No more ivory

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dgscott

dgscott

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Just received the following from elephantivorytusks.com about the sale of pre-ban ivory. If you have a stash and use it, take note...

This is for all our Ivory Buyers and friends out there....

Well, they did it! A new regulation for a ban on commercial trade of elephant ivory!

White House Press release:
"Today we are also announcing a ban on the commercial trade of elephant ivory"

Here's the news and our opinion:
New Pre Ban Ivory Regulations Spell Disaster

Well, it's been real gang but it sure does look like they mean business. This may put the kibosh on all ivory products except antique ivory. According to this document, you cannot sell anything containing ivory between states. So, if you have an ivory pool cue, knife, gun, etc in Florida it has to remain in Florida, forever! You can sell pre ban ivory within each state and that's it. In-other-words you can buy & sell within your own state as long as it is pre ban (June 1989) Ivory.
 
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So, if you want to sell to somebody in a different state, you have to move to that state first. Then, you can sell within that state? How long do you have to be in a state to establish residency?

If you own property in more than one state, can you sell in each of those or do you have to live in a state more then 51% of the year in order to be allowed to sell within that state?

Lots of old, high-end woodworking tools contained ivory (including rulers which are popular amongst collectors with too much spare money). So, this is going to mess up lots of things…it's a great goal, but the implementation is riddled with holes…I'm glad I never took a liking to ivory!
 
Guess I will have a few very fancy pens I no longer have to worry about selling.

Do I have to ask for id when I sell one or can I assume we live in the same state?
 
TimS124 said:
So, if you want to sell to somebody in a different state, you have to move to that state first. Then, you can sell within that state? How long do you have to be in a state to establish residency?

If you own property in more than one state, can you sell in each of those or do you have to live in a state more then 51% of the year in order to be allowed to sell within that state?

Lots of old, high-end woodworking tools contained ivory (including rulers which are popular amongst collectors with too much spare money). So, this is going to mess up lots of things…it's a great goal, but the implementation is riddled with holes…I'm glad I never took a liking to ivory!
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You will have to live in a state more than 50% of the time in order to establish residency for tax purposes. However some states have a much shorter time limit for state residency to receive aid or welfare. Wisconsin is know as the welfair state because of our lax laws. ED will have to answer the question of owning property in more that one state and being able to sell in each state. He is more up to date on the new laws than I am. Being an antique tool collector, I have many objects that are made, or inlaid with Ivory. Hand planes, knives, rulers, and tool handles to mention a few. Real antique tools will be 100 to 200+ years old and the good ones are usualy stamped with the makers name and place he worked in. This can be traced back to the world wide registry and will tell you where and when they worked. Any items I have purchased over the years that are made of Ivory or are inlaid with Ivory, I have kept the sales slips for. This doesn't prove age or origen, but gives me a name to go back on should question arise. I agree with you about the implementation of these laws. They remind me of the gun laws passed by our Government. You may have to run a backround check before selling a pen to a stranger!! The criminals don't care about the laws and the rest of us are restricted in our choise of arms. Jim S
 
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I think most is getting hung up on the instate issue. The focus *SHOULD* be on this sentence.


Sales within a state will be prohibited unless the seller can demonstrate an item was lawfully imported before 1990 for African elephants and 1975 for Asian elephants.
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Burden of proof has been removed from the gov and placed onto the seller.

The biggest change will be that law enforcement will no longer have to prove that ivory it seized was illicitly acquired. Owners now have the burden of proof to show they legally obtained it. If they imported it before 1990, for example, they will need to produce export permits from the country of origin and a U.S. import permit.
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Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution, A.K.A. commerce clause, allows these draconic changes to take place.
 
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As a collector, Jim is probably fairly typical and has kept records. But the dealers he potentially buys from often scour estate sales and other sources that aren't likely to have good records…. The change in the law will end up having a musical-chairs effect…who ever was last holding something without sufficient documentation is stuck with it (well, they can give it away since apparently only "selling" is prohibited).

I'm certain the changes were well-intentioned and I'm in favor of finding a way to stop the poaching! But I don't think this will achieve that goal.

This sounds more like a TSA-style overreaction will no doubt be coming. Targeting items that clearly aren't part of the problem, but are easy victories for enforcement.
 
Just remember Martian Guitars fun with the feds about wood that they claim was illegal. After millions of dollars for lawyers and damage to business. The feds gave some of the wood back!
I know of one customs agent that was so rabid about the ivory a number of years ago a player piano/organ collector moved from the US to Canada. The Custom agent destroyed every antique at the crossing in the semi moving van, by burning the ivory off the key boards. After a protracted legal battle. She was told not to do it again! The collector was told you have the deepest apology of the US Government.(just happened to have a propane hand torch and bottles for just the job)

It will be street level enforcement, and probably destroy on the spot! This will not stop poaching as it hasn't stop liquor,drugs or the worlds oldest profession which they have been trying to prohibit for over 2,000 years!

Just a sad but true fact, till the countries were the poaching originates, does more to stop it.
:clown:
 
It will be street level enforcement said:
Curious how you compare human addiction and prostitution to the slaughter of animals for just a couple of parts of them that will be used for human trinkets. Not sure how that equates, but those that don't feel compassion for the elimination of defenseless animals struggle to find a comparison I guess. The idea that you let a crime of nature continue because you don't think any methods will stop it, makes no sense to me. We need to eliminate the marketing of wild animal parts for human amusement.
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