Been working on my photography as of late. Trying to photograph a couple dozen pens nicely, so I can get them into my Etsy store, and have the pictures to as much of the work as I can get them to. Here is the first pen from this round of photographing, and I think it turned out fairly well. I was previously using either chrome or acrylic pen stands...and, that just wasn't really doing what I wanted. So I hauled out some notebooks, and have started playing with little still scenes to see if those make for better pictures that make the pen more interesting:
Making the sale with photos
- Thread starter jrista
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One thing I really want to do, is try and iron out that crease in the background. I did that with two other faux leather sheets I have, a black stippled one and a brown textured one. Worked pretty well. There is still a bit of evidence it exists, but it lays properly flat, and generally looks better.
Hippie3180
Member
I really like the second shot a lot and would love to see it zoomed in a bit more so the pen is definitely the subject matter.
Those are very well done.
Those are very well done.
jttheclockman
Member
Yea you are now playing in the artsy side of photography. I believe on Etsy though they do not allow photos like that if I am correct. They want plain white basic photos. I maybe wrong but the scrollsaw site I belong to there is a person that sells his stuff on all the sites. Amazon, Etsy, Ebay, FB and a couple more. He mentions many times these sites keep changing the rules and of course keep jacking prices. Good luck.
I don't think they have any such rules. Have you been to Etsy lately? Its artsy fartsy photos in almost every product.
Well, a lot of them at least, not almost every.Here is a nice one (photos wise):
UKRAINIAN Black Leather Shoulder Bag Crossbody Bag Leather Handbag Ethnic Bag Messenger Bag Ladies Handbag Woman Handbag Dark Brown Bag - Etsy
This Crossbody Bags item by GoGodz has 3440 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Mar 20, 2024
www.etsy.com
I think...that you see a lot of white background stuff, because not everyone has the skill, or the money to pay someone with the skill, to get the really nice photos, modeled products, etc. All my other product photos were nice as well, although not as nice as this (at least for pens...the first round of pen photos were kind of pitiful, but I was under the gun to get some product in place to try and take advantage of the holidays.)
But I often buy from people who do some nice photography work, or maybe pay someone to do it for them. Here is a nice bandsaw box for sale that has some nice staged photos, not just a white background:
Jewelry Trinket Keepsake Solid Wood Bandsaw Box - Etsy
This Jewelry Boxes item by oldmanwoodshop has 13 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Greenwood, SC. Listed on Mar 6, 2024
www.etsy.com
I moved my lights (it was pretty tight packed when I was getting these, and had to move them to kind of "get out" of the area), so I am not sure if I can make another photo with the same quality, lighting, tone and style. I'll try though.
jttheclockman
Member
You are probably right. Maybe he was talking about a different site maybe it was Amazon. Anyway good job on the photos.I don't think they have any such rules. Have you been to Etsy lately? Its artsy fartsy photos in almost every product.
Here is a nice one (photos wise):
UKRAINIAN Black Leather Shoulder Bag Crossbody Bag Leather Handbag Ethnic Bag Messenger Bag Ladies Handbag Woman Handbag Dark Brown Bag - Etsy
This Crossbody Bags item by GoGodz has 3440 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Ukraine. Listed on Mar 20, 2024
I think...that you see a lot of white background stuff, because not everyone has the skill, or the money to pay someone with the skill, to get the really nice photos, modeled products, etc. All my other product photos were nice as well, although not as nice as this (at least for pens...the first round of pen photos were kind of pitiful, but I was under the gun to get some product in place to try and take advantage of the holidays.)
But I often buy from people who do some nice photography work, or maybe pay someone to do it for them. Here is a nice bandsaw box for sale that has some nice staged photos, not just a white background:
Jewelry Trinket Keepsake Solid Wood Bandsaw Box - Etsy
This Jewelry Boxes item by oldmanwoodshop has 13 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Greenwood, SC. Listed on Mar 6, 2024
McKenzie Penworks
Member
Nicely done. I found that staged photos like this with props, etc do more to set your photos apart from the folks just putting it on a white background.
moke
Member
Small product photography is totally dependent on the client. The whole " I'm selling my product, not the background" is very alive and well in the industry. Most don't want white backgrounds, but that is still alive too.....it is popular for those wanting to drop the background....but simple colored paper is quite prominent. There are those who want something "different" that want the whole "themed" background. They do however, want the product to be more prominent and less of the background. Art directors/graphic artists often times want to crop it themselves and have some more control. though. More than anything, it is all about what the client wants.
Not to criticize, but you are not concentrated enough on the pen itself. less pages, more pen. The same with the closeups of the tip. With the body being out of focus for effect (Great idea BTW) you do not need to see the whole body of the pen to get the idea. Just like a Head and Shoulders portrait, you do not have to see the feet to know they are there. The photo of the clip end is well done. On some of the others move your pieces closer to the lamp, but continue to maintain some separation. Remember to continue to use your rule of thirds also. But really I like what you are doing. They say theme-based photographs have to have impact almost instantly. People are said to look at a photo 3 to 5 seconds. Often times we spend so much time on the set up we forget the purpose of the photograph, or are so proud of the set-up we show too much of it.
Again, don't take me wrong, you have done well and are on the right track. Let me tell you tho, when you do it for a living, your clients can be brutal....
Not to criticize, but you are not concentrated enough on the pen itself. less pages, more pen. The same with the closeups of the tip. With the body being out of focus for effect (Great idea BTW) you do not need to see the whole body of the pen to get the idea. Just like a Head and Shoulders portrait, you do not have to see the feet to know they are there. The photo of the clip end is well done. On some of the others move your pieces closer to the lamp, but continue to maintain some separation. Remember to continue to use your rule of thirds also. But really I like what you are doing. They say theme-based photographs have to have impact almost instantly. People are said to look at a photo 3 to 5 seconds. Often times we spend so much time on the set up we forget the purpose of the photograph, or are so proud of the set-up we show too much of it.
Again, don't take me wrong, you have done well and are on the right track. Let me tell you tho, when you do it for a living, your clients can be brutal....
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Thanks for the feedback, Mike. So, would you say that photo #3 would maybe be the best one, for a primary photo? It has the whole pen there, front and center. The rest would be other photos to show off other aspects of the pen.
moke
Member
No not at all. BTW, I edited the body of the last post again. No to #3, not at all. The main photograph in the style you are using should be #1. By all means, just move closer. Show just enough of the lamp to show what it is. In my mind that is a horizontal I'm not even sure that the bottom of the book or the "pages" are relevant. You will have to be careful with the black page markers...not saying they are bad, just make sure folks can tell what they are. #2 thru the end, as you have said would be to show off the other aspects of the pen. It is our job as photographers to deliver the other photographs, but I would guess an art director would use maybe two or three at the most. In print or advertising space, space is money. That means less of your work will show.....none the less, we still need to deliver variety. I have often times been perplexed at what the graphic artists used.
As previously mentioned often times the publication has input on to what they will accept, make sure that you research that.
Again, you are on the right track, just remember, it is the product that is the "star".
As previously mentioned often times the publication has input on to what they will accept, make sure that you research that.
Again, you are on the right track, just remember, it is the product that is the "star".
To be clear, these are my own photos, of my own products, for my own Etsy store. So I am not doing the photography as the work itself. The photography, I am hoping, will do some work to sell my pens, bowls, vases, etc. on my Etsy store.
moke
Member
Yes, but you seem to be going for a themed type photograph. I hate to see you loose the lamp....the lamp adds warmth to the photo. Maybe the next time you photograph elevate the book so it can get onto the base of the lamp so it can get closer, move the pen up on the page..... crop horizontal and don't flip the end of the markers, just crop that off. That is however only MY vision.....you do it as you see fit.
I realize that you are only doing it for etsy, but the more professional the page/ad is the more you will sell....or so the marketing people think.
Again, don't go by my advice only. Look at ads. I have spent my life since I started in a Photography Institute. (which was a very long time ago.)
Look at all kinds of ads in print or even other media, and various products too. I like magazines....I can tear them out and keep them in a book for ideas. All of us get all kinds of pen advertisements, if you see something you like on the internet, print it out. Or scan it and make a folder for ideas, don't expect to remember these ideas.
Look at the ads....lighting, cropping, even props.....as you examine these ads/photographs think about ways to adapt it to your pens, props you already have, and how you can light it with the lights you have.
I realize that you are only doing it for etsy, but the more professional the page/ad is the more you will sell....or so the marketing people think.
Again, don't go by my advice only. Look at ads. I have spent my life since I started in a Photography Institute. (which was a very long time ago.)
Look at all kinds of ads in print or even other media, and various products too. I like magazines....I can tear them out and keep them in a book for ideas. All of us get all kinds of pen advertisements, if you see something you like on the internet, print it out. Or scan it and make a folder for ideas, don't expect to remember these ideas.
Look at the ads....lighting, cropping, even props.....as you examine these ads/photographs think about ways to adapt it to your pens, props you already have, and how you can light it with the lights you have.
Aye, I've been spending a lot of time lately watching videos of professional product photographers. One of the things I lack, that the pros seem to have, is the sheer number of lights, reflectors, masks, etc. I have a few large diffuse lights, a couple of barn doors, a single boom and clamp, and a handful of things I can potentially use to block or redirect light. I have had better success controlling light with these latest shoots, but, I still have a heck of a time REALLY controlling it.
I will see what I can do about getting a better angle on everything to include the lamp, as I agree, its a nice part of the scene. I think it might just take a little bit of rearranging. I'm realizing my mistake here, is putting the lamp off to the upper left, then the pen off to the middle right. That disjoints the two. I can probably just move the lamp to the upper right, behind the pen, and I should be able to get the shot I need. I have another barn door light I can pull out to project the necessary warm light from the angle where the desk lamp is right now, and that light can be adjusted from 5600K to 3000K color temp, and I can just drop it to 3000K (which is probably slightly cooler than the lamp on the table, which I suspect is more like 2700K, as its a classic edison style tungsten bulb.
I will see what I can do about getting a better angle on everything to include the lamp, as I agree, its a nice part of the scene. I think it might just take a little bit of rearranging. I'm realizing my mistake here, is putting the lamp off to the upper left, then the pen off to the middle right. That disjoints the two. I can probably just move the lamp to the upper right, behind the pen, and I should be able to get the shot I need. I have another barn door light I can pull out to project the necessary warm light from the angle where the desk lamp is right now, and that light can be adjusted from 5600K to 3000K color temp, and I can just drop it to 3000K (which is probably slightly cooler than the lamp on the table, which I suspect is more like 2700K, as its a classic edison style tungsten bulb.
moke
Member
Awesome!!!!!!
moke
Member
If you would have seen out product studio, you may have laughed. I used a lot studio flashes, unless we were going for warmth, then I used "live" lights. Live lights are easier to use. We used reflector cards a lot, we call them "Gobos"....short for go betweens....kinda.
I used foam core for gobos...I mostly left them in 4x4 sheets for purposes of larger products, but you of course could use smaller sizes. U can get some amber gobos for warmth if need be. I had probably 60 to 70 pony clamps and various stand and some old boom stands, but they wouldn't need to be booms. I would just clip the gobos to the stands to block or reflect. The boom stand were handy if the gobo needed to be high. You can work out what works best for you....its not rocket science. Just remember that the further away from the product the shadow will have a harder edge, and the closer away from it becomes softer.
Conversely, you can also reflect light into them to create a good soft light. That is what I used the amber gator foam for, to get a warm reflection. I never had very powerful live lights...no need, that is what god made long shutter speeds and camera stands for. I seldom shot much above 1/8 of a second, unless I was going for a shallow depth of field shot. Make sure to use a shutter release if you are dragging the shutter. I did have some "hot lights" more of a spot light look on our portrait side. The photographer would just drag it over from the portrait studio.
I was trying to find a "mini spot" on ebay. I couldn't find any, at least for a reasonable amount. Today, all the old lights are going for big bucks for decor'. You can use mini spots to put a light for "separation" from the back and elevated.....just low power...it is often referred to as a "garlic" light. Just like garlic...a little goes a long ways. We used a garlic light a lot in portraiture too. It was often said it is the difference between a "pitcher-taker" and a photographer. Most of our small product work used a garlic light. You just need to be careful, Garlic lights are usually 1/4 power of the main and fill.
You have done your homework and figured out what Kelvin Temperature is. That is great....don't always go by what the light bulb box says tho.
Particularly when using lower Kelvin Temp (KT) bulbs. Also the higher KT are not accurate either. There are a lot of 6500 KT bulbs out there....but very little in real life....most sunlight and flash is 5500. It really doesn't matter, now days, unless mixing KT. But like was previously discussed some warmth can really add. to a scene. BTW, I tried many many times to use a KT setting on a raw convertor to achieve the lower KT look, and it never looked right. Raw convertors use yellow-blue slide controls and KT is more of an amber.
Don't get caught up in using a number of lights...remember that what we see, in general, comes from a single light source ( the sun), and multiple lights can yield multiple shadows. U need a directional light, ( a main) and a source to fill in SOME of the shadows created by the main light ( the fill) That could be a good place for the reflectors....a good non directional light about 2/3 of the power. You can raise and lower the power of the fill for effect....referred to as lighting ratio.
Then your garlic light and call it good......so three possibly four lights depending on how many u use for the fill.
I tended to have lights/gobos, accessories, that I custom made for myself. I had two large "panel" lights that I made the frame for, with multiple lights, four I think in each. on wheels, with a shower curtain as a diffuser in front of the lights. Like I said in most professional studios you might be surprised as to what you would see. Lots of times they don't make what we want, or its so expensive you can not afford it. So while you will never likely want monster lights on wheels, I think you get my point, many very useful things can be constructed. I had friends that would never build anything, they were more used to the look of their studio, I always thought it was the look of the end product.
Seriously, start a "pose book" on your computer with tear sheets from magazines...Penn State is a good place to start. BTW, I seldom post pens....photographing them for me is like a bus mans holiday....I am just not feeling doing a big set up, or even photographing portraits these days.....I am retired from that and loving it...so when you see my pen photos, if I do post, they are just on a gray plastic background. But a lot of us old farts, I know how, from 43 years of doing it.
Btw you could still have your book open, just don't be afraid to crop in tighter than u think...just make sure you can tell what it is....The man I bought the studio from used to say, what are you selling...books or pens...
I used foam core for gobos...I mostly left them in 4x4 sheets for purposes of larger products, but you of course could use smaller sizes. U can get some amber gobos for warmth if need be. I had probably 60 to 70 pony clamps and various stand and some old boom stands, but they wouldn't need to be booms. I would just clip the gobos to the stands to block or reflect. The boom stand were handy if the gobo needed to be high. You can work out what works best for you....its not rocket science. Just remember that the further away from the product the shadow will have a harder edge, and the closer away from it becomes softer.
Conversely, you can also reflect light into them to create a good soft light. That is what I used the amber gator foam for, to get a warm reflection. I never had very powerful live lights...no need, that is what god made long shutter speeds and camera stands for. I seldom shot much above 1/8 of a second, unless I was going for a shallow depth of field shot. Make sure to use a shutter release if you are dragging the shutter. I did have some "hot lights" more of a spot light look on our portrait side. The photographer would just drag it over from the portrait studio.
I was trying to find a "mini spot" on ebay. I couldn't find any, at least for a reasonable amount. Today, all the old lights are going for big bucks for decor'. You can use mini spots to put a light for "separation" from the back and elevated.....just low power...it is often referred to as a "garlic" light. Just like garlic...a little goes a long ways. We used a garlic light a lot in portraiture too. It was often said it is the difference between a "pitcher-taker" and a photographer. Most of our small product work used a garlic light. You just need to be careful, Garlic lights are usually 1/4 power of the main and fill.
You have done your homework and figured out what Kelvin Temperature is. That is great....don't always go by what the light bulb box says tho.
Particularly when using lower Kelvin Temp (KT) bulbs. Also the higher KT are not accurate either. There are a lot of 6500 KT bulbs out there....but very little in real life....most sunlight and flash is 5500. It really doesn't matter, now days, unless mixing KT. But like was previously discussed some warmth can really add. to a scene. BTW, I tried many many times to use a KT setting on a raw convertor to achieve the lower KT look, and it never looked right. Raw convertors use yellow-blue slide controls and KT is more of an amber.
Don't get caught up in using a number of lights...remember that what we see, in general, comes from a single light source ( the sun), and multiple lights can yield multiple shadows. U need a directional light, ( a main) and a source to fill in SOME of the shadows created by the main light ( the fill) That could be a good place for the reflectors....a good non directional light about 2/3 of the power. You can raise and lower the power of the fill for effect....referred to as lighting ratio.
Then your garlic light and call it good......so three possibly four lights depending on how many u use for the fill.
I tended to have lights/gobos, accessories, that I custom made for myself. I had two large "panel" lights that I made the frame for, with multiple lights, four I think in each. on wheels, with a shower curtain as a diffuser in front of the lights. Like I said in most professional studios you might be surprised as to what you would see. Lots of times they don't make what we want, or its so expensive you can not afford it. So while you will never likely want monster lights on wheels, I think you get my point, many very useful things can be constructed. I had friends that would never build anything, they were more used to the look of their studio, I always thought it was the look of the end product.
Seriously, start a "pose book" on your computer with tear sheets from magazines...Penn State is a good place to start. BTW, I seldom post pens....photographing them for me is like a bus mans holiday....I am just not feeling doing a big set up, or even photographing portraits these days.....I am retired from that and loving it...so when you see my pen photos, if I do post, they are just on a gray plastic background. But a lot of us old farts, I know how, from 43 years of doing it.
Btw you could still have your book open, just don't be afraid to crop in tighter than u think...just make sure you can tell what it is....The man I bought the studio from used to say, what are you selling...books or pens...
@moke: Yeah! I picked up a number of foam core boards a while back. I got some black, gray and white ones. I haven't picked up any colors, but I do like warmer lighting for most things, except when the object is cooler in color itself, then I'd prefer to light with cooler light I think. All of my lights now, have some adjustment in color temp, too, so I can either do very warm for primary lighting, and very cool for backfill or rim lighting. I'm still learning all the ropes of that stuff. But I do like the foam core boards. Very handy!
Since I've started this business, and realize now that I have to make a profit each hear for a few years to avoid being reclassified as a hobbyist, I'm now super conscious about buying anything. I had plans to buy more lighting gear, clamps and stands and the like...but, its probably off the table now until I can prove I can make a profit. I really wish I had more, though, as I'm learning how powerful they are for tightly controlling every aspect of the light and how your scene looks. With the three or four lights I usually use, my control is limited.
Interesting about not shooting shorter than 1/8 sec....I've been trying to keep the exposures short. Maybe that is a mistake? I do use my build in countdown mode. It supports 2 and 10 seconds. I have some remote shutter releases, but they don't seem to work with the EOS R5...I originally bought them for the EOS 5D III.
So, I've been searching for all of these lights you mention. I have noticed a stark decline in search engine quality these days... Most of my searches return irrelevant results now. Searching for garlic light? I JUST get stuff about garlic...the plant itself, foods to cook with it, how to prepare it, actual garlic. Even when I add in photography, product photography, for scene lighting, or any other term...I still, just get garlic plant and food crap. I can hardly find anything anymore these days, when I search online. I use multiple search engines too, and they all seem to suck now.
So I assume garlic light is a slang term...is there an official term for this kind of light?
Regarding color temp, I'm quite familiar with it. I have done photography since about 2008, maybe even before that. So I got into all the photography and lighting terms back then...color temp, kelvin scale, 5500K sunlight, 6500K daylight, etc. etc. I know all the standard illuminants, etc. I'm a nut for color theory. I have noticed, however, that the two barn door lights I bought, are definitely not very accurate. In the middle of the range, they may be, but at the extremes, there is a sudden and notable shift. Looking at the panel itself, its a matrix of LEDs, two sets. At the warmest and coldest settings, they just turn off the other set of LEDs. Which really bugs me, because it doesn't deliver a continuous gradation of color temp accurate light. Or perhaps only the two ends are accurate, and everything in the middle is wrong. In any case, I didn't have a lot of money to spend, and the pair of them was $165 I think. Too late now to do anything about it.
Since I've started this business, and realize now that I have to make a profit each hear for a few years to avoid being reclassified as a hobbyist, I'm now super conscious about buying anything. I had plans to buy more lighting gear, clamps and stands and the like...but, its probably off the table now until I can prove I can make a profit. I really wish I had more, though, as I'm learning how powerful they are for tightly controlling every aspect of the light and how your scene looks. With the three or four lights I usually use, my control is limited.
Interesting about not shooting shorter than 1/8 sec....I've been trying to keep the exposures short. Maybe that is a mistake? I do use my build in countdown mode. It supports 2 and 10 seconds. I have some remote shutter releases, but they don't seem to work with the EOS R5...I originally bought them for the EOS 5D III.
So, I've been searching for all of these lights you mention. I have noticed a stark decline in search engine quality these days... Most of my searches return irrelevant results now. Searching for garlic light? I JUST get stuff about garlic...the plant itself, foods to cook with it, how to prepare it, actual garlic. Even when I add in photography, product photography, for scene lighting, or any other term...I still, just get garlic plant and food crap. I can hardly find anything anymore these days, when I search online. I use multiple search engines too, and they all seem to suck now.
So I assume garlic light is a slang term...is there an official term for this kind of light?
Regarding color temp, I'm quite familiar with it. I have done photography since about 2008, maybe even before that. So I got into all the photography and lighting terms back then...color temp, kelvin scale, 5500K sunlight, 6500K daylight, etc. etc.
I know all the standard illuminants, etc. I'm a nut for color theory. I have noticed, however, that the two barn door lights I bought, are definitely not very accurate. In the middle of the range, they may be, but at the extremes, there is a sudden and notable shift. Looking at the panel itself, its a matrix of LEDs, two sets. At the warmest and coldest settings, they just turn off the other set of LEDs. Which really bugs me, because it doesn't deliver a continuous gradation of color temp accurate light. Or perhaps only the two ends are accurate, and everything in the middle is wrong. In any case, I didn't have a lot of money to spend, and the pair of them was $165 I think. Too late now to do anything about it.@moke: So, with the book open vs. closed. My current thinking is, closed for the primary photos that really showcase the pen. Then, book open for those thin focus, highlight a single aspect photos. I think that might make for a good pattern. I have numerous different notebooks, so they won't necessarily all be the same. I may have to find another desk lamp for cooler scenes, this lamp is darn warm and wouldn't work for some of the pens I'm photographing.
DavidD
Member
I'd encourage you to have the majority of your photos in a light box (or at least with a clean, solid-colored, not-distracting background).
I love that you've created some "artsy" and "lifestyle" photos; they really look nice. But I think you'll want to make sure that you also include (a majority of) photos that are less distracting and really just highlight the product itself, simply.
So do 4-6 photos against your clean white background, ideally in a light box. And then have your 1-2 "artsy" photos to help make the sale, in case people need to visualize how they might use this pen and the type of value it will convey to them.
Good luck!
I love that you've created some "artsy" and "lifestyle" photos; they really look nice. But I think you'll want to make sure that you also include (a majority of) photos that are less distracting and really just highlight the product itself, simply.
So do 4-6 photos against your clean white background, ideally in a light box. And then have your 1-2 "artsy" photos to help make the sale, in case people need to visualize how they might use this pen and the type of value it will convey to them.
Good luck!
I have been reading about theory regarding product photos. There are certainly different camps, and they certainly have wars with each other.
One thing I have encountered is the idea of blending various kinds of photos. Have "A" studio shot (only the product, white background) to make it clear to the customer what they are actually buying. Have some lifestyle shots (i.e. what I have above). Have group shots (more than one, which doesn't make sense for a pen per-se.) Gave detail shots (plenty of those, one I particularly want is the breakdown of the pen so people understand it.)
Some people also recommend packaging shots, and I do have fairly nice packaging, but not sure if I'll include such shots. Some people recommend process shots. Etsy themselves highly recommends that one of the 10 photos actually be a video, which I fiddled with, but I don't really have equipment that would help me do that well, without it seeming ultra cheap...
So, I may try to have a shot that generally isolates the pen, or whatever product it is, to be clear to the buyer what they are buying. But I don't think I'll have most of my shots that way. I don't really like just the pen in a diffuse white environment...its just too bland for me. Part of the reason I'm trying more of the lifestyle shots, is that definitely seems to be what draws me to someone's store. I see nice products in nice environments, and when the photos are well done, that calls to me.
Sometimes when searching and browsing, Etsy will become white wall of largely mediocre product shots...and it can be hard to pick something out from that wall. Then a nice lifestyle shot comes along (like the bag one I shared earlier...that one definitely caught my eye, even though it wasn't even in a white wall), and bam. That's what I click on.
I'll see how it goes I guess. Right now, I don't even show up in the Etsy search. You have to reach their Superb Seller criteria or something like that, to really show up there. I don't now how long it will be before that happens, but most of the time, I think I'll be hooking people with the Etsy ads. Once they are on the product page, then I mostly want the product to be presented as nicely as possible, and I don't really feel that having most of the photos be in a diffuse white box, is really what I want.
DavidD
Member
I think you hit the nail on the head, with a "blend."
(FWIW: I can see what photo my customers view last, prior to making a purchase, and it is almost never the catch search photo. Search photos differentiate you on the search page and get people into your store. Clean photos or packaging photos make sales.)
Good luck
Keep in mind the differences (and different purposes) that main photos (search photos) vs. listing photos (the rest) serve. I think you later kind of get at this in your post... but be mindful that catching a person's eye is very different than clearly presenting your product, as well as the packaging for the product. You have catchy and really nice main photos already on Etsy (for your other products), so I'd again encourage you to be thoughtful about the other purposes photos serve: not only to attract attention, but to clearly and simply convey aspects about the product (and as you mention, packaging).
(FWIW: I can see what photo my customers view last, prior to making a purchase, and it is almost never the catch search photo. Search photos differentiate you on the search page and get people into your store. Clean photos or packaging photos make sales.)
Good luck
Fred Bruche
Member
Keep in mind that I am not a customer. That said, in real life, I will never look at a pen in that extreme macro view as in pictures 2,3 and 4. What is your goal in offering these pictures? The hardware? That there are micro "imperfections" on the pen?
Also, basic perception, when looking at a picture/scene the eyes are attracted first to the brightest spot, which is the bulb in the first and last pictures. That's not what you are trying to sell, isn't it?
hokie
Member
I'm no pro, but I like to think I take an alright photo, so take my comments with a grain of salt if you'd like...
I am not sure if it was mentioned (so apologies if I overlooked it), but what kind of lens are you using? I saw you're using an Canon R5 (I'm so jealous with my measly R6). You might benefit from a macro lens if it fits in the budget. When I got mine, it opened up a lot more shooting options and got me much needed bokeh for a pleasing look and to keep the pen the focus. Though, you'd need more/brighter lighting to make it work well.
I agree with @Fred Bruche , the close-ups are *really* close and it isn't clear why the small part of the pen that is in focus is being photographed. There doesn't appear to be anything particularly notable or appealing about the very ends of the pen). Admittedly, I sorta did that in the 5th picture here in one of my postings, but my hope was that I could effectively show the lines of the clip from a different angle, with the light hitting it differently as a capped pen.
After all of the hardware and composition issues are addressed, the (not so) secret to a good photo has got to be Photoshop (or its equivalents). Most importantly to me, I need Photoshop to remove the dust, microscratches, and other unsightly bits of the photo that are almost impossible to address without being in a NASA-certified clean room. After that, I usually adjust the "temperature" of the lighting so things aren't too warm or cool, followed by some vibrancy or contrast adjustments to help things *pop* a bit better if needed.
Last thought... I'd ditch the protective ball thing on the rollerball tip. If you don't want to remove the protective piece because that's how you'd like to provide it to your customer, maybe keep a spare unprotected refill for photography purposes.
Good luck!
I am not sure if it was mentioned (so apologies if I overlooked it), but what kind of lens are you using? I saw you're using an Canon R5 (I'm so jealous with my measly R6). You might benefit from a macro lens if it fits in the budget. When I got mine, it opened up a lot more shooting options and got me much needed bokeh for a pleasing look and to keep the pen the focus. Though, you'd need more/brighter lighting to make it work well.
I agree with @Fred Bruche , the close-ups are *really* close and it isn't clear why the small part of the pen that is in focus is being photographed. There doesn't appear to be anything particularly notable or appealing about the very ends of the pen). Admittedly, I sorta did that in the 5th picture here in one of my postings, but my hope was that I could effectively show the lines of the clip from a different angle, with the light hitting it differently as a capped pen.
After all of the hardware and composition issues are addressed, the (not so) secret to a good photo has got to be Photoshop (or its equivalents). Most importantly to me, I need Photoshop to remove the dust, microscratches, and other unsightly bits of the photo that are almost impossible to address without being in a NASA-certified clean room. After that, I usually adjust the "temperature" of the lighting so things aren't too warm or cool, followed by some vibrancy or contrast adjustments to help things *pop* a bit better if needed.
Last thought... I'd ditch the protective ball thing on the rollerball tip. If you don't want to remove the protective piece because that's how you'd like to provide it to your customer, maybe keep a spare unprotected refill for photography purposes.
Good luck!
So, for one, these images will not be full size as shared here. They will be smaller on Etsy, so I won't be showing off defects or the like.
The main thought with the shallower depth of field, was to try and avoid showing off the lamp in the background, for one, and to try and be a little more artsy with the shots.
If I am always showing the whole pen in full detail, meaning I'm stopping down to f/16 or farther, then of course the lamp and all is clearly and sharply visible as well. For one, i don't think there are a lot of defects visible in either the hardware or the pen. There are dust motes and such, as Jeremy said, impossible to avoid that outside of a clean room. I have photoshop to clean all that stuff up.
Jeremy, most of the photos were shot with the Canon 100mm f/2.8 IS lens (although the IS is off since its all on a tripod) and the Canon 50mm lens. These are my EF mount lenses, which I've had for years and also use on the DSLRs.
If I am being perfectly honest, I don't know what's wrong with showing the details of each end of the pen? There is nothing wrong with showing the whole pen, but i don't know what's wrong with showing part of the pen in greater detail.
I think you hit the nail on the head, with a "blend."
Keep in mind the differences (and different purposes) that main photos (search photos) vs. listing photos (the rest) serve. I think you later kind of get at this in your post... but be mindful that catching a person's eye is very different than clearly presenting your product, as well as the packaging for the product. You have catchy and really nice main photos already on Etsy (for your other products), so I'd again encourage you to be thoughtful about the other purposes photos serve: not only to attract attention, but to clearly and simply convey aspects about the product (and as you mention, packaging).
(FWIW: I can see what photo my customers view last, prior to making a purchase, and it is almost never the catch search photo. Search photos differentiate you on the search page and get people into your store. Clean photos or packaging photos make sales.)
Good luck
Thanks for the insights. So, it sounds like you do include packaging photos? And those are commonly viewed?
hokie
Member
Ah, so you may already be working with a macro? It seems every Canon 100mm I've seen happens to also be a macro lens. I love mine.
Absolutely nothing wrong with showing the details! I think the close-ups are actually well done from an execution standpoint and would be perfect for showing off logos, cabochons, or other bits of visual interest on those parts of the pen. I guess I was just saying that for that particular pen, the dramatic close-up didn't seem to deliver what I might have been expecting. However, it does effectively show the plating and finish of the hardware.
The point was to show the plating and finish. I sold a pen to a guy who didn't seem to expect the feel of the finish. It was Pens Plus, like this one, and it feels different than CA. It was a perfect finish, nothing really wrong with it, but he didn't realize (even though I said as much in the description) that it would feel the way it did (i.e. you could feel the grain.) Hence the close up shots showing the finish, and grain...and the plating.
Oh yes, its a macro. I'm only inches from the pen.
I've done macro for years, although mostly with nature stuff, like mushrooms:Flowers:
Woodchipper
Member
Noticed the nib still has the plastic protector on it. Folks might wonder what it is for.
moke
Member
Jrista-sorry didn't get back sooner....family obligations. Professional Photographers are big on slang. Garlic lighting will not be found in any books....likewise Gobos.....on and on. I was at a convention once and heard it called "spice lighting", his studio/building was twice the size of mine so hey...who's to say he's wrong?
Garlic lighting would properly be called "highlight lighting". Highlights can be created or suppressed in many ways....furniture polish rubbed on apples to give them that shiney look. There are many products used to make things shine. Most guys use the overhead and 45 degrees back light to create it. In portraiture that is used as a hair light.....and the garlic light is level with the face and back 45 degrees. There are also a whole myriad of products to stop shine too.
An interesting thing is, one of the, if not the most famous and probably the best Portrait Photographer ever was Yosef Karsh. He is deceased, doing his best work in the 40's and the 50's. He photographed famous people like the most famous Albert Einstein portrait, Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, on and on. And this only works in B&W, but he used vaseline to make the highlights pop.....in color it just looks nasty tho. That was his own invention. I tell you this to say try things...it does not need to say Photogenic or Bowen on the light to work, or any piece of equipment.....it is what works for you. Try things, build things, be creative.
Previously mentioned was a "light box", which is btw is not what it is called....it is a "light tent". A light box is for viewing slides. Sorry....no offense meant. Lighting tents yeild nice results, but they are kind of doing the same thing you are doing. They do control reflections in glossy surfaces, but you can do the same thing in your studio by turning off the overhead lights...but they are quick, easy, and yeild a very consistent result. You can use colored paper inside for different backgrounds. But the results are very similar every time. As I said in my first reply, most of my clients were after that. Show off the product, I am not interested in the fluff. You are interested in the fluff, at least for the intro photo. I agree that a mix of both could be warranted....but also know that mixing the theme based and a white background "show off my pen" photograph may look odd, or disjointed. Switching from one style to another I mean. Most Graphic Artisits would try and blend the two together some how, or just go with the theme based as you have it.
Take it one improvement at a time.....its Etsy, there are some not so good photos on there now, you can only go up.
Garlic lighting would properly be called "highlight lighting". Highlights can be created or suppressed in many ways....furniture polish rubbed on apples to give them that shiney look. There are many products used to make things shine. Most guys use the overhead and 45 degrees back light to create it. In portraiture that is used as a hair light.....and the garlic light is level with the face and back 45 degrees. There are also a whole myriad of products to stop shine too.
An interesting thing is, one of the, if not the most famous and probably the best Portrait Photographer ever was Yosef Karsh. He is deceased, doing his best work in the 40's and the 50's. He photographed famous people like the most famous Albert Einstein portrait, Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, on and on. And this only works in B&W, but he used vaseline to make the highlights pop.....in color it just looks nasty tho. That was his own invention. I tell you this to say try things...it does not need to say Photogenic or Bowen on the light to work, or any piece of equipment.....it is what works for you. Try things, build things, be creative.
Previously mentioned was a "light box", which is btw is not what it is called....it is a "light tent". A light box is for viewing slides. Sorry....no offense meant. Lighting tents yeild nice results, but they are kind of doing the same thing you are doing. They do control reflections in glossy surfaces, but you can do the same thing in your studio by turning off the overhead lights...but they are quick, easy, and yeild a very consistent result. You can use colored paper inside for different backgrounds. But the results are very similar every time. As I said in my first reply, most of my clients were after that. Show off the product, I am not interested in the fluff. You are interested in the fluff, at least for the intro photo. I agree that a mix of both could be warranted....but also know that mixing the theme based and a white background "show off my pen" photograph may look odd, or disjointed. Switching from one style to another I mean. Most Graphic Artisits would try and blend the two together some how, or just go with the theme based as you have it.
Take it one improvement at a time.....its Etsy, there are some not so good photos on there now, you can only go up.
@moke I actually have three light tents already. They are "box shaped" but they are in different sizes to accommodate different items. I've done this kind of photography before, which is why I don't generally like it. You have some control over the light, but the general nature of a light tent is that it globally diffuses the light. For a product isolation shot, it'll be fine, but its not really what I was looking for overall. I'll probably grab a single light box shot of each pen just for the isolation.
I am going to go with some themes here. I've got the warmer theme with the lamp you have seen, and a cooler theme for some of my pens which are chrome and more on the bluer side of the spectrum. I'll share a photo of one of those pens shortly here.
I am going to go with some themes here. I've got the warmer theme with the lamp you have seen, and a cooler theme for some of my pens which are chrome and more on the bluer side of the spectrum. I'll share a photo of one of those pens shortly here.
moke
Member
Good job....you can never have too much stuff! Remember tho----it's a tent, not a box