nibs and sections

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scubaman

scubaman

Passed Away Jun 20, 2018
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Originally posted by Texatdurango

I think since the flats of the male threads are shallow, a slightly smaller drill can be used that what is normally recommended with the 10x1 tap. I tried Letter "S", 11/32 and letter "R" before settling on the letter "Q" which still allows the nib to easily screw in but not near the slop as with the 9mm.

I am not recommending this to anyone, simply stating that it works for me. I also like using the Berea nib holder because of the simple black holder which can easily be turned down to cover with a matching acrylic piece to match the pen. I've used a few CSUSA nib holders but the problem I have encountered is that in order to get the larger holder, you have to order a complete kit, which I don't want to do.

George
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Firgure this should have a different thread since it's getting a little far from Joe's group purchase

I understand the reasons for the El Grande section. I guess I was not very clear in what I was proposing. I don't mean buy a Gentleman kit just for the nib. I like the Berea nib myself! But if the fit of the "M10x1" bothers you, or you'd want to improve on it - why not make the complete section out of the material of your choice, and use a screw-in nib/feed assembly - just as used in the Gentleman? So you need to cut the M10x1 male thread - you can get a die, won't cost a lot. Then you have to drill the section and/or bore it and form an interior thread for a screw-in nib assembly. I know some people here order from Schmidt, I have in the past and have a stash of Schmidt nibs. These have an M6.5x0.5 tap. You can get one made e.g. at etaps - single lead is not all that expensive. The Bock-type nibs use a different thread. It's something like M7.5x0.5 but I am not completely sure. So you could use the ones Anthony sells. Or... all of Anthony's customers have a stack of CSU feed/nib assemblies I'm sure. Who would throw that stuff out? I know I have them!

This is all best done on a metal lathe, of course, but I bet if you're clever about it you can do it on a wood lathe also
 
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As we venture down this new path together, I think we are going to also find that different materials respond differently to these taps. Here's one I drilled (Churchill nib) with a 21/64 bit and tapped with 10mmx1mm tap in ebonite. This one is a tight fit. Some of this may have to do with material, some with drill bit run out, etc. With all the new tappers coming aboard I'm looking forward to some interesting designs.


20083312289_Tapped%20Nib%20Holder.jpg
 
I am glad our discussion has taken this direction because I just learned something which has been an obstacle to me!

Your comment “why not make the complete section out of the material of your choice, and use a screw-in nib/feed assembly - just as used in the Gentleman?†got me to thinking once again. I had given up on using the Craft Supply large nib holder because I did not know the feed holder unscrewed from the housing so I concentrated on customizing the small size replacement nib holders instead.

I remember seeing Brian’s beautiful ebony nib holders and wondered how he machined the whole holder including the small protrusion that actually fits into the converter or rubber refill. I thought it must be nice having the machinery to make such intricate parts.

“I know some people here order from Schmidt, I have in the past and have a stash of Schmidt nibs.†I didn’t know this either, that is why I commented on buying a whole pen kit just to get the nib housing to modify! Can you buy just the nib feed and its holder or does it come as a 3 piece set complete with a nib?

Rather than tapping the inside of the custom housing with an M6.5x0.5 tap so the feed holder can screw in, do you see any disadvantage to just gluing the piece in?

I think I can make a decent housing on my Jet mini lathe but this is just one more reason for me to buy that metal lathe I’ve been thinking of.

Rich, Thank you for the eye openers and sharing the above information, I don’t feel so much like “chopped liver†anymore!:D
 
Rich

Thanks for the input. I have a design which I hope to work on next week. The first pen will be very crude but will test out my machining skills. Finally getting ready to pull away from the kits. Although the kits will still be part of my inventory only because of the cost of plating. I am working with a company right now that will do platinum plating and the prices right now are out of this world. The only way of bring the prices down is doing batches of 10k. Until I find a source that is reiable and cost effective I will still continue to use some of the kits. I am also work with a jeweler for some of my truely custom pieces but that will not happen until next year. Again cost is a major factor.
 
I think you can use glue - just make sure it holds up under ink exposure :-) What you give up is the ability to change - and most people never knew you could anyway. You can still swap a nib by pulling feed and nib.

Schmidt sells assemblies that look similar to the ones Anthony sells. They do not interchange with the CSU assemblies. Browse their catalog http://www.schmidttechnology.de/en/schreibgeraete/produkte/fuellhaltersysteme/c_1_3_2.htm Be aware that not everything you see there is actually available off-the-rack - some are custom parts which you need toorder 5000 of. They do have minimum order quantities etc, in the past I was able to get some exceptions, but as more and more people from the US got interested they clamped down. However, like I said, there are folks here that deal with Schmidt and may be able to help.

CSU has some Gentleman FP conversions, at $10 each. This is the metal section, nib and feed. Not a catalog item, but available if you ask.

I see a metal lathe in your future. It's not a huge investment initially...
 
Originally posted by BRobbins629

As we venture down this new path together, I think we are going to also find that different materials respond differently to these taps. Here's one I drilled (Churchill nib) with a 21/64 bit and tapped with 10mmx1mm tap in ebonite. This one is a tight fit. Some of this may have to do with material, some with drill bit run out, etc. With all the new tappers coming aboard I'm looking forward to some interesting designs.
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Yeah, I agree! It's interesting how sometimes the 'time is ripe'. I know of several efforts along this line, not just Brian's. It's wonderful to see a new development pop up and getting explored!
 
I have a corporate account with Schmidt and will be glad to place any specific inquiries folks might have. Please do your research first on their website such that I do not inundate my sales rep with highly generic questions.
 
I see a metal lathe next year. The one I want is not cheap but over the long run it is much cheaper then buying a small HF and then upgrading later. Again that is next year. Lou you and I will talking very soon. You have been a great supplier and a good friend.
 
Lou, When I figure out exactly what I need, I'll take you up on your offer.

Looks as if what I have been calling a "nib feed holder housing" is referred to by Schmidt as a "gripper jacket"! I think I'll go out and see if I can make a gripper jacket this afternoon.

Wish me luck!
 
If you guys are interested in my humblest of two cents, I would say to stay away from taps and dies.

It is definitely tougher to do internal threads, quad lead theads, etc manually on the lathe. I've accomplished quad lead threads manually with mathematics and geometry, and I'm about to mate a cap to them. It's not easy to get the first time, but once you get the skill down, it's easy to repeat.

Taps and dies wear out. Custom quad lead taps and dies are more than $200. If you go through four of these, you've equaled the priced of a decent 9" lathe. If you want to make two different designs, then tack on more $$$ for each diameter.

By cutting them manually, you are not limited to one diameter, and a specific number of leads. You can literally make any pen that you can draw on paper.

As far as gluing in the housings go, I have no real problem with gluing them in, but honestly....it's really not tough to thread them internally.

The threads on the housings that I use are .6mm. The depth of this thread is so fine that it's literally one scratch and you have the threads cut. You need a TEEENY internal thread tool, but MSC carries them. There's very little difference in the time involved to glue in a housing, than there is to thread it.

I just see a lot of money going into taps and dies, and I'm not sure if it's the best way. A metal lathe is an expensive endeavor, but I think that it's the best way to get away from kits.

It's a really tough hurdle to cross the first time, but once you get it, it is easily repeatable. The toughest part is cutting quad lead threads and then mating a cap to them. Something that I'm still ironing out. But once I do, the sky is the limit.

And this is only my humble two cents...not trying to start a flame here.

And Lou, thanks for the Schmidt offer. I didn't realize that you had such outstanding connections and relationships in the pen world. I may just take you up on that one.
 
Brian
I agree with you about the cost of taps and dies but what to experiment before out laying any more money into more equipment. Once you step away from the kit pens the retail price per pen usually jobs ups. I just what to make sure that there is truly a market out there for that type of price job. Once I am convinced that there is a market out there I have no problem in investing more money into the business.

One thing that has been overlooked with the tap and dies is you can not just run the lathe you must manually turn the spindle otherwise the blank will be distoried. Also look at MSC Direct for a die holder for about 28.00. Get the 1" OD one not the 13/16".

Still if this is the direction my business is going I see a metal lathe in the future, but I want one that will last the test of time not just another tool.
 
True, Alan.

And in all honesty, if someone's purpose is to make 50 or so pens of one design, then a tap and die is fine. Long term though, I say lathe.

My humble two cents.
 
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