Pen Cracking?

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DrewW

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Oct 18, 2019
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7
Location
OKC
Has anyone had problems with their finished pens cracking along the grain? I have had 4 pens and a cigar case crack develop cracks on the ends about 2-3 weeks after they were finished. 2 pens and cigar case were cocobolo with a CA finish (2 coats thin and 8 coats pen CA), 1 pen was iron wood (beeswax finish), 1 pen pink ivory with a CA finish. Off the lathe they were fine, but later they cracked. Any suggestions?

Thank you.
 
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hokie

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May 29, 2017
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Falls Church, Virginia
Do you know the moisture content of the wood or if they were milled relatively recently? If the wood wasn't at a moisture equilibrium, it's possible cracking could happen in dry winter air after a while.
 

Dalecamino

Local Chapter Leader
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Jan 2, 2008
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Indianapolis, In.
I had two zippered cases with pens that cracked when I left them in my car while I was having some refreshments at a bar where my daughter worked. One of our members said that the brass tubes expand in extreme cold or hot conditions. Other than being in the freezing cold for hours, they were stored on a book shelf in my home. Could this be what happened to your pens?
 

leehljp

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Feb 6, 2005
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Tunica, Mississippi,
You aren't by any chance using StickFast CA or 2 year old CA are you. I had some StickFast glue do that last year and it wasn't but a few months old.
 

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
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Sep 6, 2012
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12,720
Location
Medina, Ohio
Many variables: Wood moisture; CA issues; local temp/humidity; glue used to affix the tube, etc.

A few years ago I had a CA finished pen in my pocket, went to work at 5:15 AM. -22 degrees that morning. I started up the van, put the pen in the cup holder as it was rubbing the seat belt strap. As I waited for the van to warm up, I could actually HEAR the pen finish cracking. I picked it up and looked at it and it looked like a spider web. :eek:.

You are in Oklahoma? I'll suspect not a temp/humidity local issue, so wood moisture, CA issues or tube glue issues. Just a guess.
 

Fred Bruche

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Feb 11, 2018
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972
Location
Philadelphia 19146
Mentioned above, wood moisture would be my guess as well. Some hardwoods, especially when not fully dry, that are high on the Janka scale get "stressed" if too much heat is generated during the turning process, could be drilling or turning or sanding and end up cracking after some time. Snakewood is the most known example, but I have experienced a similar effect once for a desert ironwood blank.
 

DrewW

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
7
Location
OKC
Thank you for all of the replies. As far as my CA, I am using "Insta-Bond" brand but it is probably a year old. I use "Stick Fast" activator after every second coat. I am using two part "Quick Cure 5" epoxy for the tube glue, again about a year old. As far as the moisture content, I have never measured it (rookie mistake). I usually let them sit in a spare room in the house for a couple of weeks because I assumed they were "seasoned" when I bought them...usually from Craft Supplies USA or my local Woodcraft store.

Thanks again.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,523
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
In 20 plus years of making pens, I have learned never to assume a blank is dry enough to make a pen!!

This makes sense when you think about it. The guy who cuts the tree wants to sell the wood quickly==the guy who buys the wood is probably converting to pen blank size, he wants to turn it quickly, the guy who sells it to the penturner will put it on the market--the best stuff will sell first, probably before it is dry.. So, the "blah" blanks will have time to dry.

As a vendor, I just bought several thousand blanks from Australia. They had to be fumigated for a month (to allow into USA) But, they are still very wet. As a penturner, I will either advertise them as top quality (I got lucky) and wet or I will wait and dry them, in which case they will be more expensive as I have a lot of money tied up.

I am truly interested, would the penturning community prefer lower cost for great wood you have to dry or higher cost for "ready to turn" burl blanks??

comments welcome, I may start another thread on this, later.

Ed
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
3,033
Location
Wolf Creek Montana
In 20 plus years of making pens, I have learned never to assume a blank is dry enough to make a pen!!

This makes sense when you think about it. The guy who cuts the tree wants to sell the wood quickly==the guy who buys the wood is probably converting to pen blank size, he wants to turn it quickly, the guy who sells it to the penturner will put it on the market--the best stuff will sell first, probably before it is dry.. So, the "blah" blanks will have time to dry.

As a vendor, I just bought several thousand blanks from Australia. They had to be fumigated for a month (to allow into USA) But, they are still very wet. As a penturner, I will either advertise them as top quality (I got lucky) and wet or I will wait and dry them, in which case they will be more expensive as I have a lot of money tied up.

I am truly interested, would the penturning community prefer lower cost for great wood you have to dry or higher cost for "ready to turn" burl blanks??

comments welcome, I may start another thread on this, later.

Ed

Good question Ed. I check every blank before I turn it. I've bought "Dry" blanks only to test them and the moisture meter show a 13% water content and then I bought blanks that were either advertised as "wet" or not and put the meter to them and gotten a reading of 3%. I think the best thing is for every turner to check the content prior to turning. Getting them advertised as "Dry" doesn't always mean they're totally dry and turnable. There's lots of variables, like geography. Here in Montana our relative humidity is very low so wood that I dry here dries much faster than say some places on the East/West Coast or even on the Islands like Hawaii that have much higher humidity levels. But I think it's a good question to ask the group.
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,082
Location
NJ, USA.
In 20 plus years of making pens, I have learned never to assume a blank is dry enough to make a pen!!

This makes sense when you think about it. The guy who cuts the tree wants to sell the wood quickly==the guy who buys the wood is probably converting to pen blank size, he wants to turn it quickly, the guy who sells it to the penturner will put it on the market--the best stuff will sell first, probably before it is dry.. So, the "blah" blanks will have time to dry.

As a vendor, I just bought several thousand blanks from Australia. They had to be fumigated for a month (to allow into USA) But, they are still very wet. As a penturner, I will either advertise them as top quality (I got lucky) and wet or I will wait and dry them, in which case they will be more expensive as I have a lot of money tied up.

I am truly interested, would the penturning community prefer lower cost for great wood you have to dry or higher cost for "ready to turn" burl blanks??

comments welcome, I may start another thread on this, later.

Ed
I think there are questions to be asked and answered before that final question can be answered. First how are you drying them?? Are you going to sticker thousands of pen blanks? Are you going to force dry with ovens or are you going to air dry for a certain time?? Are you going to guarantee the moisture content of each blank as it leaves the shop?? How can you be sure of cracking in blanks due to drying process?? All wood takes on moisture due to environment and temps and humidity levels. Unless you hermetically seal in some form of protection there is no guarantee of the moisture levels.

My thoughts are every pen turner, woodworker, wood blank seller, harvester of wood should be aware of the moisture factor when working with a product that is alive and takes on moisture and wood is not the only product. I do believe it is the right thing for vendors to have a label or warning about moisture content and it does not have to be specific about amounts because that can vary from piece to piece even in the same lot. As pen turners we should know the effects of wet wood when it comes to cracking and sealing in moisture. This is all part of both woodworking and pen turning. As a woodworker I am concerned all the time about wood movement which you can not stop.

My suggestion is to have a label and also a place on your site to show how to dry wooden blanks such as a video if you do not have one now. Maybe have suggestions for moisture meters of good quality and in the video show how they are used. I would sell blanks as is and let the buyer beware and have at his disposal of how to deal with wet lumber or pen blanks. There is a ton of info out there and this question comes up alot here and mostly gets referred to as cracks in blanks. But with all that said the buyer must also be aware that some woods are just prone to cracking no matter what you do and burls are high on that list because of the wild grain patterns and the force applied. The owness would be on the buyer to use whatever method they choose to dry the blank check the blank and turn the blank to make into a pen blank. That is my point and opinion being you asked.
 

budnder

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Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
527
Location
Chicago/Tucson
When I first got started I had issues with cracking in the finish. At some point in poking around for info, I came across a post that pointed to this web page:



I don't know how accurate the thinking or science is behind it, but I was using a glue on the bad list/accelerates with acetone ("Stik Fast"), and when I switched to something on the good list/accelerates with Naptha or Heptane ("Satellite City"), my issues went away and I didn't change anything else about what I was doing.
 

MiteyF

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Jan 27, 2018
Messages
187
Location
Bay area
I've never had this problem, but while searching for ways to speed up drying of green-turned bowls, I found a method for using silica desiccants for quickly drying wood. So far it has worked a treat. You just put the wood in a sealed(ish) bag with the desiccant for 24 to 48 hours until the weight stabilizes, and turn. Maybe give that a shot?
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
While it can be green wood, cracking can occur on wood that is NOT "green" also. The one time that I had cracking - was about a year ago. It was on a pen that I made in 2008, (my "30 Pieces of Silver" pen). The 2008 finish was scratched and worn and I decided to put a new finish on it. I disassembled the pen, turned the old scratched and worn finish off and applied a fresh finish to it. For a few days, it looked great, just like new, and then one morning I picked it up and it looked like a mosaic pattern of glass. A few weeks later I took the cracked finish off and added a new finish of my old trusted CA brand of BSI. Hasn't cracked since (at least I think it hasn't) as LOML has it in her purse.

 
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byany2525

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Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
3
Location
usa
You aren't by any chance using StickFast CA or 2 year old CA are you. I had some StickFast glue do that last year and it wasn't but a few months old.
is stick fast a poor choice of glue? I only ask because I'm about to buy a new bottle of glue and activator. I want to get a solid product.
 

jttheclockman

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Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,082
Location
NJ, USA.
is stick fast a poor choice of glue? I only ask because I'm about to buy a new bottle of glue and activator. I want to get a solid product.
YES YES YES Others will have their choices but I like Satelite glues "hot Stuff" https://www.caglue.com/
Even if you do not buy from them or use their product, there is a very good facts sheet on their site that answers many questions that have been asked over and over again here. May pay to give a look -see. Good luck.
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
is stick fast a poor choice of glue? I only ask because I'm about to buy a new bottle of glue and activator. I want to get a solid product.

Stickfast might be a good glue. However for about 6 months to a year, there were some problems for several here with that brand. It could have been a bad batch. Lately, I haven't seen any more complaints.
 

Humongous

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Feb 20, 2019
Messages
382
Location
Canandaigua, NY
YES YES YES Others will have their choices but I like Satelite glues "hot Stuff" https://www.caglue.com/
Even if you do not buy from them or use their product, there is a very good facts sheet on their site that answers many questions that have been asked over and over again here. May pay to give a look -see. Good luck.
Another thumbs up for Satellite City products. I have never had a problem with their line, I primarily use the thin "Hot Stuff" and medium "Super T"
 
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