Not to poo poo anything but...

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MesquiteMan

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
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Not to poo poo anything but when did we start allowing vendors to sponsor one of the official contests for the bash? Not saying I am against this but if this is what we are going to allow, then we really should have opened this up and made it available to some of our regular vendors to see if they wanted to sponsor a contest and have their name and website address associated with it. I am specifically referencing the wood ID contest.
 
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No one checked with me about it, so unless someone else gave permission we haven't started allowing vendors to sponsor any contests.

I just checked the thread and it appears that whatever company identifier they had displayed is now gone.
 
Well, I just noticed Jeff gave a shout out to Berea for the gift certificate they donated. I don't see where it says that Bad Dog Burls is sponsoring the contest (I may have missed that), just a line that gives the Web Site Address, much like you have in your signiture line. I am open to discussion / direction. I'm fairly new to the moderator part of the job.
 
That's why you will notice my signature is not part of my photo contest announcement. Like I said, I really don't care one way or another but having the line at the end of the contest announcement telling folks to please visit the Bad Dog Burls website is favoring them. I will want to put a line at the end of the photo contest telling folks to please visit TurnTex.com and if sponsoring a contest would have been an option, I would have donated all the prizes for that contest myself. Also, Bad Dog is not even a regular participant here at IAP. I am sure many of the regular vendors would have loved to sponsor a contest with their website in the contest announcement.

As far as noting who donated an item and giving a link, that is a different story since it is not perceived as that vendor sponsoring that particular contest.

Again, I don't have a real issue with it if that is the way we want to go. I know that in the past this type of specific contest sponsorship was discussed in previous bashes and was decided that we did not want to go there but this is this year and not last year!!
 
I do not see any sponsorship. Please point out to me where Bad Dog Burls is identified as a sponsor. Point out where the word sponsor appears, or the phrase, Brought to you by" or anything similar. All I see was a post by the contest coordinator who identifies Bad Dog Burls as the prize donor and giving the link. I agree, as you stated above, that is not perceived as sponsorship so I don't understand why you are perceiving it as sponsorship.

In looking through the threads prize donors are recognized throughout, including on the master prize list the Jeff is puitting together.

Sorry, there is nothing that even comes close to, "sponsorship" that I can see in that thread. Again, if I missed it, please point it out here.
 
Mike,

Here is the contest announcement in full:
Rob Doyle of Bad Dog Burls has donated 16 blanks of varying degrees of rarity and difficulty in determining.Starting tonight, and for the next three SUNDAYS, I will be posting four pieces of wood together. One group shot, and one of each blank showing two wetted sides.
The first person to guess all four will win those blanks, plus a few extras.
If no one guess all four, then the first person who gets three will win only the blanks for that week.
If no one guesses at least three, then those blanks will get identified on Sunday, and added to the next weeks blanks for the person who guesses four.
I will attempt to give a new clue or two each day and will say if any have been correctly identified, but not which ones for the first few days.
Any blanks left after the fourth Sunday will get identified, and donated to the IAP for a future usage.
Please visit his site at www.burlsource.com.
Click to expand...

The part I am questioning is the last part of the announcement. When a contest organizer says that so and so donated the prizes for a specific contest and then at the end asks folks to please visit that person's website, that is indeed a sponsorship of that contest.

Again, if that is going to be allowed, then that is fine by me. However, I should be allowed to change the contest announcement to tell folks that I have donated a number of the prizes for the photo contest and then I will ask them to please visit my website at the bottom of the contest rules. (of course I will NOT do that, I am just using this as an example)

What if Smitty volunteered to donate a number of pen kits for a contest where folks have to identify the parts of a kit and then at the end, folks are asked to visit his website. I know it is a fine line between providing a link to the donor and that it is common for Jeff to do that but in Jeff's case, no single donor is being recognized so there is no perception of any specific donor sponsoring Jeff's donation drawing contest.
 
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of sponsorship.

While your opinion is that it is, "Indeed sponsorship" my opinion is that is in, "no way" sponsorship.

Won't be the first time someone disagreed with me, how about you?

This whole subject should be examined during the next year's bash, or better yet, after this year's bash. Maybe we need guidelines to cover the placement of links and the mentioning of vendors. I just can't see the one post, that isn't even in the actual contest post, as being over any olne.

Others can feel free to chime in, but I really think that this discussion, if needed, should take place before the event, not after the event has started unless the "misconduct" is so blatent that immediate action is necessay. I don't think that this particular incident is.
 
I actually agree with Curtis on the link to Bad Dog's burl source getting a special link in the contest announcement, esp. considering he just donated the blanks (and not a huge prize).

I think it's fine to say where the prize comes from at the start, but we should ask Jerry to remove the last line. All sponsors will get credit on the front page when Jeff puts the list on the main page; that's as close to advertising that we get.

For the donation drawing, I asked Jeff to indicate which prizes that he bought, and which were donated by different companies, so that credit goes where it is due.
 
Mike, this is the first time anyone has disagreed with me! I am always right, just ask my wife!

I am just concerned that this sets a precedence. It was not discussed before because we have not done it before and no one knew what Jerry was going to post since it was never posted in the bash planning forum ahead of time. I just see that it could be a real problem if after every prize I have for the birthday bash, I put a note asking folks to please visit that vendor's website and gave the link. It looks like advertising to me which to me, is the definition of sponsorship. Whatever you decide is fine with me, we just need to know what the rules are so that everyone is treated equally!
 
I agree with Curtis.

I also don't see why we can't have sponsors of certain events during the bash. It may be easier to get some things sponsored instead of having just prizes donated. Purely for example. Wouldn't you think Alumilite would sponsor some sort of casting contest?

Of course I am the new guy here so maybe that has been tried before and didnt work so well?

And my thought on the sig line is totally different. The sig lines are accepted by tos. If Mad dog posted and had a link thats fine. But this is someone posting and pointing out where to go.

Mike think like this. Would it be acceptable for Ed to post in the trivia he is distributing prizes please visit exotic blanks.
 
Alrighty Then. I edited the last line out of the post and sent Jerry a PM explaining that it appeared to be, "Advertising". I informed him that all contributors to the Bash would be getting recognition for their donations.
 
In the 2007 bash I believe, Klingspoor sponsored the entire trivia contest. That was very well advertised, no question at all that it was a sponsored event. So, there is precedent.

I don't have a strong opinion on which is the right way to go, but it should be consistent, as Curtis points out, and should be decided before the bash, as Mike points out.
 
I did add the visit his site on my own accord, as I had not been invited to find out about the workings of this bash until today.

Curtis, I commend you for removing your sig line, and standing up to what you have seen/heard here in the past.

However, to go along with this, I also think that if ANY vendor sponsors ANYTHING, no matter how big or small (or the perception of) then there should be at least a decent cursory acknowledgement.
This I am fairly certain will be a good way to show sponsors/donors that we do appreciate what they have done.

This also makes it a wee bit easier to get further sponsorships.

I will let you folks know that the main reason that I could not get Harbor Freight to do a decent donation was because they wanted a guarantee of some sort of spotlighting to cover what they "paid" for. There is still some hope that I can get the regional manager to do something, but once again, they as a business do need to typically see some sort of bang for their buck.

If they are to donate, then they would just like to see their name brough up for the contest they are participating in.

Sincerely

Jerry Sambrook
413-569-0543
 
JerrySambrook said:
Curtis, I commend you for removing your sig line, and standing up to what you have seen/heard here in the past.
Click to expand...

The main reason I removed my sig in my contest announcement is because Ed assigned a couple of my donated prizes to the photo contest and I was concerned about the perception that I was sponsoring the contest. I even called Ed to discuss it and after we talked, we decided that it was not an issue.

Again, I don't have a strong opinion about vendor sponsoring of contests one way or another, I just did not want to see one sponsor getting better treatment than another. My feelings on that have were not influenced by TurnTex donating anything either, just for the record. I don't donate for the recognition but rather because I want to support IAP. I want to dance with the one who brung me as my plumber would say!
 
Now that I have "conquered" my snow issues, I can take some time to address this one.

I agree that we are ALL here to support the IAP. AND the question was raised, when there was no "skin" contest, what could replace it. I suggested the name the wood contest. After that was accepted as a good idea, I further pointed out that Bad Dog Burls has contributed to the bash (supported) every year. I suggested that Jerry would likely approach them, if I asked him and there was no dissension, thus it happened.

When I approached Jerry, I suggested that this would be a good way for Bad Dog Burls to get their name "out there". So, it is not surprising that Jerry felt justified (and I believe Jeff's comments above ratify the concept) that Bad Dog COULD be mentioned as the donor, including a link. (Since MANY members have links in their signatures, for no apparent sponsorships, seems kind of arbitrary to call THIS connection a sponsorship).

In any event, this contest was mentioned SEVERAL times in the planning weeks. I referred to the prior contest that was similar in nature, in 2009---the wood all came from the gentleman that was selling Chinese wood, on that occasion- I was unaware of any restrictions, and I still am unaware of any written policies forbidding ANY of the actions that have taken place.

So, if there are such "unwritten rules", whoever guards them should be more vigilant in the planning stages to be certain there are no plans that "violate" these rules.

In the alternative, maybe the rules in question should be written, so we could all share the wisdom they undoubtedly would bestow upon us.

Meantime, even if it is a sponsorship (which is still up for debate), there are no written policies forbidding that. So, it should be allowed this year and debated after the bash.

And, several times Curtis has clearly stated it is NOT his intention to "forbid" it, so it need not be censored.
 
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