Looks vs. Function

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vakmere

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Looks vs Function

Just my observations, not intended to be taken out of context.

I see lots of handsome pens here on this forum. I originally did lots of slim line and trim line with my own sculpting to them. I went for ergonomics with looks and better refills than what came with the kit and they worked out. People liked the way they felt in their fingers. I noticed that many if not 99% of you are doing Majestic's, Areos, Bullets, Fountains, Atrix, Vertex, Stratus, and others not mentioned. So I bought one of each, used a blank that complimented the plating and finish.

I polled 5 coworkers, two of them being department managers. I would hand them my custom trimline and a higher end (either a Majestic, Wall St, Stratus, Vertex, Bullet) pen and ask to use them for the day. All had the same opinion at the end.

What they didnt like on the high end kits: The shiny ones were slippery, the Bullet was top heavy and awkward, the Majestic was too heavy and not something you take to work to use other than to show it off, Wall St just uncomfortable overall, Stratus and Vertex a definite no. All my coworkers were impressed by the looks but none of them would buy one only because they were (A) too expensive to have sitting on a desk doing nothing, (B) didn't feel the pen was comfortable. I then asked would they buy one for $25 they all said no.
What they liked: the simpler more useful slimline-trimline, two with my trumpet bell at the nib, and the comfort grip pen (especially the acrylic) rather than the gaudy fat unbalanced ones with exotically named blanks made of materials only pen makers are familiar with.

Certainly there is a wow factor amongst us when we post creatively done pens. I can almost hear the Tim Allen caveman grunts by the comments.

In my world I can't write with looks. There has to besome practicality to it. To the sales orientated folks as long as it sells that's a plus. $600 for a pen? Congratulations. You hit the jackpot. People with money to burn don't care as long as they buy that pen nobody else has. It all depends on what market you are catering to I guess.

When you live among the $2.99 for a 10 pack of BIC crowd like I do there is a world of difference between what I see and read on this forum as opposed to the world I see around me every day. If they are going to drop $20 on a pen it's a big deal and has to be useful, look cool, and write well.

Photos show the ones they really liked. The red one piece, the comfort grip acrylic and Buckeye burl sold that afternoon. All sold for $20.
Whick makes me wonder, I offered up the Majestic for $25 and they said no.......
 

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I would agree with your market research as to what people won`t like about the ones you gave them to try versus the ones you sold . However , it might be worthwhile to see what they would pay for a pen that is comfortable to use - maybe $50 , not $20 ??
 
In the big picture I tend to mostly agree with you. But every year I sell thousands of pens in the categories your small test group found to be impractical and not worth $25. I also sell a few hundred of the types they found to be more desirable. When you can buy pens 12/$2.99, a $20 pen is a luxury product.

Your test group may be representative of the population in general, they are probably not representative of the shoppers who attend the art fairs and fine art shows where I sell. I'm comfortable in well worn jeans and an old t-shirt most of the time, but when I'm out selling in my day job I wear designer suits. I'm comfortable driving my 17 year old Honda most of the time, but when I'm picking up a client I rent a new luxury car. I'm comfortable writing with a pen I picked up free at a trade show, but if I'm meeting with a client for him to sign a high value sales contract, I will have a unique high end pen along and I'll probably give it to him after he signs.

The point is that with pens or most any non commodity there is a market for purely functional and a market for luxury as well as everything between. If function and price were all that mattered it would be impossible to compete with pens that sell for $0.98.

I don't sell pens, I sell image. I sell the means for people to demonstrate in a subtle yet impactful way they they have a sense of style and appreciation for finer things. In some situations that is priceless.
 
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The point is that with pens or most any non commodity there is a market for purely functional and a market for luxury as well as everything between. If function and price were all that mattered it would be impossible to compete with pens that sell for $0.98.

I don't sell pens, I sell image. I sell the means for people to demonstrate in a subtle yet impactful way they they have a sense of style and appreciation for finer things. In some situations that is priceless.


Well put.
 
I find that the majority of the pens I sell are for gifts( Christmas, Graduation, Promotions. Retirement, Birthday, etc ). The people are typically looking to give something that the person might not purchase for themselves as as Casper said, something that shows " a sense of style and appreciation for finer things".

I have nothing against the slimline and trimline pens but I try to only use the better platings. I want my customers to come back and purchase more, not come back to tell me the plating has worn off there pen in a few months.
 
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I find that the majority of the pens I sell are for gifts( Christmas, Graduation, Promotions. Retirement, Birthday, etc ). The people are typically looking to give something that the person might not purchase for themselves as as Casper said, something that shows " a sense of style and appreciation for finer things".

I have nothing against the slimline and trimline pens but I try to only use the better platings. I want my customers to come back and purchase more, not come back to tell me the plating has worn off there pen in a few months.

I can agree however I dont know who carries a Broadwell Art Deco in their shirt pocket and use it every day like one would use a slimline or a Papermate. For research I am taking different pens to work each week. I do maintenance work and in my workshirt pocket this week is a Wall St 2 and a trimline acrylic. The Wall St is getting a little erroded whereas the trimline is also. Which one should I leave home? Perhaps leaving the Wall St home would be best. A lawyer or business person who keeps a high end pen on his desk and rarely if ever leaves the office with it will never wear out.
A pen can make a statement about you but also a really nice pen that is fun to use, cool to look at, affordably priced, and fits like nice gloves is just as rewarding.

I have also found that some folks wont treat themselves to something like a nice pen we we make for various reasons. But they will buy overpriced movie tickets and then spen $30 on a large popcorn and soda at the same theater. None of which they can take home with them after the movie is over.
 
My problem is I'm a $100+ pen maker in a $1 pen market!:mad: I love the elegance of a beautiful, burl Gent, or a flashy, chatoyant Majestic, but I know I would never pay what I ask for them...:eek: Oh, and anyone who has Majestics for sale at $25, let me know!!!:biggrin::biggrin:
 
My problem is I'm a $100+ pen maker in a $1 pen market!:mad: I love the elegance of a beautiful, burl Gent, or a flashy, chatoyant Majestic, but I know I would never pay what I ask for them...:eek: Oh, and anyone who has Majestics for sale at $25, let me know!!!:biggrin::biggrin:

I do. I have three of them. Yours for 25 each. I take paypal. Let's see where this goes.
 
I do believe that beauty and function are not exclusive of each other. What you need to do is decide what you want to do. Are you in this to make money? If so, the fancier kits will command a higher price. But if you want to spread some joy, the joy of using a wonderful pen that feels good and looks good, even though you don't make much off of it, then you might already be making the pens you should be making. And, in a pinch, you can do both.

Scott.
 
Well, some interesting responses and all are factual. Some of you are interested in snapping up my Majestic Squires for $25 a piece. You guys know the value however you are making my point for me. The regular guy wont know the difference between Rhodium, Titanium, Einsteinium, or Blahminium.
My study is revealing what it's worth to whoever is looking at it, looks and writability, what is in the wallet, and/or how they feel about owning a little luxury as one poster put it. My group of folks want a good deal also. I also noticed it's depending on ones own image of themselves. I'm dealing with paycheck to paychek people, not millionaires. A woman will buy a $200 bracelet to be worn twice maybe 3 times a year but a nice upscale $30 or $50 pen for every day use will not be high on the list. A $15 Slimline in a cool looking acrylic will.
I'm not here to unload pens but being the bait was put on the hook it seems I attracted some fish. So here are the photos of 3 of my Majestic Squires in Ironwood, Maple Burl,and Bocote. Gld&Chrome TN - Gold TN& BlackTN. Do you cary a Majestic in your shirt pocket right now? Not likely. I couldnt get $25 for the Bocote but got $20 for a red acrylic one piece using parts from a slimline kit. Go figure.
 

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I carry a Liberty pen in my pocket, which IMO is at least equivalent to a majestic squire in quality if not bling. At work I also have a Big Ben (Cigar style) I received as a PITH pen that gets a lot of use.

If your market goes for the slims and trims, that is what you should make, or find some other markets to sell in. Too many people think pen prices are set by the cost to produce the pen. The real price is set by what your particular market is willing to pay, and that can vary a lot depending on what venues you choose to sell in.
 
I carry a Liberty pen in my pocket, which IMO is at least equivalent to a majestic squire in quality if not bling. At work I also have a Big Ben (Cigar style) I received as a PITH pen that gets a lot of use. If your market goes for the slims and trims, that is what you should make, or find some other markets to sell in. Too many people think pen prices are set by the cost to produce the pen. The real price is set by what your particular market is willing to pay, and that can vary a lot depending on what venues you choose to sell in.

My two regular use pens are a cigar and a liberty. I think more are very nice and very practical.
 
Looks vs. Function Results

After 2 weeks of this I find my group likes function first with price, looks and feel. A simple handmade pen for the regular guy. Lightweight, gripable, and cool looking. Also something they can keep in their shirt pocket that doesn't weigh too much. All wood or all acrylic slim or trimline appears to have appeal to the working man, security guard, office person.
The Majestic Squires were not a fan favorite - some said "too gaudy, heavy, and slippery". I tend to agree. I couldn't get 20 bucks for it. The bullet pen fared the same in useability. You all may be getting big bucks for them however as an everyday use writing instrument they just dont do it.
Bottom line? Who cares if they use it, as long as they buy it. Not so with my group. They would pay $400 for a cell phone or an IPad before they would a $100 pen. Why? Thats just the way it is.
 
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How much are you getting for your slims / trims?

$15. $20 with the matching keyring. At this point I'd rather sell more for less than none for more.

Funny, on page one of this thread someone asked "anyone who has Majestics for sale at $25, let me know!!!:biggrin::biggrin: "

I did, never heard back. :wink:
 

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All valid points, but there are a good percentage of my sales are people buying pens to give as presents. That's where they buy because it's unique, has pretty grain, is a certain color, etc.
But the ones that buy for themselves do take their time; feel the pen, write with it, "connect" with it. They are particular because they will be using it on a daily basis OR want to make an impression of who they are. Someone who hunts will be looking at the the bullet and antler pens whether they're comfortable to write with or not. A distinguished older gentleman will be looking at higher end fountain or rollerball pens.
One of the first questions to ask when someone approaches your table is "are you looking for yourself or for someone else." Many times I get "oh, what do you have in purple? she just loves the color purple." Once we look at the purples, it's time to compare prices. Rarely do they consider practicality; sometimes, but not often.
We tend to spend money more freely (or carelessly) on others and are more frugal buying something for ourselves.
 
$15. $20 with the matching keyring. At this point I'd rather sell more for less than none for more. Funny, on page one of this thread someone asked "anyone who has Majestics for sale at $25, let me know!!!:biggrin::biggrin: " I did, never heard back. :wink:

That's the problem. Sure they love a slim pen for $15. Problem is it takes the same time as the cigar or roller I make $40 off of.

I've found that the vast amount of sales are for gifts rather than utility pens anyway.

I'm the opposite of you (which is simply a difference of opinion not any criticism.)

I'd rather sell none for more then more for less. :-)
 
I kind of fall in Dan's camp. I can sell the heck of slim/trim lines and slimline stylus, BUT it's very time consuming and frankly gets pretty boring after awhile. Sure I can make a little different shape/finish or whatever, but it's still 2 blanks and time for a small margin. $15 is the most I can get for slims.
Whereas with mid to higher end pens, you probably spend the same amount of time with a higher return.
Like Dan, not a criticism, because that's how I started out. And everyone has a different market to work with.
 
I agree with pretty much everything vakmere is saying. I live in a fairly affluent area with no shortage of luxury homes and items, and I sell alot of cigar pens for $30 but almost no high end pens which I do have plenty for sale. I personally use to carry a WS II and after a while it actually hurt my hand wrighting with it, and have found my customers do not like them very much. So I make alot of cigar pens and pill holder key chains which I sell almost every day. Much rather focus on the quick nickel than a slow dime.

Thats just my 2 cents!
 
$15. $20 with the matching keyring. At this point I'd rather sell more for less than none for more. Funny, on page one of this thread someone asked "anyone who has Majestics for sale at $25, let me know!!!:biggrin::biggrin: " I did, never heard back. :wink:

That's the problem. Sure they love a slim pen for $15. Problem is it takes the same time as the cigar or roller I make $40 off of.

I've found that the vast amount of sales are for gifts rather than utility pens anyway.

I'm the opposite of you (which is simply a difference of opinion not any criticism.)

I'd rather sell none for more then more for less. :-)

How do you sell none for more? :confused: Rather hang on to it until you get your asking price?

Point is Looks vs. Function. I believe in my area looks and function along with a reasonable price is key. Outside of us pen turners the common person has no idea what we pay for a kit, be it titanium or 24K gold, nor what is involved in producing the finished product. They are used to picking up a BIC off of a desk and dont care if they loose it. Today 2 guards I spoke with had no clue what a Majestic Squire was until I showed them. I said I'll take $25 for mine. The went online and saw the same Majestic Squires on ETSY from $40 to $99. The eyes opened and a different perspective was evident. Regardless, like a gentleman wrote on this post, buying for yourself is different than buying for someone else hence if for yourself then it has to fit. My new motto after all this? "If it dont write then it aint right".
If $20 bucks for a handmade pen is too much then what is Mont Blanc doing that we aint? $1,135 for a pen? Absurd I say...... but somone will buy it.... some year.
 
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Your slimlines are beautiful. Why not use your talent for creating special (fun to turn pens with a Wow factor). It's the difference between a Timex and a Rolex -- they both work but the Rolex has the Wow factor. You eliminated the Vertex and Stratus -- I have a Vertex on my desk and it is the best writing pen I have. It has good proportion and a great grip. That being said, you do make a good point about what people will buy.
Best regards,
Ed N.
 
I would have different prices on the same component. Upgrade the blanks, segment or just a wow factor. You won't make more if you don't give your customers a choice.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
How much are you getting for your slims / trims?

$15. $20 with the matching keyring. At this point I'd rather sell more for less than none for more.

Funny, on page one of this thread someone asked "anyone who has Majestics for sale at $25, let me know!!!:biggrin::biggrin: "

I did, never heard back. :wink:

I love your key rings. We wouldn't sell those alone for less than thirty bucks.

That being said, one of the important things to selling your stuff at better price is location. If your market won't accept a higher price, your choices are to accept the price you can get, find a better marker, or stop selling.

Only you can make that decision.
 
They would have probably said no to a $25 MontBlanc if they aren't a pen buyer.

I think vakmere's comments pretty well describe the general public and it was interesting to read the results. Most would never consider paying $20 for a pen. And virtually none will own a custom pen already. They have probably never given or received a pen as a gift. I am not willing to supply this market, because they don't really appreciate the pen, and aren't likely to flaunt it and help me sell more pens. I don't think it is about the money - they don't have the bug. I show my pens to one friend and they go nuts and another just says "that's nice" no price was discussed.

If they own a MontBlanc (gateway drug) of if they have more than one pen that cost greater than $20, then price is not an obstacle, within reason, and I likely have a prospect.:smile:
 
Venue

You are in a 15 to 20 dollar venue.

What a ready, willing and able buyer will pay a ready, willing and able seller with no other factor putting pressure on either.

You can probably sell lots of pens at $20, an occasional pen at $30 and virtually none at $50. You might be able to go 10 miles down the road and double your price.
 
They would have probably said no to a $25 MontBlanc if they aren't a pen buyer.

I think vakmere's comments pretty well describe the general public and it was interesting to read the results. Most would never consider paying $20 for a pen. And virtually none will own a custom pen already. They have probably never given or received a pen as a gift. I am not willing to supply this market, because they don't really appreciate the pen, and aren't likely to flaunt it and help me sell more pens. I don't think it is about the money - they don't have the bug. I show my pens to one friend and they go nuts and another just says "that's nice" no price was discussed.

If they own a MontBlanc (gateway drug) of if they have more than one pen that cost greater than $20, then price is not an obstacle, within reason, and I likely have a prospect.:smile:

Harry is right. We must remember this thread is about looks and function not about sales and marketing although one helps the other.
I have been a pen addict for years, got into turning in January 2014 by accident when I bought a lathe for my friend for Christmas. Why buy a pen from Staples or Office Max when I can make my own that feels good in the hand, looks cool, writes well.
Somehow turning became addicting and like many others here wound up with accounts to several kit suppliers, spending all day in the shop making pens. I sold some to friends and family, never did a table anywhere. I just like to make these things and custom fitting to my fingers became an interest. Like the 4 pictured that is what I'm finding most elders like because of the grip. My index finger fits right into the curve and can be done in any material. Another big factor in my design is I went to Catholic school where the nuns (when they weren't beating us) had us practicing penmanship from the 1st grade on with something called a Palmer pen. Some of you may be familiar. Hence the style I mainly do. I have not seen anyone here do this type. Maybe I'll start a trend and soon we will all be able to write legibly...lol
If the pen don't fit you must acquit.
 

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