Micro scratches and buffing

[Hippie3180]

I'm curious as to what extent buffing decreases the appearance of micro scratches? I get a fairly brilliant polish without a buffing wheel, however especially on black in the right light I can still see tiny scratches. I'm wondering to what extent buffing would help? I'm feeling like I need to pop on a buffing system.

I guess what I'm asking is the difference significant enough to buy a buffer? Like do scratches become practically invisible?

 

[TDahl]

Buffing will reduce the micro-scratches fairly well. I use the Plastic Glo ("Ultra Fine") and the Plastic ("Fine") compounds from Caswell with their Canton Flannel buffing wheels (one for each compound. I then follow it up with the blue compound. The Ultra Fine and Fine compounds actually do the cutting into the material that reduces the micro scratches, and the blue compound does not do any cutting, but polishes the surface giving a mirror like finish. It is important to note the order of compounds: Use the "Ultra Fine" first, then the "Fine." It sounds backwards but the Fine compound gives a finer polish than the "Ultra Fine."

Here is a link to information on polishing on the Caswell website. It has a lot of good information:

How To Buff And Polish

caswellplating.com

 

[rixstix]

Can't remember all my reading but do a bit of homework. There are different wheel materials & different media. The right or wrong combinations can affect the outcome. Flannel, canvas, cotton, chamois, and more.

 

[PreacherJon]

I just use Micro-Mesh up to 12,000 grit. Micro-mesh was developed originally for Fighter Pilot canopies. 12,000 is a scratch so small the human eye cannot detect it. Also, I've been using the same pads for about 5 years. I don't run out, like using those compounds you have to buy more of it. Although... I am due for a new set of pads.

 

[PatrickR]

i find buffing to be an effective part of the process. if you can get an acceptable finish on black you'll get one on any color if you follow the same process. Black ebonite is at the top of the list. The most important thing is to completely remove the scratches from the previous grit and that is probably the issue. Clean and inspect under a bright raking light and if the scratch pattern is not even keep using that grit until it does. Changing direction with each grit helps to see if you have completely replaced the previous pattern.
my process is -
dry 400 / 600
wet 600 / 800 / 1000 / 1500
Novus fine
two levels of buffing
McGuires plast X

 

[Hippie3180]

i find buffing to be an effective part of the process. if you can get an acceptable finish on black you'll get one on any color if you follow the same process. Black ebonite is at the top of the list. The most important thing is to completely remove the scratches from the previous grit and that is probably the issue. Clean and inspect under a bright raking light and if the scratch pattern is not even keep using that grit until it does. Changing direction with each grit helps to see if you have completely replaced the previous pattern.
my process is -
dry 400 / 600
wet 600 / 800 / 1000 / 1500
Novus fine
two levels of buffing
McGuires plast X

So maybe I need some rudimentary sanding technique. I've never had anyone really educate me on it, maybe I need to do some reading up.

 

[d_bondi]

For Alumilite, I have been doing the following:

1. Dry 400 (final fine shaping, removal of tool marks)
2. Wet 600/800 all 6 Zona Paper Grits
3. Both steps 1 and 2 are done with lathe spinning at about 1,000 rpm and stopped sanding longitudinally
4. One Step Plastic Polish (twice)
5. Renaissance Wax (twice)
6. With PSI Buffing set, First with Blue Jewelers Rouge (I am told this does not cut, just buffs), the clean wheel only

This seems to work well for me. The problem areas for me are the ends of pens that are flat because the relative speed on the lathe is slows as you get to the center. Need a solution for this.

The other issue is the threads, really hoping someone has a good process for the threads.

I have heard of processes that turn then sand, then use 3 or 4 buffing wheels with different compounds and voila, perfect results, Does anyone have anything comprehensive (read as "idiot proof" ) that spells this out in detail including grits, buffing wheel types, compounds, etc?

 

[Curly]

I use the 3 Beall buffing wheels that mount in the lathe and get a decent shine.

I start sanding with 320 or 400 at 1800rpm or less, around and then lengthwise with the lathe stopped. Might use 600 if I feel like it.

#0000 steel wool, lathe on and then lathe off lengthwise.

Wipe off all the abrasive.

Tripoli (brown) at about 1200 to 1500 rpm. Around the barrel, then diagonally both angles and finally lengthwise. Clean off all buffing compound with soft cloth or paper towel including the ends.

White diamond same rpm the same way. Around, angle both directions and lengthwise. Clean off all compound.

Carnauba wax same directions as above.

Caswell have some better compounds and wheels worth substituting or adding to the sequence. You'll have to figure out which ones.

Note if you see scratches you can go down without cleaning off the compound but you must clean before going up to a finer one. If you don't clean you take coarse compound up and contaminate that wheel.

The reason I buff at slower speed than most is it keeps the plastic cool and acts like a softer wheel.

This is a Black Japanese Ebonite pen I made years ago following the above routine. https://www.penturners.org/threads/little-black-number-custom.103377/ Wow hard to believe that was almost a dozen years ago.

Pete

Looks like from my old thread I used lower RPMs but that doesn't stop you from playing around to see what works the best for you.

 

[jttheclockman]

For Alumilite, I have been doing the following:

1. Dry 400 (final fine shaping, removal of tool marks)
2. Wet 600/800 all 6 Zona Paper Grits
3. Both steps 1 and 2 are done with lathe spinning at about 1,000 rpm and stopped sanding longitudinally
4. One Step Plastic Polish (twice)
5. Renaissance Wax (twice)
6. With PSI Buffing set, First with Blue Jewelers Rouge (I am told this does not cut, just buffs), the clean wheel only

This seems to work well for me. The problem areas for me are the ends of pens that are flat because the relative speed on the lathe is slows as you get to the center. Need a solution for this.

The other issue is the threads, really hoping someone has a good process for the threads.

I have heard of processes that turn then sand, then use 3 or 4 buffing wheels with different compounds and voila, perfect results, Does anyone have anything comprehensive (read as "idiot proof" ) that spells this out in detail including grits, buffing wheel types, compounds, etc?

I believe in the library there are articles.

 

[d_bondi]

I believe in the library there are articles.

Thanks John, why didn't I think of that. I'll look.

 

[egnald]

Although I have never bought any to give them a try, I have read many accolades related to the Magic Juice polishing system developed by Stadium Pen Blanks. Their sample set of 6 "grits" costs about $15.
Dave

 

[Hippie3180]

This is all very helpful,I get a nice shiny finish, but if I look in the right light I can see tiny, tiny scratches in black in particular. I'm really looking to still improve upon my finish. I'm just wondering if buffing is going to reduce the appearance of the fine micro scratches enough to be worth the $.

 

[leehljp]

One thing some people do is start too low in sandpaper numbers and that makes it difficult to sand out the low grits. I personally do not start with SP numbers below 400 at all, and usually at 600 grit. When it comes to the finish aspect - 12000 mm or equivalent. I spend a fair amount of time with 12000MM and an equal amount of time with a buffing cloth too.

 

[jrista]

I'm curious as to what extent buffing decreases the appearance of micro scratches? I get a fairly brilliant polish without a buffing wheel, however especially on black in the right light I can still see tiny scratches. I'm wondering to what extent buffing would help? I'm feeling like I need to pop on a buffing system.

I guess what I'm asking is the difference significant enough to buy a buffer? Like do scratches become practically invisible?

I've had good success with buffing to clean up those fine scratches. I use a combination of white diamond, blue rouge and then a clean, no-compound wheel for final cleanup buffing in a three-wheel setup.

The white diamond is a fairly fine grit, and should do most of the cleanup. The blue rouge is a super fine grit that is designed to give you a high gloss on plastics and most resins, including CA.

I've found that the trick is to keep buffing until the fine scratches are well and truly gone. Sometimes this can take a while. The difference with buffing, vs. just sanding/wet sanding (even with micromesh or zona paper, which get you down to about 2 microns or 1 micron, respectively) is the buffing compound swipes over the blank pretty randomly, if you use the right speed for the wheels (1200-1500rpm). The nature of the spinning wheel and moving the blank around on the wheel is that the fibers, loaded with abrasive compound, will brush over and off the blank very randomly, and also lengthwise along the blank RATHER THAN RADIALLY! So the buffing is basically cross-cutting the fine scratches from on the lathe sanding with much higher grit abrasive and very random motions lengthwise along the blank.

If you spend the time and don't rush, you should find that your blanks are for all intents and purposes "scratch free" in the vast majority of lighting.

 

[jrista]

One thing some people do is start too low in sandpaper numbers and that makes it difficult to sand out the low grits. I personally do not start with SP numbers below 400 at all, and usually at 600 grit. When it comes to the finish aspect - 12000 mm or equivalent. I spend a fair amount of time with 12000MM and an equal amount of time with a buffing cloth too.

 

[Hippie3180]

I've had good success with buffing to clean up those fine scratches. I use a combination of white diamond, blue rouge and then a clean, no-compound wheel for final cleanup buffing in a three-wheel setup.

The white diamond is a fairly fine grit, and should do most of the cleanup. The blue rouge is a super fine grit that is designed to give you a high gloss on plastics and most resins, including CA.

I've found that the trick is to keep buffing until the fine scratches are well and truly gone. Sometimes this can take a while. The difference with buffing, vs. just sanding/wet sanding (even with micromesh or zona paper, which get you down to about 2 microns or 1 micron, respectively) is the buffing compound swipes over the blank pretty randomly, if you use the right speed for the wheels (1200-1500rpm). The nature of the spinning wheel and moving the blank around on the wheel is that the fibers, loaded with abrasive compound, will brush over and off the blank very randomly, and also lengthwise along the blank RATHER THAN RADIALLY! So the buffing is basically cross-cutting the fine scratches from on the lathe sanding with much higher grit abrasive and very random motions lengthwise along the blank.

If you spend the time and don't rush, you should find that your blanks are for all intents and purposes "scratch free" in the vast majority of lighting.

This. This is what I was wondering. Great information here.

 

[Hippie3180]

One thing some people do is start too low in sandpaper numbers and that makes it difficult to sand out the low grits. I personally do not start with SP numbers below 400 at all, and usually at 600 grit. When it comes to the finish aspect - 12000 mm or equivalent. I spend a fair amount of time with 12000MM and an equal amount of time with a buffing cloth too.

This makes sense.

 

[dogcatcher]

I recommend reading thus thread. It creates and answers more issues than you can think of.

Buffing-- kicked up a notch!

If you like your buffing finishes on your CA finished or acrylic pens and are content with the shine they give you then read no further. However if you want to kick the gloss up a notch you might consider trying this..... 1. Visit Caswell plating 2. Order a few Canton flannel buffs. These...

www.penturners.org

 

[TDahl]

One thing I have been experimenting with (and have had good results) is only sanding length wise. I start with 400 grit and rotate the live center center by hand as I sand. This takes more time, but the results are better. I sand up to 10000 grit and then go to the buffing wheels. I also want to echo what Jrista said: you may have to go through the buffing process several times to get the results you want.

 

[d_bondi]

One thing I have been experimenting with (and have had good results) is only sanding length wise. I start with 400 grit and rotate the live center center by hand as I sand. This takes more time, but the results are better. I sand up to 10000 grit and then go to the buffing wheels. I also want to echo what Jrista said: you may have to go through the buffing process several times to get the results you want.

Hi Tim, what grits between 400 and 10,000 are you using?

 

[TDahl]

I mostly use Silicone Carbide because it seems to work well on both plastics and metal. I get my 360 to 3000 from Online Industrial Supply. Unfortunately Online Industrial Supply only goes up to 3000 grit. The 4000 to 10000 grits are kind of hit and miss for me. I have had luck going through Amazon and found some vendors who sell assorted packs of Silicon Carbide grits ranging from 3000 to 15000.

 

[rixstix]

3M Tri-M-Ite is silicon carbide

https://www.riogrande.com/product/3m-tri-m-ite-polishing-paper-assortment/337308GP/?code=337308

There are also packages of individual grits in addition to the assortment above.

 

[TonyL]

There are several approaches in the Library that to Wayne. Here is the Library link if interested. IAP Library