New Tool review

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txcwboy

txcwboy

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Melissa, TX, USA.
I bought one of the new KRYO 3/8 INCH PEN SPINDLE GOUGE from Henry Taylor . I have been using a 3/4( or 1 inch) inch shallow gouge from Crown to do most of my work. First impressions of the new tool is when you rest your thumb on top edge of gouge like you would normally hold it against the rest, its seems sharp and thin to me. It is very sharp and seems to GRAB easy near the ends of your work RIPPING the wood out in chunks.2 uses so far and both times it tore the ends out and I had to do some CA gluing to cover it up.NOT REAL impressed so far.It just seems TOO AGGRESSIVE for me.You have to keep rest real close also due to the gouge is so small and will easily be pulled in between.I ll stick to the larger tools. comments welcome.

Dave



2006121641238_gouges.jpg
 
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Hmmm...I'll probably get told how wrong I am, but I think the problem lies in the intended use of the tool. It appears to be a BOWL gouge wwith a bowl gouge grind. (The solid shank is usually a dead giveaway.) That being the case, I haven't seen many bowl turners use their gouge with the thumb between tne edges of the flute. The fingernail grind doesn't really allow for that.
 
Ok Lou consider yourself being told you're wrong. Both spindle gouges and bowl gouges usually have a solid round shank. Sorry Dave but I think your technique is most likely the problem. It is at this point I will be told I am wrong. "Could be".... All tools should be used close to the turned piece. Depends on what you mean by real close. The flute usually points in the direction of travel, that would keep your fingers away from the edge of the flute and might be more comfortable. If you were located nearby I would be glad to do some hands on help as I have with other club members. I find giving advice online like this may or may not help. If you have a local club where you can get some hands on I would advise that. Good luck.
 
And i'll chime in with my opinion (we have 3 posts? shouldn't there be 4 opinions? maybe i'll come up with another while i type ... ) :P

1 - I doubt the kryo is at fault here. The type of steel really won't affect the "grabby" behavior you describe. What interests me is how's it grind? How long does the edge hold up? Those are questions that you may be able to answer if we can get past the next two :D

2 - Is this the first time using a fingernail ground spindle gouge? If so, it probably has more to do with technique than anything else. Please don't take this as criticism, it's just an experience thing. There is a bit of a knack to using a spindle gouge. It's not very often that the tool is used with the flutes laying horizontal. These types of gouges are almost always held at some angle to both the tool rest and level (left/right and up/down). Also, the flutes are usually sideways in some manner - you do cut with the point, but more or less one side of the very tip than the other.

And finally ...

3 - The grind has EVERYTHING to do with a spindle gouge being grabby. At what angle is the tip ground? I've found that a very shallow angle (long bevel) is really grabby. If the bevel angle is high (short bevel, almost stubby lookin), it's much easier to get experience with. Beginners tend to work well with say something in the 60 degree and higher range where experts may tend to float around the 45-50 degree area. Having a higher angle in this case makes rubbing the bevel MUCH easier and less on the tipping point between cutting and catching. First try working on your technique for a bit - practice on some scrap for awhile. If that doesn't work, consider changing the grind (then you can answer my questions in #1! :P)


The tool rest should always be as close as possible to the work when using any tools, by the way. It does take a little getting used to, if you've been turning awhile with it further away. But you'll ultimately end up with better control, fewer bumpy cuts and a smoother flow of motion in the end. The idea is to use the toolrest like the fulcrum of a lever. The closer to the work you have it, the more movement it takes at the handle end to move the tip and that tends to result in a smoother cut - especially for us folks with very unsteady hands :D

It's gonna take some getting used to, for sure. Stick with it and you might be persuaded to change your initial opinion of the tool :)
 
After a second look - it may not actually BE fingernail ground - it could still be a standard grind. I have never liked my spindle gouges to be standard ground. I actually found them to be MUCH less grabby with a fingernail grind, myself.
 
Without seeing the flutes from the end, I can't tell if it is a bowl or spindle gouge. My first impression was bowl. But, even that aside, I agree it is way too small for most work. I use relatively large gouges and skews for pens, 1".
 
Its designed for Pens whatever the grind.:) Ok so I am confused LOL with some many "I may be wrongs" LOL SO I am NOT suppose to use the tip on it to cut with ? Use the side ? Or am I using it upside down ? I normally start with the rest almost hitting as I break the edges but then as it gets trued I move it to closer but with the thicker gouge like I used to use you can get away with it not being RIGHT on it all the time. You cant with the little one.I have been turning awhile (18 yrs) but no formal instructions and mainly done pens. Does this help?

Dave


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I just want to say up front that I meant no disrespect. My first impression was less experience and I obviously misinterpreted that. The issues you described seem (to me) like a grind issue over the kryo. I had hoped to dispell the kryo part as being the cause of the problems. I'd also hoped to help explain what I thought may be the cause of the behavior that was described but I think I may have come off condescending by mistake. For that, I apologize.

Well that sure is a fingernail grind, alright. The angle of that grind makes me think grabby, but hey ... I could be wrong! :P

It just looks really low to me - maybe I have been doin' it wrong all along! :P

I'd try to change that bevel angle to something closer to 60 degrees and maybe sweep the ears back a little further. But that's me. Everyone has their personal preference.

As to using the point vs. using the side. I may not have said it concisely - I use the tip, but i'm always slightly to the right or left, never straight on. And if the flutes are sideways a little (anywhere form 5-10 degrees to almost vertical) it tends to give me a little more control over the agressiveness. At least that's how it works for me.

With that shallow bevel angle, I'd have trouble rubbing the bevel without it being grabby I think.

Anyway - thanks for providing your view of the tool. I forgot to say that when I posted last night. It's always good to hear another turner's experience :)
 
Suggestion: sharpen the tool. If the pictures reflect what you turned with - I am looking at a coarsely groud tool, not a sharp one. Sharp is VERY different from ground. This is the manufacturer's grind? Turning tools are not meant to be used straight out of the box...
 
I second a lot of what Beamer says. The angle on the nose seems quite acute leading to grabiness. An angle of about 40 degrees (depends on how each of us measure)could be tried. I think the shape of the grind looks good to me. I won't say you shouldn't cut with the tip, but I don't. If I am cutting to the right I am cutting just to the right of center. If cutting to the left I cut left of center. I believe this gives you more of a slicing cut, meaning smoother. You've been turning for 18 years. Do you have other spindle gouges you like?

Nice pictures. I need to learn how to post pictures.
 
I havent sharpened it. It was "thumbnail sticking" sharp out of the box.I also toy around with knifemaking so I know some about sharp [:D] I havent used a spindle gouge that I know of. I used the other one in the pic for last several years.I just figured if they were marketing these toys towards Us penmakers, they knew what angles and sizes worked best. OH btw , no offense was taken beamer.

Dave
 
The first thing I see in the grind is a drop in the edge right behind the tip. That's usually a no, no, makes it grabby. You want a nice curve from the tip to the end. Also it looks to me from the photo like it was ground on a course wheel. For small tools I like a 120 grit on a 1750rpm grinder or 100 grit on a 3400.
 
I was just looking for something that was higher tech steel and maybe held a edge longer. Wonder if I can return it ? [:D] Or just learn how to use it [:p]

Dave
 
Hi Dave,
Maybe run up to McKinney and show it to RonMc, let him try using it.

Or, I'll be in Plano for a couple days later this week. I'd enjoy meeting you and seeing your work with knives. I also make a few. Send me an email if you'd like a visit.

Looking at the pictures, I think it needs to be sharpened. The edge looks like it's just too rough.

Happy holidays,
txbob
 
Hey Dave,

I use a the same style fingernail spindle gouge for my blank rough turning. Mine is a crown HSS, but the angle and bevel appear to be the same.

Let me start off by saying that thing isn't sharpened properly. Tools are rough ground from teh factory. Many people are unaware of this and I'll admit that I wasn't for quite a while. It may feel sharp, but it has not been "honed". That being said, I think your technique might be the issue. If this tool is used straight at the piece like a scraper it has the tendancy to grab and and violently dig into the stock.

I use thie tool on an angle to the piece. When cutting from left to right on the blank, I am cutting with the right side of the flute. From the right to left. and use the left side of the flute. It works extremly well at slicing through a squared edge down to round. Once round, I switch to my Skew or Round nosed scraper depedning on the stock.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and allowing us to learn from your frustations.

Cheers,

Fangar
 
I tried it again and pretty much used that motion Fangar mentioned AFTER honing it some. I know that in the knife world there is 2 thoughts on sharpness. One is the polished edge VS the micro serations of the honed but not polished edge. I can see that the polished edge would be more on the line of what we would use.

Bob I moved up to Melissa now but thats just a stones throw.OH Btw ist N5SNB :)
thanks for all the helpful info.
Dave
 
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