Retractable Fountain Pen

[DaveBear35]

I was shown a Pilot Pen Retractable Fountain Pen today. A long time buyer wants to know if I can make him one. Any ideas?

 

[duncsuss]

You won't find a kit for it, but Richard Greenwald has re-skinned Pilot pens. He stopped doing it when Pilot started sending him "please stop doing that or our legal team will visit" letters.

 

[leehljp]

A person can make many copyrighted/patented things for himself without violating laws, but once a person offers even one for sale or distribution, it becomes a legal issue. You can print out a copy of the Olympic logo without a problem on your home printer, but once it is put on a card to given to someone, or sent to a friend in a letter, it becomes a strong legal issue.

AND, many companies with even a few million dollar valuation, - daily or weekly do automated searches across the internet for their name used in conjunction with their logo or product to see if they are used outside of a license agreement.

I can bet that since you typed that and it showed up here, that will be reviewed by their company simply because even a google search of the PPRFP name was written out in the OP and posted.

 

[Curly]

There was one made and shown on the Fountain Pen Network that will show you just how difficult they are to make.

A capless pen: From the prototype to the finished pen...

A year ago I "accidentally" transformed a pen I failed to finish into a prototype (kind of capless bulkfiller). This pen had several issues like an uneven finish, flow issues, ink burping when retracting the nib, no clip, bad ebonite quality: not the ideal workhorse. Here is the journey to this p...

www.fountainpennetwork.com

 

[RobS]

Newton Pens still reskins the pens. https://newtonpens.com/
It is not a simple process, and requires special tappers of the inner bore.
Also, if you are buying a product off the shelf, and then upgrading it I do not understand how there is a legal issue.
Case in point, buying a Jeep, then lifting it, adding monster tires, etc and paying a shop to do it.

 

[monophoto]

Also, if you are buying a product off the shelf, and then upgrading it I do not understand how there is a legal issue.
Case in point, buying a Jeep, then lifting it, adding monster tires, etc and paying a shop to do it.

The issue isn't a matter of upgrading a product. The legal issue would be in using a well-known proprietary feature of a commercial product, and then using the reputation of that proprietary feature to sell your creation to someone else.

In this specific instance, the question relates to a proprietary retractable nib feature made by Pilot (Namiki). The Pilot 'Vanishing Point' pen is capless, and has a click mechanism that causes the nib to move from a protected position within the body of the pen to a writing position external to the body. Other manufacturers (Stipula, Lamy, Platinum and perhaps others) offer retractable nib pens (typically where the nib movement is controlled by twisting a portion of the barrel), but the Pilot design is unique in having that click mechanism.

There would be no issue in making a click-operated retractable nib fountain pen for yourself. But if you use that click feature to sell the pen, you are encroaching on the patent held by Pilot.

In general, it's OK to create a copy of a commercial product for your own use - and it is likely that the manufacturer of the product you copied would never know what you have done. It's also OK to emulate routine features of commercial products in things that you sell. For example, you can make fountain pens and sell them without any issue at all. But if you copy a distinctively unique and proprietary feature of a commercial product in something that you make, and then try to sell it on the basis that is is like the commercial product, then you are in sketchy territory and could face some legal troubles. You won't go to jail because this isn't a matter of criminal law; instead, it's a matter of civil law so you might get sued and have to defend yourself, and if you lose, you might have to pay a financial settlement.

 

[DaveBear35]

Let me clarify my request since my original post (written in haste) was not easily understood.

I am looking for a kit to create a retractable fountain pen ala the PPRFP previously mentioned.

I don't have any desire, tools, or skills to re-skin, an existing pen. I also don't have any desire to rip off the patent of that fine pen company. I also thought a post here might put the idea of such a kit in front of the pen kits manufacturing companies, who can figure out a way to make this kit without violating a patent.

In my own life I have learned just how useless a copywrite can be, having one of mine violated until I was forced out of that business.

 

[PatrickR]

Let me clarify my request since my original post (written in haste) was not easily understood.

I am looking for a kit to create a retractable fountain pen ala the PPRFP previously mentioned.

I don't have any desire, tools, or skills to re-skin, an existing pen. I also don't have any desire to rip off the patent of that fine pen company. I also thought a post here might put the idea of such a kit in front of the pen kits manufacturing companies, who can figure out a way to make this kit without violating a patent.

In my own life I have learned just how useless a copywrite can be, having one of mine violated until I was forced out of that business.

Since you aren't new here you know there is no kit like that and wont be. Niche market and legal hurdles make it very unlikely.
You could re-skin your friends pen for him without infringement. Likely how newton gets around it.
To me it's kind of an ugly thing.

 

[darrin1200]

The pen that @Curly linked to, is what is know as a "Safety Pen". It is one of the first retractable pens, created over a century ago. They are incredibly complex. I have an engineer friend in Ottawa that has designed one, but due to covid, has had production postponed.
The "click" retractable is newer, but no less complex. I have found three companies that seem to be producing them. Platinum, Lamy and of course Pilot.
Shawn Newton only skins vanishing points and he only modifies his clients pen. He doesn't buy them, modify them and then sell them.

I am not a legal eagle buy any stretch, but wouldn't stripping a Pilot VP and using the parts in your own pen, be the same as stripping a Pentel Pencil and using it's mechanism. Or are we infringing patents/copywriters there as well? Not looking for an argument, just asking a question.

@DaveBear35 To the OP. I doubt if you will see kits with this type of a mechanism. I think if a kit with this mechanism was produced, it would be very expensive, mainly because the demand would not be very high as a kit pen. But, I am hoping to see someone produce a self contained mechanism to be used as a part. Similar to the piston mechanisms that Richard Greenwald produces, which allow us non-engineer's to make piston filler pens.

I hope I haven't rattled on to far, but like the OP, I hope this inspires someone to try and fill this little niche.

 

[PatrickR]

I am not a legal eagle buy any stretch, but wouldn't stripping a Pilot VP and using the parts in your own pen, be the same as stripping a Pentel Pencil and using it's mechanism. Or are we infringing patents/copywriters there as well? Not looking for an argument, just asking a question.

The quick answer would be yes. If the mechanism is part of the patent and you buy it, alter it and resell it you have infringed. The potential problem comes when you make money using their protected item.

 

[jalbert]

The pen that @Curly linked to, is what is know as a "Safety Pen". It is one of the first retractable pens, created over a century ago.

This is incorrect. Safety pens are eyedropper filled through the front while the nib is retracted. When capped, a plug inside the cap seals the end of the pen off and prevents ink from spilling out. When in use, the nib is extended, the pen is sealed off as well. By design, safety pens must have a cap. The above is just another form of a capless pen.

 

[duncsuss]

The quick answer would be yes. If the mechanism is part of the patent and you buy it, alter it and resell it you have infringed. The potential problem comes when you make money using their protected item.

I hadn't thought about it that way.

When I re-skin a mechanical pencil, I don't alter the mechanism or method of operation in any way whatsoever - simply throw away the plastic tube and assemble the (unaltered) mechanism into a tube of my making.

But now I think about it, that's really no different to re-skinning a VP fountain pen - which I'd thought of as over the line. I shall have to think about this again.

 

[darrin1200]

This is incorrect. Safety pens are eyedropper filled through the front while the nib is retracted. When capped, a plug inside the cap seals the end of the pen off and prevents ink from spilling out. When in use, the nib is extended, the pen is sealed off as well. By design, safety pens must have a cap. The above is just another form of a capless pen.

I stand corrected John. I was thinking that the original safeties had a small door that closed on full retraction.
It's not a good day if you don't learn something.
It appears that pilot was the first to make a "retractable" pen in 1963.