Poll Question 4

[mbroberg]

How should winners of IAP contests be determined?

*Contest winners should be determined by judges.

*Contest winners, INCLUDING Photo Contest winners, should be determined by the members.

*Contest winners, EXCEPT FOR Photo Contest winners, should be determined by the members.

*Contests winners, INCLUDING Photo Contest winners, should be determined by the members after the field of entries has been narrowed by judges.

*Contests winners, EXCEPT FOR Photo Contest winners, should be determined by the members after the field of entries has been narrowed by judges.

*Other (Please post your suggestion or PM it to mbroberg)

Please read this post before voting

IAP contest winners are currently chosen by one of several methods. The chair-person of each contest is the person who decides the method in which contest winners are determined. There are currently three ways IAP contest winners are selected.

One way is by a popular vote (poll). It is fairly straight forward. The judging criteria are posted, the membership at large votes and the winner(s) are selected based upon number of votes received. Whether the winner is selected in one round of voting or several rounds of voting is immaterial. The important thing is that the members determine the winner. Proponents of this method say this is a fair and transparent way to select the winners of contests. Opponents say the entries are not judged consistently by the judging criteria and the winner is ultimately selected by "Wow Factor"

Another way winners of IAP contests have been selected is by a panel of judges. The judges are often anonymous but it is not really necessary that they be anonymous. Proponents of this method say that this is fairer because all of the entries are judged on the same set of criteria. The "Wow Factor doesn't influence the judges like it would the membership at large unless, of course, "Wow Factor was one of the criteria that the judges are supposed to look for. Opponents of this method want more transparency in the selection process. They want to have a voice in selecting a winner. They want to be involved. They believe that this community is made up of pen makers of all experience levels and they are very capable of selecting a winner based upon defined judging criteria.

Lastly, there is a hybrid of Judges and open polls. The judges select a number of 'Finalists" from all the entries and the membership determines the winner(s) by open voting. The pros and cons of both the other methods come into play.

It has been argued that the Photo Contest MUST be judged by a panel of judges who know what to look for when determining whether or not the photo is composed properly. There is a fear that if the Photo Contest were to be judged by open voting then it would be a "pretty picture of a pen contest", not a true photo contest where all the technical elements that make up a professional quality photo are taken into consideration. Therefore, a couple of the responses are offered twice; once to include the photo contest and once to exclude the photo contest. Please read the responses carefully so you will vote the way you intend to.

This poll will remain open indefinitely. Future IAP activities will be influenced by the results.

 

[Monty]

How should winners of IAP contests be determined?

• Contest winners should be determined by judges.
• Contest winners should be determined by the members.
• Contests winners should be determined by the members after the field of entries has been narrowed by judges.
• Other (Please post your suggestion or PM it to mbroberg)

Please read this post before voting

IAP contest winners are currently chosen by one of several methods. The chair-person of each contest is the person who decides the method in which contest winners are determined. There are currently three ways IAP contest winners are selected.

One way is by a popular vote (poll). It is fairly straight forward. The judging criteria are posted, the membership at large votes and the winner(s) are selected based upon number of votes received. Whether the winner is selected in one round of voting or several rounds of voting is immaterial. The important thing is that the members determine the winner. Proponents of this method say this is a fair and transparent way to select the winners of contests. Opponents say the entries are not judged consistently by the judging criteria and the winner is ultimately selected by "Wow Factor"

Another way winners of IAP contests have been selected is by a panel of judges. The judges are often anonymous but it is not really necessary that they be anonymous. Proponents of this method say that this is fairer because all of the entries are judged on the same set of criteria. The "Wow Factor doesn't influence the judges like it would the membership at large unless, of course, "Wow Factor was one of the criteria that the judges are supposed to look for. Opponents of this method want more transparency in the selection process. They want to have a voice in selecting a winner. They want to be involved. They believe that this community is made up of pen makers of all experience levels and they are very capable of selecting a winner based upon defined judging criteria.

Lastly, there is a hybrid of Judges and open polls. The judges select a number of 'Finalists" from all the entries and the membership determines the winner(s) by open voting. The pros and cons of both the other methods come into play.

This poll will remain open indefinitely. Future IAP activities will be influenced by the results.

Looks great except a typo changed in blue.

 

[mbroberg]

Thank you Mannie!

 

[Displaced Canadian]

It will work.

 

[MesquiteMan]

I am not sure the benefit of this poll. Some contests need to use judges. The photo contest, for example. If you just allowed member voting with no judges, then it would simply become the a pretty pen contest rather than a contest of photo quality. Most IAP member do not know a well composed photo if they saw one. We have seen this with PM replies in the past where someone thought a certain picture should have won when the photo was obviously not as good as the one that won.

If the poll results are going to be binding and dictate policy, I hope you keep this in mind.

 

[mbroberg]

I am not sure the benefit of this poll. Some contests need to use judges. The photo contest, for example. If you just allowed member voting with no judges, then it would simply become the a pretty pen contest rather than a contest of photo quality. Most IAP member do not know a well composed photo if they saw one. We have seen this with PM replies in the past where someone thought a certain picture should have won when the photo was obviously not as good as the one that won.

If the poll results are going to be binding and dictate policy, I hope you keep this in mind.

Your correct on some of your points (which means I can agree with you) but on others you are wrong (which means I don't agree with you) :biggrin:

I added a few more choices and the paragraph at the end. Does this address your concerns?

This is why I post early and ask for input. :wink:

 

[MesquiteMan]

Well, since I am the one who came up with the photo contest, my response holds more weight than yours, Mike. :biggrin:

Seriously, if I am involved with the photo contest in the future, it will still uses judges. I think sometimes you have to allow the chair of the contest to set the rules which include if it is judged or not. No one has to participate if they don't like the way it is run. Otherwise, you might as well put up a poll to see what rules the members want for every detail of the contest. Of course that is not reasonable and neither is having a photo contest without judges, IMO. I modeled the rules for the photo contest when I came up with them based on looking a about 25 different photo contests on the net. Every one of them that were true photo contests dealing with the skill of taking a photo had judges that were experienced in high quality photography.

Let's face it, the pen contest are not much more than a photo contest themselves. There is no way to determine the quality of a pen by looking at a photo. If it is deemed that the photo contest has to allow member voting, then I propose that we do away with the photo contest completely since it will no longer be a contest about improving your photography.

There, I said me piece! Take no offense as I know you won't!!

 

[mbroberg]

Curtis my friend, I will never be offended by feedback that I asked for. I'll debate it with you, if we need to, after the results are known.

What is important to me right now is to fairly present both sides of the issues for the members to consider before voting. So, you just keep pointing out the things I miss and I'll go back and edit the post, as well as I can, to include what I missed, even if I don't necessarily agree 100%. In reality, I don't really care how the contests are judged. What I care very much about is doing what ever I can to give the members a fun filled Birthday Bash.

Nothing is ever binding. Keep in mind though that I believe that the Bash is for the members and our job is to give the members what THEY want, which might not necessarily be what WE want.:wink:

PS, I have no problem with you joining any discussion that takes place on the poll thread once it is posted. Why shouldn't you be able to publicly state your position just like any other member can? No reason I can think of.

 

[MesquiteMan]

PS, I have no problem with you joining any discussion that takes place on the poll thread once it is posted. Why shouldn't you be able to publicly state your position just like any other member can? No reason I can think of.

Don't worry, I am not afraid of voicing my opinion as you know!