DFR
Member
Question is, if the tubes are scuffed up or etched to get the epoxy to adhere, wouldn't painting them then take away the ability for the glue to adhere?
Painting tubes?
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John Eldeen
Member
I would say the epoxy will adhere just fine to the paint. If you are concerned about it once the paint is dry you could scuff it as well. On a different note but the same topic you might be better served to paint the inside of the blank rather than the tube. I have had much better results by painting the inside of the blank.
@DFR
I have often wondered about the answer to the question you have posed.
My preference, as others suggest, is to paint the inside of the drilled blank. . Doing that at least allows the paint to mask imperfections in the application of the glue, as well as masking imperfections left on the hole "surface" from the drilling process.
Actually, I strongly question whether "adherence" is a major issue once the pen is properly assembled, but I stand to be corrected on that.
I am inclined to think of the glue as primarily a void filler with adhesion as a secondary benefit until the pen parts are pressed together in such a way as to lock the brass tube in position. . I am pretty sure that the application of paint to either (or both) surfaces must necessarily weaken any adhesive role that the glue would otherwise have.
Pressing the nib and finial parts of the pen kit into the brass tube causes some compression of the metal which aids in "locking" pieces in place.
Of course, painting is a useful step only if the transparency of the blank material is a matter of concern.
I have often wondered about the answer to the question you have posed.
My preference, as others suggest, is to paint the inside of the drilled blank. . Doing that at least allows the paint to mask imperfections in the application of the glue, as well as masking imperfections left on the hole "surface" from the drilling process.
Actually, I strongly question whether "adherence" is a major issue once the pen is properly assembled, but I stand to be corrected on that.
I am inclined to think of the glue as primarily a void filler with adhesion as a secondary benefit until the pen parts are pressed together in such a way as to lock the brass tube in position. . I am pretty sure that the application of paint to either (or both) surfaces must necessarily weaken any adhesive role that the glue would otherwise have.
Pressing the nib and finial parts of the pen kit into the brass tube causes some compression of the metal which aids in "locking" pieces in place.
Of course, painting is a useful step only if the transparency of the blank material is a matter of concern.
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howsitwork
Member
How do you paint the inside of the blank and get an even coating?
I too wonder about adhesion of adhesive to paint but if paint has cured it can be really difficult to remove from metal surfaces . I'd never considered the masking effect on the adhesive joint integrity Magpens but actually on some semi transparent pens you can see air pockets in the adhesive layer even though I have used slow set epoxy, retooled the tube on insertion and pump auctioned it in and out to get an even layer ( so I thought before turning it ).
I too wonder about adhesion of adhesive to paint but if paint has cured it can be really difficult to remove from metal surfaces . I'd never considered the masking effect on the adhesive joint integrity Magpens but actually on some semi transparent pens you can see air pockets in the adhesive layer even though I have used slow set epoxy, retooled the tube on insertion and pump auctioned it in and out to get an even layer ( so I thought before turning it ).
I get an even coat of paint by using spray point from each end for a second or two. I then mount the blank in my chuck and spin at max rpm. Nice smooth coat.
Danny
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howsitwork
Member
Thanks Danny so that's cellulose paint is it?
@howsitwork
Ans: .... with considerable difficulty, uncertainty, more than one coat, and a little intervention from "Oh High".
It helps if you hold your tongue just right, also.
I use a Q-Tip (you can get single-ended ones with long sticks).
As "paint" I use the colored fluid out of glass markers. . I find that easier to apply, and it dries fairly quickly (20 mins or so).
One problem is the limited color availability so you may have to do some color mixing.
The brand name is Rust-Oleum ... you know, the paint company. . It was purely by chance that I discovered this stuff at a disposal store.
It works quite well on "acrylic"-type blanks, believe it or not.
Ans: .... with considerable difficulty, uncertainty, more than one coat, and a little intervention from "Oh High".
It helps if you hold your tongue just right, also.
I use a Q-Tip (you can get single-ended ones with long sticks).
As "paint" I use the colored fluid out of glass markers. . I find that easier to apply, and it dries fairly quickly (20 mins or so).
One problem is the limited color availability so you may have to do some color mixing.
The brand name is Rust-Oleum ... you know, the paint company. . It was purely by chance that I discovered this stuff at a disposal store.
It works quite well on "acrylic"-type blanks, believe it or not.
howsitwork
Member
Not sure I can get rust oelum this side of the pond but I can find equivalents .
Cotton throat swabs should give me the reach to get down a tube I figure. Spinning at speed t9 get an even coating seems a good idea too. Thanks folks
Now just got to wait for the moon to be in the right phase and the four leaved clovers to come up and I'm sorted
Cotton throat swabs should give me the reach to get down a tube I figure. Spinning at speed t9 get an even coating seems a good idea too. Thanks folks
Now just got to wait for the moon to be in the right phase and the four leaved clovers to come up and I'm sorted
leehljp
Member Liaison
One problem with adherence and painting in particular: lack of patience! Let the paint Dry, and Cure, not just set up. some paints that have not cured will interact with some glues and curing times become glacial.
Concerning adherence: if you ever have a blowout, look at the glue in the blown out piece. It is amazing on how much glue can be used and then see all of the space in which there was not any adherence. That is why I used polyurethane most of the time; it expands and MAKES contact everywhere. I don't remember of reading of any blowouts from polyurethane glue. I could have missed it.
This wasn't asked but I will through this information out anyway, as it is related.:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f19/seeing-believing-reverse-painting-151785/
Seeing is believing.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/painting-tubes-vs-blanks-152461/#post1959325
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/reverse-painting-different-effects-132612/
Concerning adherence: if you ever have a blowout, look at the glue in the blown out piece. It is amazing on how much glue can be used and then see all of the space in which there was not any adherence. That is why I used polyurethane most of the time; it expands and MAKES contact everywhere. I don't remember of reading of any blowouts from polyurethane glue. I could have missed it.
This wasn't asked but I will through this information out anyway, as it is related.:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f19/seeing-believing-reverse-painting-151785/
Seeing is believing.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/painting-tubes-vs-blanks-152461/#post1959325
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/reverse-painting-different-effects-132612/
Reverse Painting Revisited
I recently posted some photos of pens made using the same type of blank, but reverse painted with different colors, showing some dramatic effects. Here are two more using the same cream lucite blank. The first photo shows turning the blank. The portion on the left is turned almost to...
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DrD
Member
I learned the hard way that with many acrylics, if the inside of the blank is not painted, you may be able to discern the swirl pattern on the tubes as a result of gluing the tubes into the blank. As far as how to paint the inside of the blank I have found the easiest, most foolproof way is to apply plastic safe model paint with a que-tip.
PBorowick
Member
Could you color your 5 min. epoxy that you use for gluing in the tube?
Yes, you could, but it's not as good !!! . (And that's a rhyme !!)
Can you guess why ?
The reason is that you have very little control over how the glue distributes itself, whereas you do control the painting of the inside of the hole.
PBorowick
Member
Well fine, be that that magpens....your logic shall not defeat me!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually that is a very good point, if you don't get good coverage with the epoxy it would probably look even worse.
Actually that is a very good point, if you don't get good coverage with the epoxy it would probably look even worse.
randyrls
Member
Dan; I've never had a problem with adherence. I just use a spray rattle can. Give each end of the blank a 2 second PSSSFFTT. Wear gloves. Let the blank dry overnight. Different colors will change the color of the blank. White will make the blank "brighter" Black or gray will make the blank color duller, The same color as the blank will make the color more vivid. With white pearlescent blanks you can make the blanks any color you want.
Bob F
Member
we ( Franklin Blanks and crafts )make and sell thousands of hybrid blanks each year and while our blanks are made with extra mica or pigments to help with this - we still recommend you paint the HOLE , reason being is that we do use a lot of chamelion pigments or interference pigments in our blanks and they can show some translucent areas at times but they give the blank extra depth-- the recommendation by us from years of testing is to paint the hole with a spray paint made for plastics ( after all thats the area of the blank we want the best adhesion to ) -or use an all surface (including plastics) spray paint - I scuff the tube , use nitrile gloves , shake the can well -spray over a trash can- spray the hole from each end -look inside and make sure all surfaces are coated well and not thin , then -place on a paper towel with the hole down so any run off is absorbed by the towel and not puddled in the hole - then you must either let dry for the time recommended per instructions on can -or once the paint has skinned over put the blanks on a warm surface or in an oven and help bake the paint on (even 150 degrees really helps set the paint and speed things a bit ). Typically i use and prefer black about 75% of the time as it helps make the color and sparkle from the mica really pop --white will lighten the over color of the blank or silver goes with almost any color ---I personally recommend then that you either use an epoxy or gorilla glue for the tube adhesion -- with gorilla glue being my glue of choice because it is a gap filling glue and will adhere better to loose fits
Just "rattle can" spray paint. Krylon or Rustoleum.
penicillin
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 1,036
I am working on a breast cancer pen with a pink acrylic blank.
I made one once before - I painted the tube pink but did not paint the blank. I used pink rattle can acrylic spray, Rustoleum. I used epoxy to glue the tubes inside. The pen turned out pretty well, one of my better efforts.
This time, I tried spraying the tubes AND the blanks. It has been painful from the start. After allowing them to cure for many days, I discovered that the tubes would not go in the blanks. I finally reamed out the blanks and sanded the tubes, then painted the tubes again. The tubes went in with difficulty, not happily. I used Clear Gorilla Glue (silane, not polyurethane) to glue in the tubes. The glue provided some lubrication, which helped me get the tubes in. They are milled and mounted on the lathe, ready to turn. The bushings were very tight, due to a small amount of paint on the inside of the tubes that the pen mill did not remove. I hope it looks okay when assembled. It may have to wait a week for me to get to it.
Photos:
First breast cancer pen, January 2019. Pink paint on tubes only. Five minute epoxy in the two-part syringe for glue.
I made one once before - I painted the tube pink but did not paint the blank. I used pink rattle can acrylic spray, Rustoleum. I used epoxy to glue the tubes inside. The pen turned out pretty well, one of my better efforts.
This time, I tried spraying the tubes AND the blanks. It has been painful from the start. After allowing them to cure for many days, I discovered that the tubes would not go in the blanks. I finally reamed out the blanks and sanded the tubes, then painted the tubes again. The tubes went in with difficulty, not happily. I used Clear Gorilla Glue (silane, not polyurethane) to glue in the tubes. The glue provided some lubrication, which helped me get the tubes in. They are milled and mounted on the lathe, ready to turn. The bushings were very tight, due to a small amount of paint on the inside of the tubes that the pen mill did not remove. I hope it looks okay when assembled. It may have to wait a week for me to get to it.
Photos:
First breast cancer pen, January 2019. Pink paint on tubes only. Five minute epoxy in the two-part syringe for glue.
I only paint the blank and spinning while wet reduces the thick spots leaving room for the tube. Let cure at least 24 hours and deburr/sand the outside of the tube so it doesn't scrape the paint.
Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
mark james
IAP Collection, Curator
Since the initial post you have gotten amply excellent suggestions. This is what I have had good success with:
- Scuff the tubes.
- Paint the tubes/wait 24 hrs to cure. (Paint - see previous posts for good suggestions)
- Paint the inside of the blanks/wait 24 hrs to cure (done at the same time as the above).
- Put a drop of paint into my 2 part epoxy. Glue in the tubes. (I have never had any issues with the epoxy losing adherence). Wait 24 hrs. This gives a very slight tint, but works to color the epoxy without degrading the adherence).
This has worked for me.
DFR
Member
Wow. Lots of suggestions. Now to experiment and find my way. Thanks for the help.