Question of Theft

[Travlr7]

Question!

Do any of you have pieces at a gallery on Consignment? If they walk away, who is responsible?

The reason for the question is that my best location is going through a rash of thefts. They paid for the losses, but don't want to any more. I'm deciding whether or not, with the holidays coming up, I should pull everything from there.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce

 

[mrcook4570]

I have pieces on consignment at a few places. I have a contract that states they are responsible for theft, loss, or damage. If they don't want to sign it, then I don't leave any of my work with them.

 

[Tangboy5000]

I agree, if they are holding your work then they are responsible. If they don't want to pay if something happens, don't consign there.

 

[ashaw]

Last year I was selling through one of the craft malls. I had appx $1,000.00 of product taken. I received credit for two months lease and had to lock the cases. As a result, I lost sales because the store was busy enough that the employees could not help any the customers who wanted the pens. I have since than pull my product out of the store.

Alan

 

[Old Griz]

Have to agree with both above... the contract I use makes the shop responsible for loss or damage by theft, fire, natural disaster, etc. IF they don't like it and won't sign my stuff finds another home..
If they are a reputable business, they have insurance to cover these occurances and should be taking care of your materials.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have items in a mall. They are displayed in a locked case. My insurance is that I trust the mall owners. I don't inventory because descriptions are subject to being questioned. e.g. how do you distinguish one walnut slimline from another, or one osage orange duck call from another? [?] For small items like pens, displaying in the open is asking for theft.

 

[ed4copies]

We HAD stained glass in a major chain "craft mall" in Chicago. Around Christmas a 3 dimensional stained glass ship (18" high) and a Wall clock (24" x 10") "disappeared". HAD to be employee theft-NO, they would not reimburse Dawn at all. END OF that chain, for us.

 

[Travlr7]

Thanks for all the input folks. I've been here for over a year - this is the First place that supported me. It's just been in the last month - month and a half that the thefts have occurred.

It's Not employees, but their security is not enough to allow me to continue to show there.

Bruce

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Originally posted by Travlr7
<br />Question!

Do any of you have pieces at a gallery on Consignment? If they walk away, who is responsible?

You do have a contract don't you? If so, what does your contract say?

If you don't have a contract, you need one fast.

 

[ed4copies]

Ron,

I question whether an owner CAN relieve themselves of the responsibility of theft. Your contract is definitely granting full control of the item to the store. With control comes the inherent reasonable responsibility to protect the goods. I think if you could prove the store was negligent (LARGE pieces disappearing-OBVIOUS security flaw), you would prevail under the theory that the store MUST exercise reasonable care with the goods under their control. The one that was taking stuff from Dawn was, however, a subsidiary of a HUGE corporation, they could afford a battery of lawyers to keep us from winning.

It was cheaper to leave!

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Ed you are right. The bigger they are the harder for them to fall.

But all contracts are negotiable by both sides.

Among other clauses there should be one that states who is responsible for lost, damaged or stolen items.

If it is in writing before there is a problem. there could be allot less headaches, don't you agree?

 

[ldimick]

This is what Small Claims court is for. To give the little guy equal footing. In small claims court a corporation must be represented by an attorney. You do not need one unless you are suing as a corporation. Simply present your case and the judge decides. I see no different between the theft and the store keeping your money after they sold it. A judge would agree.

Corporations do not like small claims cases because it costs them more money to defend them than the potential loss.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Lynn

The first thing a judge in small claims court will ask is to see the contract. If the judge doesn't ask for it, and there is no clause, the corporation lawyers will point that out real quick.

You are right again about you don't need a lawyer. But who do you think will have better skills in a court room, a corporate lawyer or an average joe. Remember, there is a good chance the judge was a lawyer themselves.

Most likely the corporation would not even bother to send a lawyer and you will win by default. The sad fact is, just because you win doesn't mean you will collect. AMHIKT

 

[ed4copies]

Ron,

Yes, I agree a contract is better. However, even if you have me sign a waiver, I believe I can prevail against you in Racine County, WI on the basis of your negligence and your employee is YOUR responsibility, therefore I can hold YOU responsible, which leads to Lynn-

I have been in small claims a number of times in Racine, WI, representing Pro-Copy, INCORPORATED and I am NOT an attorney. Every state has it's own laws and the contract we signed assigned the cases to New Jersey. So, we would have to "beat" that paragraph first. Then, I suspect, the jurisdiction would be Illinois, since the branch in question was located near Chicago.

You could very well be correct in your state!![]

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Ed

If you are talking about more than a few thousand dollars then it may be worth the time and trouble.

But if it only a few hundred dollars, it will cost more than it is worth.

Been there, done that, in both cases.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />Lynn

You are right again about you don't need a lawyer. But who do you think will have better skills in a court room, a corporate lawyer or an average joe. Remember, there is a good chance the judge was a lawyer themselves.

Most likely the corporation would not even bother to send a lawyer and you will win by default. The sad fact is, just because you win doesn't mean you will collect. AMHIKT

Ron,

I'm a very above average Joe-have never lost in small claims.

However, I don't take a case there unless I think I have been really scr wed. So far, all the judges have agreed.

And, YOU are correct, winning does not equal collecting!!!

That's another art form!

 

[ed4copies]

Ron,

We type simultaneously.

Moral is: "Ain't it fun to be a small business owner???" Think of the skills you develop!

Now, add to that the old question, "How many audits have YOU endured???"[8][8]

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Originally posted by ed4copies
I'm a very above average Joe-have never lost in small claims.

I'd say you where more like Big Ed

I never lost a case either, I even won against a lawyer once. On the way out of the court room He told me "Now try to collect".

A few years later he hired a new secretary and she sent me some files he needed copied for a big case. Every time she called I would tell her "give me a couple of days and I'll have them ready". When she finally said "But we need them tomorrow" I told her to tell her boss who has the files.

Originally posted by ed4copies
Moral is: "Ain't it fun to be a small business owner???"

Some days are good!

 

[ldimick]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />Lynn

The first thing a judge in small claims court will ask is to see the contract. If the judge doesn't ask for it, and there is no clause, the corporation lawyers will point that out real quick.

It is very easy to collect against a large corp.

A few well asked questions will establish the fact that there is an implied contract and that is no longer an issue.

If the store has sold anything of yours and paid you for it a pattern and a relationship has been established. It is a reasonable expectation that your goods will be protected while in the care of the store.

I would think that you (the person suing) would actually have a very easy time winning this case.

 

[ldimick]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Ron,
Lynn-

I have been in small claims a number of times in Racine, WI, representing Pro-Copy, INCORPORATED and I am NOT an attorney. Every state has it's own laws and the contract we signed assigned the cases to New Jersey. So, we would have to "beat" that paragraph first. Then, I suspect, the jurisdiction would be Illinois, since the branch in question was located near Chicago.

You could very well be correct in your state!![]

I stand corrcted. I thought it was in all states since a corporation cannot represent itself since it is a not a person.

Learned something new today! []

 

[jwoodwright]

Here's some Eye-Opening Info...

There's a lot to Consignment and this attempts to "shed some Light"...

http://www.smartfrogs.com/consign.html

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Good Link John, Thanks

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by ldimick
<br />

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Ron,
Lynn-

I have been in small claims a number of times in Racine, WI, representing Pro-Copy, INCORPORATED and I am NOT an attorney. Every state has it's own laws and the contract we signed assigned the cases to New Jersey. So, we would have to "beat" that paragraph first. Then, I suspect, the jurisdiction would be Illinois, since the branch in question was located near Chicago.

You could very well be correct in your state!![]

I stand corrcted. I thought it was in all states since a corporation cannot represent itself since it is a not a person.

Learned something new today! []

I used to work as a debt collector for a small corporation and represented that corp. in court many times. I am not a lawyer. In Arkansas, a small corp. does not need an attorney, bigger corps. do. Most opposing lawyers did not know that and I always brought a copy of the statute with me to present to the court. That always embarrassed the lawyers, being whooped by a layman. BTW, I never lost.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />

I never lost a case either, I even won against a lawyer once. On the way out of the court room He told me "Now try to collect".

A few years later he hired a new secretary and she sent me some files he needed copied for a big case. Every time she called I would tell her "give me a couple of days and I'll have them ready". When she finally said "But we need them tomorrow" I told her to tell her boss who has the files.

Originally posted by ed4copies
Moral is: "Ain't it fun to be a small business owner???"

Some days are good!

Ron, this is one of the few posts that actually made me laugh out loud-oh the joy of irony!!! I'll bet he was thrilled when you informed him you most certainly would accept his check........ as long as it was certified (he has already proven his ethics, once).