Sanding technique [long]

[warreng8170]

This will probably get long so please bear with me...

I've only been turning a short while and I have probably made about 15 or so pens. I feel like I am doing pretty well and the comments on my work in the SOYP section have been very positive. I do, however have several general questions about my finishing process that I feel like I need to understand better.

Keep in mind, the only finish I have tried on wood is CA or CA/BLO. The CA-only method did not work well for me, but with the BLO added, I am getting much better results.

*Sanding before CA
I see a lot of people talking about sanding with coarse sandpaper. Anytime I start with anything coarser than 400, I end up with a surface that is WORSE than what I left with the chisel. Do any/all of you always start with coarser paper or just in certain scenarios. Even starting at 400, I feel like sometimes I introduce deep circular scratches that end up being a ****** to get out. I try sanding lengthwise, but they are still there.

It seems that most people jump from 400 grit to either MM or a buffer. I don't have a buffing system, so I have been going the MM route. 400 grit to 1500 MM FEELS like a very big jump in grit, although I have read that 1500 MM is roughly equal to 600 grit. Is there nothing in-between? I am usually ready for CA after 1500, but I often feel like there are scratches left from the 400 that I can't get out with the 1500MM.

*Sanding after CA
This is where I think my real problem lies. Just like above, I have real problems starting with a coarse grit after applying the CA. I alway introduces deep scratches - even with 400. Most of the time I skip regular sandpaper altogether and start with steel wool. Then I go to MM all the way through 12000. What seems to be happening is that as I am putting on the CA, very slight "ridges" are introduced by the applicator (BLO-soaked Paper towel) - almost like the grooves in an old vinyl record. After 8-10 applications, I start the sanding process, but because of the fine nature of my first sanding pass, I don't knock down the ridges completely. Then by the time I get up to 6000 or 8000 MM, you can see where the majority of the pen is getting a very good shine, but if you look very closely you can see that *some* of the "valleys" in the CA are not getting polished. I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard-place....either start sanding coarse and introduce scratches or start sanding fine and not get out all the irregularities.

Would buffing the CA with a 3-wheel system instead of using MM eliminate these problems? Even if it doesn't directly fix these issues, does buffing give a better shine over and above 12000 MM? I don't mind spending the money on a Beal 3-wheel if it would yield better results, but if not, I'd rather spend that money on more pens.

Also, how durable are other finishes such as friction polishes? I like the CA finish, but it does take a while.

Sorry for the novella, but I feel that this is where the difference is made between a nice pen and a fantastic pen. I want to make fantastic pens.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

-Warren

 

[rherrell]

I don't have answers to all your questions so let me just tell you my process...
Turn with skew
sand 400-never lower- lathe on and lathe off lengthwise
apply Mylands sanding sealer
let dry thoroughly
MM all grits
apply CA ONLY
sand with 600 wet/dry, used dry, between every coat(4 max.)
buff with tripoli, white diamond and TSW.

As to your Beall question, I don't know if the shine is better but it sure is a HECK of alot easier!
Friction polish is fine for objects that don't get handled regularly but I wouldn't put it on a pen.

 

[mrcook4570]

400 grit should not produce deep scratches. Either switch brands or paper weight. Also, use very light pressure when sanding - let the paper do the work. Then sand lengthwise. 400 grit is equivalent to 1500MM. The biggest difference between the two is the consistency of the particle size in the MM.

The Beall buffing system is much faster than going through the grits of MM. Also, with practice, a good CA finish can be completed in less than 10 minutes (and less than 5 minutes on slimlines).

 

[jeffj13]

Originally posted by warreng8170

This will probably get long so please bear with me...

I've only been turning a short while and I have probably made about 15 or so pens. I feel like I am doing pretty well and the comments on my work in the SOYP section have been very positive. I do, however have several general questions about my finishing process that I feel like I need to understand better.

Keep in mind, the only finish I have tried on wood is CA or CA/BLO. The CA-only method did not work well for me, but with the BLO added, I am getting much better results.

*Sanding before CA
I see a lot of people talking about sanding with coarse sandpaper. Anytime I start with anything coarser than 400, I end up with a surface that is WORSE than what I left with the chisel. Do any/all of you always start with coarser paper or just in certain scenarios. Even starting at 400, I feel like sometimes I introduce deep circular scratches that end up being a ****** to get out. I try sanding lengthwise, but they are still there. My turning technique is not that great, so I typically start with 220 grit and work up to 600 grit before finishing. I sand with a light touch and each sucessive grit removes the scratches from the previous grit. I also stop the lathe and sand lengthwise between each grit.

It seems that most people jump from 400 grit to either MM or a buffer. I don't have a buffing system, so I have been going the MM route. 400 grit to 1500 MM FEELS like a very big jump in grit, although I have read that 1500 MM is roughly equal to 600 grit. Is there nothing in-between? I am usually ready for CA after 1500, but I often feel like there are scratches left from the 400 that I can't get out with the 1500MM. I believe that 1500MM is the equivalant to 400 grit sandpaper

*Sanding after CA
This is where I think my real problem lies. Just like above, I have real problems starting with a coarse grit after applying the CA. I alway introduces deep scratches - even with 400. Most of the time I skip regular sandpaper altogether and start with steel woolDon't use steel wool. You can leave small pieces of steel in your finish which will eventually rust.. Then I go to MM all the way through 12000. What seems to be happening is that as I am putting on the CA, very slight "ridges" are introduced by the applicator (BLO-soaked Paper towel) - almost like the grooves in an old vinyl record. After 8-10 applications, I start the sanding process, but because of the fine nature of my first sanding pass, I don't knock down the ridges completely. Then by the time I get up to 6000 or 8000 MM, you can see where the majority of the pen is getting a very good shine, but if you look very closely you can see that *some* of the "valleys" in the CA are not getting polished. I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard-place....either start sanding coarse and introduce scratches or start sanding fine and not get out all the irregularities. I would suggest starting with a lower grit. the key is a light touch.

Would buffing the CA with a 3-wheel system instead of using MM eliminate these problems? Even if it doesn't directly fix these issues, does buffing give a better shine over and above 12000 MM? I don't mind spending the money on a Beal 3-wheel if it would yield better results, but if not, I'd rather spend that money on more pens.

Also, how durable are other finishes such as friction polishes? I like the CA finish, but it does take a while.

Sorry for the novella, but I feel that this is where the difference is made between a nice pen and a fantastic pen. I want to make fantastic pens.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

-Warren

 

[www]

The following is the approach I use as taught me by Fritz McCorkel at woodturningz to apply ca glue as a finish on turned pens:
1. Turn pen blanks to finished size and shape according to pen kit manufacturer's instructions
and sand to a 320 grit finish, stop the lathe and sand with the grain until smooth.
2. Wipe all sanding dust from the blanks with a soft, lint free cloth.i like the blue shop paper towels
3. Slow the lathe to about 800 rpm and apply a coat of thin ca glue with a folded paper towel to pen blank parts and apply a small amount of accelerator to dry the ca glue.
Apply the ca glue to the top of the blanks while holding the folded paper towel to the bottom of the turning wood. Quickly and with 2 or 3 fast strokes, spread the ca glue across the blanks smoothing it as much as possible. Get off of it quickly or you will ruin the finish.
NOTE: the ca glue generates a lot of heat while curing and may smoke the paper towel, it can cause a fire if not handled properly.
4. Using a fresh area of the paper towel, apply a second coat of the thin ca glue and
accelerator as before.
5. Turn off the lathe. Apply medium ca glue to a fresh area of the paper towel and apply a lot of
medium ca glue to the pen blank. This should be enough to cause it to run down the sides of the
blanks. Spread the ca glue while turning the lathe by hand. Stand to one side so the glue isn't
thrown in your face, turn the lathe on and quickly spread the ca glue on the blanks and apply
accelerator. Allow 1 or 2 minutes for this coat to dry before proceeding.
(ALTERNITIVE) Apply the medium ca glue to the top of the blanks while holding the folded paper
towel to the bottom of the turning wood. Quickly and with 2 or 3 fast strokes, spread the ca glue
across the blanks smoothing it as much as possible. Get off of it quickly or you will ruin the finish.
Apply at least 3 coats when using this alternative method. This will result in a less than thick finish
but will be easier to sand out with the Micro-Mesh. On harder woods the difference will not be
noticeable.
6. Repeat the above step two more times thus building a significant layer of "plastic" on the
pen barrels. You will have applied a total of 5 coats at this point.
7. Sand the coated finish with 320 grit paper until any and all imperfections are gone. Look
for raised stripes due to the build-up of ca glue. These must all be removed or they
will show up in the finished pen. Turn the lathe off, inspect and sand with the grain of the
wood and wipe with the clean cloth to remove sanding dust.
8. Apply 2 more coats of thin ca glue as was done in steps 3 and 4. You have now applied a total of 7 coats of ca glue. Very soft porous material such as corncob will take a few more coats to achieve the thickness needed.
9. Final step. Sand with "Micro-Mesh" abrasive paper going through all grits. Do not apply heavy
pressure, it will only ruin the Micro-Mesh. Begin with 1500 grit and finish with 12,000 grit. After
using the 1500 grit, stop the lathe, inspect and sand with the grain to remove all shiny spots.. The
finish should last a very long time if applied correctly. If, after final sanding with the 12,000 grit, you
find imperfections you can re-sand with the 1500 to remove them, re-apply the thin ca glue and
work through all of the Micro-Mesh again.
Note: This finish can be applied to any other small turned items such as, but not limited to, bottle
stoppers, perfume atomizers, key chains, letter openers, tops, yo-yos etc. Breathing protection is
highly recommended due to the fumes from the sanding dust, ca glue and accelerator. Be careful
in the disposal of the used paper towels. The curing action of the ca glue causes a lot of heat and
can burst into flames under the right conditions. Good luck.,

 

[rherrell]

Hey Josh, if indeed Fritz told you to sand with 320 before applying your CA, I think he gave you some bum information. Up until now I didn't know anybody that stopped sanding at 320. Try sanding to 400 and then MM through all the grits before applying your CA, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[www]

I just copy and pasted this from instructions, without reading them over again after several months, that a fellow gave me when I just started turning pens. Now reading them back after Rick’s post it does seem like I am saying that Fritz taught me, which is not the case. When I first went into woodturningz I was telling them the process and who I received it from and they did say that fritz took him to his house and taught him it. I have no problems with this process and my finish always come out great. Now I want to see if there is a difference between the two. I think I am going to try Rick's to see. Sorry for any misrepresentation.

 

[aurrida]

once turned and sanded to 240 i do all my sanding by hand with the grain only and lathe off.

clean with acetone before final finish.

ca is applied by hand with a tissue with the grain and the lathe off. finish off with mm lathe on and slow.

sanding with the lathe on just goes against the grain for me .