Mitersaw

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jttheclockman

jttheclockman

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Does anyone here own the Festool Kapex mitersaw. I am thinking of blowing my 2011 tool fund money on this saw. I looked at this saw for the past 2 years now and I am getting into segmenting turning more and more and want to step up to the big leagues. Looking for opinions and comments. Now before anyone starts telling me other saws on the market can do what this saw does for less, prove to me that you compared the saw you have in mind and give me the reasons why you think the way you do. I am open for ideas. Thanks.
 
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Was looking at one this morning John -- Malcom Tibbits has one and uses it in several of his DVDs (He notes that Festool sent it to him to use). Tibbits book shows the jigs for cutting segments with a sliding compound miter saw. His priior saw was a Hitachi

It looks to be the Rolls of the sliding miter saws --

Thought about a Brynes Table saw -- like Neil just go??
 
Anyone who owns a Festool product will tell you, they just don't come much better than this. I have their jigsaw and it is one VERY well designed and manufactured tool. I say, if you want it and you have the money stashed away to buy it, go for it. I've never regreted buying quality, while there are a number of times that I've wanted to kick myself for going cheap. All that being said, I sure like my Barnes model table saw for accurate cuts. Worth a look if what you want to do is segmenting.

Jim Smith
 
jttheclockman said:
Does anyone here own the Festool Kapex mitersaw. I am thinking of blowing my 2011 tool fund money on this saw. [...]
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I don't own a Kapex, but have lusted over it since it came out. Festool stuff is expensive, but very well made. I tried their orbital sander at a trade show, and was very impressed with the engineering that goes into their products.

I have a 30-year old radial arm saw in my shop, and it is my most used saw. The newer ones are junk unless you are looking at industrial models from Delta or Original Saw Company. The Kapex to me comes closest to emulating a RAS, in my opinion. One project for which this saw (and my RAS) excels is cutting dadoes on long boards. Not something you want to try on a table saw, although you could use a router. Now, if I were to invest in a new saw for pen blanks, I'd likely get a Byrnes mini table saw, since I already own a bandsaw, regular tablesaw, and my RAS.

The Kapex is far more versatile than your typical sliding/compound miter saws. My compound miter saw is going to get moved to the garage, for cutting down dimensional lumber, and for outdoor projects. I seldom use it in my woodshop. But a Kapex could replace my RAS ... :smile:
 
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There was a review of one over on Woodturners Resource. He seemed pretty happy with it.

EDIT: Sorry it was a Hitachi not a Festool. Color threw me.... it wasn't gold and black.
 
I have one and love it. I am not an experienced woodworker, and mostly use it for pen turning. The dust collection works very well when you connect a vac or dust extractor. I made a zero clearance fence for it when cutting pen blanks. The laser shows dual lines to simulate the width of the blade for very exact cuts. If it fits your budget, I can gladly recommend it.
 
John -- we are trying to help you move ahead ---

Post a picture when you get it installed in your shop!!!

Go For It!!!!
 
We, well,, the last Western Washington Group meeting, at Rockler, they let us use theirs in the shop. IT WAS AWESOME.
 
Buying quality is never a bad choice. Buy cheap and throw it away then buy quality, money thrown down the rat hole.
Charles
 
KenV said:
Was looking at one this morning John -- Malcom Tibbits has one and uses it in several of his DVDs (He notes that Festool sent it to him to use). Tibbits book shows the jigs for cutting segments with a sliding compound miter saw. His priior saw was a Hitachi

It looks to be the Rolls of the sliding miter saws --

Thought about a Brynes Table saw -- like Neil just go??
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Malcolm is the person I am using as my mentor. I have his dvds and yes he does make things look easy but if you really break things down they are simple. I am by no means buying to do do pen blanks of any kind. I am into real segmenting or at least heading that way. The Byrnes saw is nice but way too limited for what I want to do. The biggest thing I am reading is that you get glue faced joints right from the saw and to do that you need a saw that has zero runout in the blade and motor. I know of no saw that has this. Maybe the Brynes does because of the size but never used it. That saw is perfect for small things like pen blanks. I will probably wait until the woodworking show comes to town in Feb. This way I get to play and will see if they have any deals going. Thanks for the replys.
 
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Jim Smith said:
Anyone who owns a Festool product will tell you, they just don't come much better than this. I have their jigsaw and it is one VERY well designed and manufactured tool. I say, if you want it and you have the money stashed away to buy it, go for it. I've never regreted buying quality, while there are a number of times that I've wanted to kick myself for going cheap. All that being said, I sure like my Barnes model table saw for accurate cuts. Worth a look if what you want to do is segmenting.

Jim Smith
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Not quite everyone, Jim. I don't really care for Festool. The slide miter saw does look impressive, but I have not used it.

I do have the FT jig saw that lives in a drawer to keep it all shiney and nice. My Bosch jig saw outperforms the Festool and I am in no way a Bosch enthusiast. I also own a FT small tool dust extractor that also pales to my Ridgid 1638 with the ClearVue mini attached. Even after buying the ClearVue, the Ridgid is half the cost of the FT. THE ONY WAY in which my Festool is superior is in noise reduction-which makes NO difference to me as I can't hear the Ridgid over the sander anyway.

Simply, I own several Festool products and feel that I paid too much FOR A NAME PLATE.

Respectfully submitted.
 
John:
I have to agree with Ken, too. I'd have to take a long hard look at the Hitachi miter saw first. The savings could amount to several Emperor and Imperial hardware sets.

The only problem I ever had with Hitachi miter saws is that they are smarter than me! I'm back to using my old friend, ole stupid and familiar DeWalt cms.
 
PenMan1 said:
John:
I have to agree with Ken, too. I'd have to take a long hard look at the Hitachi miter saw first. The savings could amount to several Emperor and Imperial hardware sets.

The only problem I ever had with Hitachi miter saws is that they are smarter than me! I'm back to using my old friend, ole stupid and familiar DeWalt cms.
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Andy

With all due respect, Ken never mentioned the Hitachi was as good. He mentioned Malcolm Tibbets used one before the Kapex. I talked to Malcolm and he said the cut quality on the 2 are non comapareble. If you noticed and you probably haven't unless you have his dvd's he always uses a sanding disc after all his cuts on the Hatachi but on the Kapex it is not needed to get a sweet glue joint. In segmenting it is all about fit and there are several ways to get there and sanding is always involved. But if you can eliminate that step in some parts of your build then the time saved is huge especially when talking hundreds of cuts.

I would love to hear from someone who has compared any of the miter saws to the Kapex head to head. See, people with miter saws and I have a 10" Delta that has served me well use it for moldings and decks and things where joints are not that important. In segmenting that is what distiguishes a good job from a great one. Good enough is not in the vocabulary. Radial arm saws are dinasours. With the invention of sliding mitersaws they take up alot less room and are more accurate. The new Bosh with the articulating arm instead of sliders is the one that is rivaling the Kapex but is too new to make those claims yet. With this technology the saw can now sit right next to the wall and take up no extra room. This is an advantage of the Kapex as well.
 
John, I can't help you with your decision to buy a festool saw or not but am curious about some comments you made.

I think at one time or another we have all fallen in love with a new tool and over the past 35 years of buying tools for my shop I have had many such affairs. Some tools turned out to be fantastic buys and heavily used, while some tools never lived up to my expectations and sadly just sat around collecting dust.

What prompted me to write this is that in almost every post above you mentioned "segmenting" as one of the reasons you were looking at this saw. I have a nice Delta compound miter saw and to be honest, it is the LAST tool I would consider when doing any segmenting work for pens! Now it's not as pretty and shiny as the festool but NEITHER would be my choice for making detailed cuts.

Every tool has it's purpose AND it's limitations and this miter saws might be fine for making compound angled cuts in a 2x4 or accurate cuts in 6" crown molding using the double laser lines that will bring you to within 1/16" but unless you are a framing carpenter cutting rafters or a trim carpenter cutting crown molding and wood trim, I see little use around the shop for any intricate work.

I can only speak from my own experiences but when I want to make a blank where I use segments as thin as .020", I use the Incra Miter Express with my table saw. With this setup I can clamp a segment sliver .125" thick by 3" long and trim .002" off the edge before glueing. These are tolerences this tool is designed for and the festool saw or any miter saw would be totally useless with this type of work.

I'm sure you have other uses for the saw and as far as I know, you may just be a framing carpenter! I'd just hate to see you spend lots of money on a tool, thinking it's going to be the answer to your needs.

Just for grins, visit http://www.incra.com/product_miter_express.htm then looking at the right side of the screen, scroll down to the third photo where they are describing the hold down clamp. Pretend this is a pen blank you just segmented and now want to fine tune the cut before glueing to another piece. Could you imagine trimming off .002" with the miter saw or changing the angle of the bevel by .003" instead of 1/2 degree?

But, in the end this does fall squarely into the category of.... "whatever floats your boat", so good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Great post, George!

John. I agree with you, too! If the Festool meets your needs (or wants) you should get that tool rather than spend a lifetime wandering.

I make a lot of pens and for segments, the TS is my goto equipment. Even though I make pens for a living, I use a home built pen sled on an inexpensive TS. As much as I would love a Byrnes or even the Incra miter and sled. My business simply can not justify this expenditure for the frequency it is used.

Respectfully submitted.
 
Texatdurango said:
John, I can't help you with your decision to buy a festool saw or not but am curious about some comments you made.

I think at one time or another we have all fallen in love with a new tool and over the past 35 years of buying tools for my shop I have had many such affairs. Some tools turned out to be fantastic buys and heavily used, while some tools never lived up to my expectations and sadly just sat around collecting dust.

What prompted me to write this is that in almost every post above you mentioned "segmenting" as one of the reasons you were looking at this saw. I have a nice Delta compound miter saw and to be honest, it is the LAST tool I would consider when doing any segmenting work for pens! Now it's not as pretty and shiny as the festool but NEITHER would be my choice for making detailed cuts.

Every tool has it's purpose AND it's limitations and this miter saws might be fine for making compound angled cuts in a 2x4 or accurate cuts in 6" crown molding using the double laser lines that will bring you to within 1/16" but unless you are a framing carpenter cutting rafters or a trim carpenter cutting crown molding and wood trim, I see little use around the shop for any intricate work.

I can only speak from my own experiences but when I want to make a blank where I use segments as thin as .020", I use the Incra Miter Express with my table saw. With this setup I can clamp a segment sliver .125" thick by 3" long and trim .002" off the edge before glueing. These are tolerences this tool is designed for and the festool saw or any miter saw would be totally useless with this type of work.

I'm sure you have other uses for the saw and as far as I know, you may just be a framing carpenter! I'd just hate to see you spend lots of money on a tool, thinking it's going to be the answer to your needs.

Just for grins, visit http://www.incra.com/product_miter_express.htm then looking at the right side of the screen, scroll down to the third photo where they are describing the hold down clamp. Pretend this is a pen blank you just segmented and now want to fine tune the cut before glueing to another piece. Could you imagine trimming off .002" with the miter saw or changing the angle of the bevel by .003" instead of 1/2 degree?

But, in the end this does fall squarely into the category of.... "whatever floats your boat", so good luck with whatever you decide.
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George I just saw your post and will answer you when I get back. I have to go out now. You sort of making my point for me. :smile:
 
George and Andy

I agree with what you are saying and George I have been there also. I have a Delta Shaper sitting in my shop collecting dust. Have a ton of routers that do the same things. The cutter for the shaper are killers. That was suppose to be for my cabinet making phase.

I am not a professional carpenter or cabinet maker. My profession is Electrician for 38 years. My hobby is woodworking of all kinds. Can not be tied to one thing such as pen making or I would be bored out of my mind.

I thought i mentioned it a couple of times but will again This saw is not for pen turning. I do not do much segmenting in pens. Just not my thing.
This is what I want it for. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17714&source=googleps&utm_source=GoogleBase

To do things like this but want to carry over the ideas to clock making also. That is my main income in the hobbys I do. Pen turning is something I added a couple years ago when I got into lathe work. The Byrnes saw would be a great saw for segmenting pens because of the thinnes of the blade. But I can do that with a table saw too using a thin kerfed blade. The brynes saw matches the size of the material you are working with so it is less frightening when cutting small pieces such as pen blanks. I think that could also be a false sense of security so anyone using one please be careful.

The reason I posted this question here is because from some of the members I see segmented work in the galleries and read about how some members do other woodworking. Thought there might be one of two people here who own one of these and could shed some opinions. I have looked and lusted after this saw for 2 years now and being the woodworking show are coming into town next month, my lust grows again. But this time I have saved and really considering pulling the triger. It is an investment that will always have a huge return if I decide to sell it. Not like other tools that lose value very quickly because a newer more updated model comes along. With this saw they just about thought of everything and is well constructed. Here i go again trying to sell it to myself. :smile: Thanks for the replys.
 
George and Andy --

I have been about to move into general segmented turning and do not want to move into a larger table saw - My observation is that roughly about 1/2 of the segmented turners are using table saws and sleds and about 1/2 are using sliding miter saws. There do not seem to be many who use both.

Some of the segmented constructs are going to be appropriate for pens and minatures while some of the segmented constructs would be use for some for other things that I am thinking about making.

John is a bit ahead of me and I am wondering which way he is going to jump.
 
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