutting off the safety before running aluminum through it, and once by trying to send a finger through. He said the saw runs as good as new.

 

[nava1uni]

Used one several times in classes at my local Woodcraft. I like the safety of mind. I am highly aware safety, but they call them accidents for a reason. I would buy one if I could afford it and if I used a table saw often.

 

[brewtang]

I see this argument a lot on other forums. I'm a manager of a Woodcraft that is a Sawstop dealer, so I'm pretty familiar with the saws.
"WET" wood will NOT trigger the brake. Sawstop has tested the saws with wood so wet that water was flying off the blade. Pressure treated wood will, because it contains copper sulfate. The way the brake mechanism detects your hand touching the blade is by running a approx 3 volt charge through the blade. If something causes a significant drop in that voltage, the cartridge senses that and fires the brake. Works on the same principle that a touch lamp does...you touch the body of the lamp to turn it on. Anything that causes a large enough drop in voltage will fire it...you, a large enough piece of metal, etc. That's why for the hot dog to fire the brake, the demonstrator has to be touching it. The dog alone doesn't absorb enough voltage. And all Sawstop models have a bypass feature to allow for cutting metal, pressure treated, etc.

To me saying that a Sawstop is a replacement for common sense foolish. Do you drive more dangerously because you have seat belts and air bags? I know I don't. But if something happens, I'll sure as hell be glad that they're there. In my experience, most people that have table saw accidents fall into two categories - New people that don't realize that what they're doing is dangerous and old veterans that know they know what they're doing.

As far as the extra cost, with the Professional model, that's not really an issue - there isn't an extra cost when you compare it to other saws of the same class / quality. The 3mp Professional with 52" rails is $2999. The PM2000 retails for $2799. The new Delta Unisaw actually sells for more $3299. When you're talking about roughly $3000 a difference of $200 is not that big of a deal.

Sorry for the long post, but I deal with these misconceptions all the time. I'm not pushing Sawstops - I'll be happy to sell any of those 3 saws to all of you. I just want everyone to be able to make an informed decision. FWIW we sell Sawstop probably 3 to one over all other table saw COMBINED. That says something to me.

Billy

 

[jttheclockman]

Boy this argument has been on every woodworking forum since the invention of this technology. There is no winners. Is it a good saw?? Yes by all means. This is an American built saw with everyday users of saws designing it. They took the best of all tablesaws and added the safety feature to it. Like I said I think it is overkill and could be done cheaper and still be a safety addition. There is no need for that blade to stop if it drops below the table in my opinion and alot of expense can be taken out of it.

So the question remains. Is the saw worth the money??? That is a question only each and everyone of us can answer. As mentioned accidents do happen. There are soooooooooooo many tools and machines in the shop that can cause us harm but the tablesaw is always talked about because just about everywoodworking shop has one. There is no substitute for common sense and safety practices. If having a saw like this makes you feel more confident then it is a worthwhile investment. But don't let your guard down. You could have the safety device switched off and it is on that project you lose the finger or worse. Remember kickback is just as big of a danger.

If you can afford it then it is a well built saw and has your name all over it. Good luck with your purchase and lets see some work off that saw.

Well I stuck my left hand in a rotating saw 3 years ago....It only cost me #1200 or so out of pocket, but it cost medicare about $8000 more so the total cost in money was $9200. But there are more costs, I have all of my fingers on my left hand but two of them don't work as well as they should --- being right handed I can get by but there are a lot of things that I could do before that I can't quite do now...

Yes it is worth the price, If you never have need of the feature, count your blessings.

It was a rhetorical question that only each and everyone can answer. In your case you see it as an advantage and yes it is a huge advantage. The last poster here who is a dealer just pointed out facts, if you are looking in that line of a tablesaw you would be foolish not to spend the extra $200. It is the people looking at the $600 contractor saw as opposed to a cabinet saw that have the problem justifying the extra cost. SawStop is targeting those people now with a contractors model. If again they get the price close to the other players out there then again the extra $$$ for the extra safety thing is a no brainer.

I agree with one of the posters here because this topic is sooooooooooooo old already and talk about dead horses. Let this one die. You want one and can afford it buy it. You will not regret it. I have not read one regret from an owner yet and believe me I visit alot of woodworking sites. Just beware of the added expenses if the mechanism is triggered and as mentioned you may and this is not always the case but you may get the shoe replaced for free but not the blade. Still this safety device does not substitute for common sense and having the knowledge to operate said tools. Accidents do happen. We all have stories but thankfully we are still here to tell them.


Boy I can remember when Radial Armsaws was the rage. What would people be saying about them now. How about the same technology on those??? Talk about cutting fingers off. Saw some results of this before too. Good luck and be safe.

 

[moke]

I want to thank everyone that commented to help me make my decision. I apologize if I asked people to hash out something that is being discussed and was "boring" in other forums. I belong to only this forum, and had not seen this discussed here. As you may imagine I have decided to get one. I have decided on the professional with 52 inch deck, they also have an awesome wheel set, and a nice out feed table. I understand it also requres a different cartridge for dado blades. All of this, tax, and an extra cartridge in case I trigger it adds up to 3600, that is how I came up with that price.

I agree that this system is not a subsitute for common sense, but I wanted to make sure it really is as good as some of the other cabinet saws, with the safety features aside. We all use very dangerous tools beside our TS, but the TS seems to take more than on finger if there is an accident, many of the others don't seem to. I am by trade a Photographer during the day and a Policeman at night......I need my trigger finger for both!!!

Thanks again...the knowlegde offered here is never disappointing
Moke

 

[Padre]

Good for you Moke, you'll be happy you made this choice. It's a great saw.