Nib feeds and sections

[Hippie3180]

I’m curious a to know if there are small tolerances from nib feed to nib feed within the same size nib like Jowo #6. Is it possible the shape of the feed is slightly irregular?

I’ve noticed that sometimes a nib will fit more snuggly than others even though my process, drill bits size, tap has not changed.

Are some materials such as ebonite prone to a more snug fitting feed for some reason as opposed to Alumilite?

 

[rherrell]

Drill bits are not "precision" tools, you are correct, the material has a lot to do with how a drill bit performs. In my experience softer materials tend to drill undersize, I suspect that the soft material kind of "collapses" when the bit is removed but that's just speculation on my part.

 

[dogcatcher]

For extra accuracy in drilling, drill slightly a undersized hole, then use a reamer of the correct size. If drilling wood, I was taught to drill, then wait a day and then use the reamer. The heat caused by drilling in wood changes the actual hole size. Releasing internal wood pressures while drilling also influences the actual hole size.

 

[Hippie3180]

Drill bits are not "precision" tools, you are correct, the material has a lot to do with how a drill bit performs. In my experience softer materials tend to drill undersize, I suspect that the soft material kind of "collapses" when the bit is removed but that's just speculation on my part.

This would make sense. I notice that initially Alumilite threads seem tight right after, but given time to replace they seem to work much better.

Ebonite which seems even softer seems to be even more tight right after, with the same process.

 

[Hippie3180]

For extra accuracy in drilling, drill slightly a undersized hole, then use a reamer of the correct size. If drilling wood, I was taught to drill, then wait a day and then use the reamer. The heat caused by drilling in wood changes the actual hole size. Releasing internal wood pressures while drilling also influences the actual hole size.

I think this is true, the heat causes almost all materials to contract, some relax afterwards better than others.

 

[Monty]

I think this is true, the heat causes almost all materials to contract, some relax afterwards better than others.

Not to be picky but heat causes material to expand, cold causes contraction.

 

[Hippie3180]

Not to be picky but heat causes material to expand, cold causes contraction.

Whoops! You’re right, my bad.

 

[duncsuss]

Not to be picky but heat causes material to expand, cold causes contraction.

In general this is true - but more significant when drilling and tapping nib sections to receive the nib & feed housings is that heat can also cause materials to soften.

As Rick suggested, drilling through soft "rubbery" materials (which push out of the way then spring back after the cutting edge has passed by) results in a slightly smaller hole than in a stiffer one.

I typically use a drill bit one letter size larger when drilling in ebonite compared to acetates (as in, I might use letter "I" drill in alumilite but substitute letter "J" drill in ebonite) because I found the nib units would stick in the section. I damaged a number of nib/feed housings because the only way I could get them out was to jam a flat blade screwdriver into them.

 

[Hippie3180]

In general this is true - but more significant when drilling and tapping nib sections to receive the nib & feed housings is that heat can also cause materials to soften.

As Rick suggested, drilling through soft "rubbery" materials (which push out of the way then spring back after the cutting edge has passed by) results in a slightly smaller hole than in a stiffer one.

I typically use a drill bit one letter size larger when drilling in ebonite compared to acetates (as in, I might use letter "I" drill in alumilite but substitute letter "J" drill in ebonite) because I found the nib units would stick in the section. I damaged a number of nib/feed housings because the only way I could get them out was to jam a flat blade screwdriver into them.

I probably need to get a “j” drill bit for ebonite, it seems to be a bit of a problem. I’m pretty sure what you are describing is the issue.

 

[jrista]

I probably need to get a “j” drill bit for ebonite, it seems to be a bit of a problem. I’m pretty sure what you are describing is the issue.

Check out Harbor Freight. They have a 115 cobalt drill bit set for $119, which includes the entire alphabet, imperial in 64ths up through 1/2", and 60 wire gauges. This was one of the best purchases I've ever made. Never having to worry about finding the right bit, and them being cobalt (the edge lasts practically forever) has been so nice.

 

[d_bondi]

I'll start off with I am new here, AND I have only made 2 kitless pens so far (with another 5 in various stages). Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have been using 9/32" which is about the same as a letter "K" bit, and I am getting good threads for my Jowo #6 nib. It never feels too snug and I have done multiple in Alumilite and one in ebonite. They also don't feel lose in the section.

I second @jrista comment on the HF bit set. I picked it up earlier this year and the drill bits have been just fine. The case is another story, but as long as you are gentle with it, it will do its job.

 

[jalbert]

I'll start off with I am new here, AND I have only made 2 kitless pens so far (with another 5 in various stages). Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have been using 9/32" which is about the same as a letter "K" bit, and I am getting good threads for my Jowo #6 nib. It never feels too snug and I have done multiple in Alumilite and one in ebonite. They also don't feel lose in the section.

This.

 

[rixstix]

Here's a vote for NOT buying the HF drill index. Bent and out of round.. Some are obviously wobbling in the drill press. Others only show up when drilling using the lathe. Buy a higher quality set and the problem goes away.

 

[duncsuss]

Here's a vote for NOT buying the HF drill index. Bent and out of round.. Some are obviously wobbling in the drill press. Others only show up when drilling using the lathe. Buy a higher quality set and the problem goes away.

I took advantage of a sale at Grizzly tools to buy their cobalt steel 115 piece set -I've found it to be vastly better than the HarborFright set that I started with.

 

[Monty]

Here's a vote for NOT buying the HF drill index. Bent and out of round.. Some are obviously wobbling in the drill press. Others only show up when drilling using the lathe. Buy a higher quality set and the problem goes away.

I’ve had my set of HF 115 titanium nitride bits for probably over 10 years and the only problem I’ve ever encountered with them is loosing a few or breaking the small ones.

 

[Aurelius]

One thing to keep in mind is the Jowo sections are not machined but are molded. This means that as the molds wear, the fit can be affected. Also, if there is any issue with the molding process, slight mold misalignment, etc., the fit will be affected.

 

[Hippie3180]

One thing to keep in mind is the Jowo sections are not machined but are molded. This means that as the molds wear, the fit can be affected. Also, if there is any issue with the molding process, slight mold misalignment, etc., the fit will be affected.

I’ve heard they can have figment issues + cracking/breaking. Such a bummer since I’m set up for them. I don’t think this has anything to do with my tight nib issues, unless there is some irregularity in terms of fitment.

I may consider converting over to Bock, I’ve heard good things. I’m just not sure how much that would change up my process.

 

[Hippie3180]

I'll start off with I am new here, AND I have only made 2 kitless pens so far (with another 5 in various stages). Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have been using 9/32" which is about the same as a letter "K" bit, and I am getting good threads for my Jowo #6 nib. It never feels too snug and I have done multiple in Alumilite and one in ebonite. They also don't feel lose in the section.

I second @jrista comment on the HF bit set. I picked it up earlier this year and the drill bits have been just fine. The case is another story, but as long as you are gentle with it, it will do its job.

I’m not sure I can do this, I’m thinking the wall on the section that threads into the body won’t tolerate a k bit. I wonder if I just don’t drill all the way through if I could get away with the k?

 

[d_bondi]

I have been drilling all the way through with the 9/32". Yes, that point where the tenon of the section meets the larger diameter of the section is the weakest point of the section and I have had a few fail, but I think that is because I have cut too deep a relief. What bit are you using now? It looks like others are using a "J" bit, maybe that would work for you.

I'm seriously thinking of ordering one of Rick Herrell's Jowo #6 bits, and is 0.272" in the part we thread. That is the same an "I" bit. Another point toward giving the "J" a try.

I have absolutely noted the heat issue mentioned by others. So, keeping things cool as possible while drilling and then after they sit a while, checking again, isn't a bad idea.

 

[jrista]

Not to be picky but heat causes material to expand, cold causes contraction.

Well, expand yes, but consider the nature of a hole. The material around the hole expands, thus the hole itself contracts. When you start to hear the "screech" of a drill bit? The bit is expanding, the hole is shrinking, and the two are in tighter contact with each other. Depending on how you are thinking about it, "contract" might be the correct word. ;P

 

[duncsuss]

The material around the hole expands, thus the hole itself contracts.

The material around the hole expands, but the hole does not contract.

Think about it: if what you say is true, then a plug the exact shape as the inside would have to shrink as the outside material expands (or the housing would explode). This doesn't happen - and in fact the opposite happens, the plug expands and the size of the hole the plug fits into also expands.

 

[jrista]

The material around the hole expands, but the hole does not contract.

Think about it: if what you say is true, then a plug the exact shape as the inside would have to shrink as the outside material expands (or the housing would explode). This doesn't happen - and in fact the opposite happens, the plug expands and the size of the hole the plug fits into also expands.

My experience has been that right after drilling, the hole sometimes might not quite fit a tube (for a pen that uses brass tubes). Once cooled, though, the tube fits just fine.

The entire blank doesn't heat up. The part that is experiencing friction with the bit heats up. Where is it going to go, when it expands? All outward? No, it'll expand into the available space...

 

[Hippie3180]

I have been drilling all the way through with the 9/32". Yes, that point where the tenon of the section meets the larger diameter of the section is the weakest point of the section and I have had a few fail, but I think that is because I have cut too deep a relief. What bit are you using now? It looks like others are using a "J" bit, maybe that would work for you.

I'm seriously thinking of ordering one of Rick Herrell's Jowo #6 bits, and is 0.272" in the part we thread. That is the same an "I" bit. Another point toward giving the "J" a try.

I have absolutely noted the heat issue mentioned by others. So, keeping things cool as possible while drilling and then after they sit a while, checking again, isn't a bad idea.

I’m currently using an “i” bit. I’ve eliminated the relief due to several failures, instead I chamfer my body threads to accept the section and it’s been working very well. I may be able to go up just a bit to a “j”. I’ve also found that very lightly(barely taking the majors down) sanding my section threads helps with fitment.