question on food safe finishes

[leatherjunkie]

I am making some wooden cups for a friend that wants to drink out of them. what type of finish should i use?

He wants to drink whiskey and other stuff out of them.

thanks to everyone in advance for helping me out.

 

[bradh]

I believe that alcohol will disolve most wax based food-safe finishes. You will likely need to look at a polyurethane or laquer finish. These are safe for food once they cure fully.
Brad

 

[DocStram]

There are several alternatives. I suggest you take a look at the Salad Bowl Finish that PSI, Packard, and others sell.

 

[mrcook4570]

Topical finishes (lacquer, etc) do not generally make a good utility finish as they will likely become scratched and/or cracked and are not easy to repair/rejuvinate. Finishes that harden in the wood (mineral oil, walnut oil, etc.) make better utility finishes. That said, during a rotation at the AAW Symposium this year, Mike Mahoney said his favorite finish for utility pieces was no finish.

 

[whatwoodido]

There are a couple of books out there on finishes, and one of them I believe is co-authored by Alan Lacer (a turner). When he demoed at my club he mentioned that there is really only one finish that is good for wine and alcohol, unfortunately I can't remember what it was.

Drew

 

[Rifleman1776]

Use nothing inside. Whatever you put in, safe or otherwise, will come off with time and use. I am an historical reenactor. I use a wood cup and have used many wood drinking utensils over the years and see others doing the same. My cup is used for everything, coffee, water, wine, whatever. Experience shows me that the finishes will come to the surface when being subject to solvents or heat. Authentic old-time wood vessels were often lined with pitch. That works if you want to find some and go to the trouble. Downsides: heavy and ugly and sticky. I don't even know what kind of wood my cup is made from, a hardwood. It has held up with decades of use. Bottom line: outside can be finished if you want, don't bother with inside. If you are determined: any mineral oil is fine and safe but is unpleasant when it floats to the surface, which it will do.

 

[whatwoodido]

If you want to protect the wood and use the cup, do a little research on finishes, you will find that the cause is not hopeless. While many of the people in this group are quite experienced in turning pens, you might be better off posing this question on the AAW website. The information you are requesting is a bit more relevant on that site, and I wouldn't be surprized if one of the thousands of people that have seen Alan Lacer demo will have a better memory than I do.

Drew

 

[Dario]

Try PURE 100% Tung oil...will take a while to cure though []

 

[RussFairfield]

Take a look at this link

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal3a.html

 

[whatwoodido]

The book that I would recommend to anyone who is interested about finishes is <b>Understanding Wood Finishing: How to Select and Apply the Right Finish</b> by Bob Flexner (sorry Alan Lacer was not a co-author although they are very good friends and he did help Bob with his research). Flexner has devoted more research to finishes than anyone I know and this is at least his third book on the subject. This book has been recommended by several professional woodworkers that have demonstrated for my club (not all of the demonstrators are only turners). One of the topics is what finish is appropriate for which uses.

Drew

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Take a look at this link

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal3a.html

The issue with the cup isn't "food safe". It is one of "food yuckky". Seeing a 'safe' finish floating on top of a beverage one is about to drink is, well...yuckky.
From decades of experience with this sort of thing, I still go with a no finish at all on the interior.
BTW, in addition to the pitch (tree sap) I mentioned, tar was also widely used. Again, heavy, ugly and sticky. And were are you going to find it?
Parafin is OK if use of the vessel is limited to cold drinks on cold days.

 

[whatwoodido]

Russ-
Not intending to discount your knowledge or experience, but while "no finish" may be reasonable for a bowl, a cup with liquids in it is probably ill-suited to this approach if the intent is to maintain a nice cup. It is unlikely the user of the cup is going to be drinking something containing a great deal of oil so that the cup gets sealed. If the beverage contains sugar or milk the chances of the wood becoming a breeding ground for bacteria is high. Finally, the likelihood of staining is very high if the cup is used for anything other than water.

Drew

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Take a look at this link

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal3a.html

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by whatwoodido
<br />Russ-
Not intending to discount your knowledge or experience, but while "no finish" may be reasonable for a bowl, a cup with liquids in it is probably ill-suited to this approach if the intent is to maintain a nice cup. It is unlikely the user of the cup is going to be drinking something containing a great deal of oil so that the cup gets sealed. If the beverage contains sugar or milk the chances of the wood becoming a breeding ground for bacteria is high. Finally, the likelihood of staining is very high if the cup is used for anything other than water.

Drew

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Take a look at this link

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal3a.html

I don't believe you read my posts completely. The issue is not one of drinking 'oily' liquids. It is one of solvents acting on the finish and making the liquid to be drunk unpalatable. All liquids are solvents to some extent. Water, alcohol, coffee, whatever.
If you just want a nice looking cup that isn't going to be used, go ahead and finish with whatever you desire. My cup may have darkened with age and use. I don't consider that undesirable. It is a wooden 'old timey' type of drinking vessel. It is not m'ladies fine china. Also, if you do some research you will find that wood does not harbor bacteria. There have been extensive tests with cutting boards on this issue. Wood is far and away safer than synthetics as it seems to have natural anti-bacterial properties. Whereas synthetics just let the buggies sit on top waiting to be transferred to other foods. If you doubt me, go ahead and make yourself a cup. Finish it with whatever you choose. Then when you are about to take a sip of your favorite brew or coffee, close your eyes because the sight of all that yuckkie finish floating on top is sure to ruin your desire to gulp. I'm not debating, just passing what I have learned.

 

[whatwoodido]

Frank-
I was responding to Russ not you, and one of Russ's reasons for not finishing a bowl (on his web site) is that the oils from the foods in the bowl will act as a protectorant. Additionally, if you had read my other posts you might have noticed that I was saying that my understanding based on Bob Flexner's book is that not all finishes are affected by all materials/solvents. With your expertise on finishes, I am sure that you are aware that Bob Flexner is considered by many professional woodworkers to be the best source for information on finishes and which ones to use when.

However, as I am not expert on finishes like yourself, I apologize for any disrespect on my part for encouraging Leatherjunkie to use Bob Flexner's book as a reference, particularly when he can rely on your expertise.

Drew

Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />

Originally posted by whatwoodido
<br />Russ-
Not intending to discount your knowledge or experience, but while "no finish" may be reasonable for a bowl, a cup with liquids in it is probably ill-suited to this approach if the intent is to maintain a nice cup. It is unlikely the user of the cup is going to be drinking something containing a great deal of oil so that the cup gets sealed. If the beverage contains sugar or milk the chances of the wood becoming a breeding ground for bacteria is high. Finally, the likelihood of staining is very high if the cup is used for anything other than water.

Drew

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Take a look at this link

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal3a.html

I don't believe you read my posts completely. The issue is not one of drinking 'oily' liquids. It is one of solvents acting on the finish and making the liquid to be drunk unpalatable. All liquids are solvents to some extent. Water, alcohol, coffee, whatever.
If you just want a nice looking cup that isn't going to be used, go ahead and finish with whatever you desire. My cup may have darkened with age and use. I don't consider that undesirable. It is a wooden 'old timey' type of drinking vessel. It is not m'ladies fine china. Also, if you do some research you will find that wood does not harbor bacteria. There have been extensive tests with cutting boards on this issue. Wood is far and away safer than synthetics as it seems to have natural anti-bacterial properties. Whereas synthetics just let the buggies sit on top waiting to be transferred to other foods. If you doubt me, go ahead and make yourself a cup. Finish it with whatever you choose. Then when you are about to take a sip of your favorite brew or coffee, close your eyes because the sight of all that yuckkie finish floating on top is sure to ruin your desire to gulp. I'm not debating, just passing what I have learned.

 

[leatherjunkie]

thanks to everyone that has responded to my question.
it appears that there are so many ways to finish woodturned products that i need to do some more research on this matter.
I will let everyone know what i have decided later.

thanks again for all information and this great website

 

[Rifleman1776]

FWIW: I'm not an expert on finishes. I am an expert on not wanting to drink anything with yuckkies floating on top [xx(] because they were removed by solvents.