Looking for advice on this lathe

[jamesfl]

I am about to pull the trigger on this lathe, https://www.toolots.com/weiss-variable-speed-7-14-benchtop-brushless-metal-lathe-digital.html from there.

Does anyone have any experience or advice about the lathe or site?

James -

 

[magpens]

@jamesfl

That lathe has every appearance of being made in the mainland China factory that makes the "Sieg line" of lathes which appear, with slight variations, in many places under different ..... for lack of a better word ....., "brand" names. . I do not actually know the origin of the name "Sieg", which appears nowhere on the outside of the lathe, but sometimes appears on the printed circuit board inside the cover of the control panel.

For pen work, these lathes seem to be perfectly adequate. . I have been using one for over 10 years and have made about 3000 pens.
It is starting to show its age, in the sense that the cross-feed mechanisms are getting loose.

But overall, I have no complaints.

However, do not expect to machine hard metals like steel with this lathe. . It is fine for brass and aluminum ... and, of course, the woods and plastic materials that we commonly use for pens.

Accessories for the lathe are readily available at ..... littlemachineshop.com ..... and some other places.

I have no experience with this particular website that is advertising this lathe.

 

[jamesfl]

Thanks Mal

I've been looking at this for a while now and I have an LMS purchase plan. I'm looking at the 5100 HiTorque 7 X 16 and the 4116 tooling package. I just want to be sure I'm getting the most lathe I can for the 1700 price tag.

I'm thinking the Weiss lathe is as okay as any of them in this range. But what about upgrades and replacement parts for the Weiss?

I don't know the exact metal(s) I want to use with the pens. I would like to be able to work with aluminum and brass for sure. However, I might want to try stainless steel for example, or maybe damascus steel, and don't want to limit myself.

The only difference (on paper) I see, the Weiss is 2 inches shorter. I would still get the tool package from LMS. I would be saving about 600. But I would happily spend that 600 if it saves me on costly repairs, hard-to-find parts, and upgrades.

 

[Carl Fisher]

If you can foot the price difference, you'll be MUCH happier in the long run with the 16" variant. The 14" really only gives you about 8-10" of workable distance between centers and once you add a drill chuck and standard length drill bits you're quickly out of room. I started in the metal lathe world with a 7x14 and it wasn't long before I was dumping money on a 16" upgrade to get the longer bed. I'm not saying the 7x14 isn't workable as I made a few hundred pens on it before I upgraded but just be aware of the tight quarters.

Either way, almost all of the 7x lathes are the same from the headstock perspective. The only big differences are control placement and the tailstock and bed length...oh and paint.

 

[magpens]

I agree with Carl that a longer lathe bed is better.

The 7 x lathes come with a 3" 3-jaw chuck. . I much prefer a 4" 4-jaw chuck because .... well there are several reasons. . And the 4" chuck eats up more room, shortening the space for your work piece ....

.... the point is, as Carl said, by the time you mount a Jacobs chuck in your tailstock , with a jobber length drill bit, you are eating up more room.

So if you can afford the extra length for a 16", it is well worth spending for it.

OK .... so why the 4" 4-jaw chuck ...... main reason is the larger throat diameter. . I like to be able to drill blanks on the lathe after first rounding them.
It seems that the "usual" blanks you buy from just about any source round to a diameter of between 0.7" to about 0.85". . Well that is too big for a 3" chuck. . A 4" chuck for the 7 x lathe will give you a throat diameter of about 0.86", comfortable for the "usual" rounded pen blank.
Another reason for the 4" 4-jaw chuck is, well, the 4 jaws !! ..... I just like the 4-fold symmetry of a 4-jaw chuck !! ... you can turn it by hand and know when you have turned through 90*, 180*, etc. . . . I often find that helpful.
Yet another reason for 4-jaws is this ..... most blanks you buy are 4-sided .... so you can grip a short blank with 4 sides fairly nicely in a 4-jaw chuck.
It is true that it won't go in very far, but usually it is far enough that you can do something with it .... like drill the axial hole for a Sierra pen without first rounding the blank.

So there are several good reasons, as one of your first accessories, to upgrade your 7 x lathe chuck to 4" 4-jaw.

 

[magpens]

Thanks Mal

I've been looking at this for a while now and I have an LMS purchase plan. I'm looking at the 5100 HiTorque 7 X 16 and the 4116 tooling package. I just want to be sure I'm getting the most lathe I can for the 1700 price tag.

I'm thinking the Weiss lathe is as okay as any of them in this range. But what about upgrades and replacement parts for the Weiss?

I don't know the exact metal(s) I want to use with the pens. I would like to be able to work with aluminum and brass for sure. However, I might want to try stainless steel for example, or maybe damascus steel, and don't want to limit myself.

The only difference (on paper) I see, the Weiss is 2 inches shorter. I would still get the tool package from LMS. I would be saving about 600. But I would happily spend that 600 if it saves me on costly repairs, hard-to-find parts, and upgrades.

@jamesfl

If you don't want to have limitations then ...... bite the bullet and buy a bigger lathe with a more powerful motor.

If you know you want to turn steel of any kind, then don't buy a Sieg lathe. . . You will be frustrated ..... I guarantee it.

Upgrades ? ..... what kind of upgrades ? ......... Replacement parts ? . I think you can get just about any accessories and (probably) spares at LMS.

With regard to the tool package that you mentioned ..... I am not familiar with the specifics of what you get in the tool package. . Run it by me.
My experience with buying "packages" is that you usually get at least some stuff that you don't want and will never use. . It's a marketing ploy.
I believe it is better to buy the specific things that you want and know that you will use them.

EDIT: . OK, I checked out the tool package you mentioned. . Couple of comments. . Those cutting tools are not much good. . . You should get Rick Herrel (member here) to make you a tool that holds a round carbide cutter of about 11 mm or 12 mm diameter ( replacement cutters readily available at Global Tools in Oregon ). . Those triangular cutters are next to useless .... break on the first cut in my experience.
And another thing ..... the Quick Change tool post is maybe OK, but I have never felt the need for such. . . I just buy extra standard tool posts and shim up my cutting tools to suit my purposes. . . I hate fiddling around with those vertical screw adjustments on the Quick Change. . More trouble than worth. . Also, with that Quick Change ..... you are getting stuff you won't ever use. . Spend your money on buying extra standard tool posts.
Another thing ..... you don't need 5 center bits .... wasted money .... buy one of the next to smallest size and that will do you.
Finally .... I see no use for that long boring bar.

So what are you left with ? . The cut-off blade and the Jacobs chuck with arbor ... you can buy the two of those for $40 or less.

 

[darrin1200]

Opening caveat, I am not a machinist and am learning all this stuff.
I would agree with getting the longest lathe you can afford and would suggest 16" as a minimum. LMS has a very good reputation and, from what I have heard, excellent customer service.

I would have to respectfully disagree with @magpens. A quick change tool post is a fantastic asset once you start using it. Especially with what we do, and the amount of time we are switching out cutters. Once you have a cutter dialled in exactly where you want it, it is great to just great to just swap it out knowing that it will be exactly where it needs to be each time. I am actually planning on picking up a few more holders for my set up.
I also use the triangular cutters all the time and have had no difficulty. Different shaped cutters can be better at some cuts than others. I find that the quality of the cutter of the cutter will have a bigger effect on durability.

If you can afford a few dollars more, I would recommend going up to the 7350, as it also includes 3 axis digital readout. Because it also comes with a quick change toolpost, you can get away with the cheaper tool kit that doesn't include the toolpost.

I hope I'm not muddying the waters for you. But summing it up. I don't think the weiss lathe will work for you in the long run. It is well worth the extra for the LMS, for the size and the reputation and experience. As for the DRO. Pretty well every pen maker I know, that is doing this successfully in the bespoke market, either has DRO or wishes they did and are currently saving for it. Just my two cents.

 

[jamesfl]

This is all really great advice. Thanks everyone.

I'm now taking a harder look at the 8x16 lathes on eBay. It seems no matter what 7x 14 or 7x 16 you buy there is work to get it cleaned, deburred, and aligned. I might as well move up a notch and get something bigger so hopefully, I can work with the metals I mentioned above. In addition at eBay prices, I could still afford to add DRO as Darrin mentioned.