more proof that CA is ruled by a fickle and vengeful goddess

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MyDadsPens

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Joined
Nov 10, 2019
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59
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Corning, New York
Here is an interesting situation. I have been using blue original scott towels to apply CA for over a year. I took 90% of a roll and one day cut them all up into strips - I then put these strips into 2 Tupperware type plastic containers and I have used them for the last 16 months. I tested the towels when I first bought them by putting a bunch of CA on and just waiting for 30 seconds to see if it started smoking - the towels passed no issues - and no issues for 16 months
The other day they all started smoking within 5-10 seconds of getting the CA - and very hot to the touch
my first instinct was the CA, it was 5-6 months old - but I got the same results with 2 new bottles of CA
the package of blue towels I had was a double pack so I tried the new roll --- No smoking or heat

is it possible the blue towels sat in the plastic container for so long they absorbed something from the plastic that is reacting with the CA ?
Or do you think the CA goddess was sleeping and realized she let me finish 3 pens in a row without CA problems - so in her groggy state she just throw this problem out there ?
 
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magpens

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I doubt very much that the goddess has any questionable motives for persecuting you in particular.

In fact I am quite sure that she treats us all alike.

But with every wave of newbies beginning this hobby some of her attention shifts to them, and there are a few of us who mercifully fall off her persecution list and who, forever after, are then free from further persecution. . She has limited time and energy and so can only persecute a given number of pen turners, the identity of whom is constantly changing due to her special attraction to the newbies. . Eventually, we all slide through to eternal bliss in CA heaven.

And I think she may play tricks on the production lines for the blue shop towels as well, and I don't have that part of the mythological saga so well worked-out. . Let's just say, "that too shall pass", whatever "that" is, and you will be home free !

So just keep at it and pray that one day ... soon ... you too shall join the ranks of the blessed.

Now for the practical advice. ....

You say that you cut your blue shop towels into strips. . I do that too, but I make a bit of a ritual out of it which may have pleased the goddess a little.

I measure the widths of my strips, to keep them consistent, draw lines, and cut on every other line so that I can fold, thus doubling the thickness. . But before I fold, I lay down a strip of Scotch tape on EVERY strip along its full length. . I THEN fold, and cut the strips into working lengths of about 3 inches. . These working lengths have a double thickness of Scotch tape sandwiched between a single thickness of blue towel on each side.

My reason for adding the Scotch tape is that without it the CA very quickly soaks through and adheres to my fingers. . The Scotch tape helps to prevent that happening so quickly, altho' it does still happen to a lesser degree.

Obviously, I make the blue towel strips of a width which is approximately equal to the width of the Scotch tape, and that width is about 1 inch.

Yes ... making up these strips of blue towel with the Scotch tape layers does take a bit of time, but I think it's worth it.

Give it a try on a few strips ... perhaps the goddess will be pleased ... or appeased, whatever that might mean.

Eventually, you'll get to where you want to be, and you will not very often look back to the trials and tribulations of getting there.

Good luck ! . Stay healthy ! (I speculate that the corona virus is repulsed by CA.) . And keep smiling !
 

Lmstretch

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Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
184
Location
Fl
I too use the blue shop towels when applying ca. I use Mercury Flex and the pump spray accelerator and have no issues with it smoking. However I decided to buy the aerosol accelerator instead of the pump spray. Wow! Not only I had issues with it smoking, I had the blue towel fuse to my finger, ouch!

Needless to say, I am back using the pump spray accelerator.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

howsitwork

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Jul 9, 2016
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Thirsk
Although cutting into strips saves time it also increases the surface area exposed to absorb moisture. Even packed in plastic container everytime you open it there will be some air moisture absorbed until " Houston, we have a problem ".

Thats my best guess as to the issue.

I like the idea of the scotch tape to reduce finger adhesion. I have tried using plastic to apply eg tip of my vinyl glove and that works but I am having issues with streaking ( the CA not me personally , too draughty over here for that sort of thing and frostbite is a constant worry they say šŸ¤£) on the blanks.

Then when I sand I'm wearing through in places. Mind you I am using very open grain timber & resin blanks so need to pore fill with thick CA. Any brand of accelerator people find working well please? I have had whiteness when using it so don't tend to use it.
 

Bryguy

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Jun 9, 2013
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Location
New Hampshire
Having glued hot paper to my fingers one too many times. I now use the tiny plastic baggies that kit parts come in on the end of my fingers. It is a lot less painful and much faster to whip off the plastic baggie than to remove rubber gloves or worse. adhered smoking paper towel.
 

jttheclockman

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Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,084
Location
NJ, USA.
Never had a problem with a CA finish from the very first time I used it back over 12 years ago. I have laid out my method and stated my use of Satelite City CA glues and maybe I am lucky but just can not see why there would be problems. Maybe temp conditions are a problem but if you ever did any type of finishing in your life you know there are limits and usually stated on the can. I use the blue shop towels to apply also and am aware of possible sticking to fingers but over the years you learn these things and these questions get asked a million times on here. Hope you figure out the problem and overcome and maybe your tip will help others as they too may face this. Good luck. Oh by the way I cut the fingers of a nitrile glove and it gives me 5 protective pieces as apposed to scotch tape. Just my tip.
 

pshrynk

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Dec 6, 2017
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Location
Lake City, Minnesota
Just for information: The "smoking" you see is the glue heating up so rapidly that it causes any residual moisture in the towel to vaporize. Not active steam, but the same product - high level of water vapor. It looks like smoke but isn't catching on fire. Otherwise there'd be a lot of threads labeled "(&^(%$*(! CA caused a shop fire!"
 

TonyL

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Mar 9, 2014
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I cut the fingers of a nitrile glove and it gives me 5 protective pieces as apposed to scotch tape. Just my tip.

I like that idea. Thanks!
 

WriteON

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Aug 21, 2013
Messages
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Location
S. Florida
I have a nitrile glove thumb tip and finger tip CA'd to my right hand. My finger prints are on a milk carton somewhere.
 

MyDadsPens

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Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
59
Location
Corning, New York
I wish I could chalk up CA issues to being a "newbie" But I have been a cabinet maker for 30 years and been doing hundreds of pens and lathe projects for the last 5 years. In my cabinet shop I was used to 90% success rates finishing - but when I started doing CA lathe pens a few years ago the 50% success rate ticked me off - so for a year or so I did lacquer on pens and was back to 90+ success rate but lacquer is expensive and needs a week plus to cure hard enough for wet sanding/buffing so I went back to CA 2 years ago. now I would say my CA success rate has improved to 70% BUT when the failures happen it still ticks me off, especially when some of the issues seem so random like smoking paper towels from a batch that had never done that before
humidity is interesting idea BUT the other container stored in same environment didn't do it
Plus I was told several years ago the CA smoke test was to determine if the Paper towel had cotton in it - so it seemed like a group of my towels suddenly grew cotton :)
I get all of my CA from a brick and mortar Hobby Lobby- I was told by a solid lathe guy it was a quality Bob Smith CA, But when I tried to confirm that it seems hobby lobby epoxy is Bob Smith brand but not their CA - so not sure what brand it actually is
For the last 2 years all my lathe work and CA finishing is on an open air porch - so I am sure wind and weather can affect things BUT in my defense I do think there is ample proof the goddess of CA is trying to force me back to lacquer for example: I had a brand new bottle of CA that would not cure even with Accelerator, A bottle of Stick Fast brand CA that dried sticky no matter what (a piece of wood treated with that is still tacky after 2 years), a bottle of medium CA that somehow dissolved part of its green cap and tinted the CA yellow green (did make for a few girly pens with green tinted swirls :) ) and my favorite episode was using medium CA once helping my Girlfriend do a pen, she applied a glop and rubbed it on like I showed her - but she rubbed it up and down the pen blank 4 or 5 times - I told her "NO it's super glue it dries fast you do 1 trip up the blank and 1 trip down the blank at a brisk pace like this --and 2 seconds into my demonstration the glue dries and rips the towel out of my hand - after she rubbed the dang thing on the upper blank for what seemed like 6 weeks :mad:
CA to me is like an addiction - can't walk away from it and every 4th or 5th pen it reminds me why addictions are bad
 

magpens

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Feb 2, 2011
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@MyDadsPens
There is no doubt in my mind that I feel your pain ... and the internet in this time of CV is causing me more great pain so I have to keep this brief.
I have used Super Thin CA ... all my life ! ... Bob Smith Industries BSI-102C. . It has not always gone right, but the causes of a "bad experience" have never been clear to me. Plus, I have never read anything on IAP or anywhere else that helps explain why "bad" happens to anyone, in spite of there having been zillions of reports of "bad" and zillions of appeals for help ... with none forthcoming ... ever. . Similarly, the "good" comes without fanfare or explanation. . CA is a witches' brew.

I am sure that somewhere there are scientific explanations for both "bad" and "good" ... they just are not begging to be read and understood.
Hey! ... that rhymes, but that is totally irrelevant.

I, like you, have wide open ears and eyes and would love to understand the behavior of CA.

In the meantime, I am sorry that I cannot be more helpful, less cavalier, and more able to offer the concrete pancea of methods.

For now, CA is working for me but I have no explanation of why or "how to" ... have never seen such coupled with credibility and reliability as well as repeatability.

I can only conclude that there must be circumstantial and environmental variables that very few of us ... if any ... recognize, know about, or are even aware of when they occur.

Feel free to keep in touch, ... PM me if you wish. . We can commiserate , compare notes, perform controlled trials, whatever.

Good luck and please report any successes, preferably with any explanations, hypothetical or otherwise. . I'd love to understand CA also.
 

ramaroodle

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Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
686
Location
Seattle
Switch to GluBoost (which is a form of CA) for all of the reasons mentioned in countless threads here on IAP. It doesn't smoke or frost and I just use plain old Costco paper towels. I make the strips about 8" long after folding them over 3-4 times and just keep tearing off the ends until it's gone.
 

1080Wayne

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Joined
Feb 5, 2006
Messages
3,340
Location
Brownfield, Alberta, Canada.
Here is an interesting situation. I have been using blue original scott towels to apply CA for over a year. I took 90% of a roll and one day cut them all up into strips - I then put these strips into 2 Tupperware type plastic containers and I have used them for the last 16 months. I tested the towels when I first bought them by putting a bunch of CA on and just waiting for 30 seconds to see if it started smoking - the towels passed no issues - and no issues for 16 months
The other day they all started smoking within 5-10 seconds of getting the CA - and very hot to the touch
my first instinct was the CA, it was 5-6 months old - but I got the same results with 2 new bottles of CA
the package of blue towels I had was a double pack so I tried the new roll --- No smoking or heat

is it possible the blue towels sat in the plastic container for so long they absorbed something from the plastic that is reacting with the CA ?
Or do you think the CA goddess was sleeping and realized she let me finish 3 pens in a row without CA problems - so in her groggy state she just throw this problem out there ?

Definitely possible , if the container was new and unwashed . There are two basic ways of making sure the newly formed hot container releases from the mold . The first is incorporation of slip and/or antistatic agents into the polymer via a masterbatch (a concentrate of the additive in some polymer) . These bloom fairly rapidly to the surface of the container . Typical slip agents would be oleamide or erucamide .

The second way is to spray the mold surface with an agent after perhaps every 5 or 10 containers have been made from it . A combination of the two approaches might be required for complex shapes .

I have no idea if those products react with CA , but your experience suggests that they may .
 

MyDadsPens

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
59
Location
Corning, New York
has anyone compared Gluboost to Stickfast ? I have never seen Gluboost in any stores or my woodcraft, But I tried a bottle of Stickfast thin and thick once - i loved the time stickfast gave me to apply it - But I thought it took a lot of Accelerator to cure it and the thick stayed tacky for months even after waiting hours and then wiping it with a wet plastic bag - a local pen guy did tell me he has used stickfast for years and it is great stuff - he thinks the batch I got from woodcraft was maybe old and had been on the shelf a long time. I contacted Stickfast to check the date but they never responded to me

Like magpen said my biggest complaint with CA is just not being able to figure it out or predict it scientifically - lacquer is great, very scientific, apply in even sprays above 65 degrees when the dewpoint is more than 20 degrees below the air temp and humidity below 70 and it will be flawless (or close enough that another spray will cover any blushing etc) CA just feels so much to me like "lets see what happens"
 

ramaroodle

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
686
Location
Seattle
has anyone compared Gluboost to Stickfast ? I have never seen Gluboost in any stores or my woodcraft, But I tried a bottle of Stickfast thin and thick once - i loved the time stickfast gave me to apply it - But I thought it took a lot of Accelerator to cure it and the thick stayed tacky for months even after waiting hours and then wiping it with a wet plastic bag - a local pen guy did tell me he has used stickfast for years and it is great stuff - he thinks the batch I got from woodcraft was maybe old and had been on the shelf a long time. I contacted Stickfast to check the date but they never responded to me

Like magpen said my biggest complaint with CA is just not being able to figure it out or predict it scientifically - lacquer is great, very scientific, apply in even sprays above 65 degrees when the dewpoint is more than 20 degrees below the air temp and humidity below 70 and it will be flawless (or close enough that another spray will cover any blushing etc) CA just feels so much to me like "lets see what happens"

Something is wrong with the Stickfast you had if it remained tacky and if it didn't cure.

GlueBoost is the better alternative to any regular CA. Only requires a few coats with one second bursts of accelerator between coats. Rockler carries GB in-store. Otherwise, you can order it online. No comparison IMHO. Here is another post I made regarding GB. Once you get the technique down you can even do away with Micro Mesh.

Here are 2 vids on it.
Mark Dreyer - GluBoost - Liquid Finish In A Bottle

GluBoost application to wooden pen
 
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