Living off the grid

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would love to live off the power grid.
But where I live it would be to expensive.

It would cost me about 70k to put in a solar system to run my house and to upgrade some appliances.
 
I had an estimate done this fall, 45k set up. It would only allow us about 80% off the grid since we don't have perfect sun all the time. It would require us to cut some trees down as well as our neighbors (which I know they wont go for) So needless to say we are not going to go for it.
 
I would love to do it also, but unless you are building from scratch its hard to get the efficiencies you really need. Your walls should really be super insulated for example if you can't take advantage of thermal mass walls.

Even if you can't go totally off grid, there are definitely things that you can do to reduce your use.

The other thing is every house can go off grid simply by putting a whole house generator in, but it not typically the idea that people are after when they think "off grid". Depending on the full source, it may be cheaper than the grid costs.
 
Actually, there is unit that uses Natural gas converts it into hydrogen and that ends up becoming Electricity. How much for the contraption?, I have not a clue.
 
I can remember when I was growing up, no AC, no cell phones, no TV, and a lot of other things that today we call necessities. I have a cabin on our ranch, we have electricity, no cable, no cell service, no TV. No AC no central heat, just a wood stove for when it is really cold. The electric appliances include a refrigerator, a slow cooker, everything else is cooked out side on the grill or smoker. When we spend quite a bit of time there, the electric bill is about $20. That is as far off the grid as I want.
 
My wife and I have been looking into it for several years, a house came up that is setup with solar panels for 10 months out of the year and an 8K diesel genset, both of these power 2 battery storage banks, wood stove for heat, propane stove, hot water heater, dryer and refrig. Most of the people I have talked with dont use things like a TV or power tools so my question was can you use power tools, TV and the like on a limited basis, I know you could running the genset but could you run them for any length on the converter? Oh and even though I am only 38 I was raised without many of the "luxuries"! We did have running water and flush toilets and electricity.
 
I'm not off the grid *sigh*, but I keep up with the various technologies and whatnot as best I can. A combination Solar/Wind power system can do a darned good job and are less than you think. Solar water heater for house and water (obviously) heating is easy and pretty cheap, it's just a closed PVC loop with some black spray paint (ok, I know I oversimplified this, but you get the idea)

That will reduce a bit the cost of photovoltaic solar system to cover the rest. And you can find DIY ready to go kits a number of places that have EVERYTHING but batteries.

And a wind turbine....well, Fry's Electronics is now carrying a variety of turbines up to 7 or 800 watts I think, and can order larger. the 800 watt was like 1500 bucks or something, and if you know what your doing a few of those around your property can do a substantial job.

The rest is just a matter of how much revamping do you need/want to do? need a new fridge/freezer? Don't buy a combo, buy a chest freezer..... cold air doesn't spill out when you open it. If you hunt around you can find horizontal ice boxes too.... same principal. Solar light tubes for task lighting indoors during the day. Upgrade them with LED modules for low power light from the same fixture at night.

Little Franklin stove in the corner and ..... well...... I think EVERYONE here knows where to get wood:)

I could go on forever, but I won't. I just enjoy rambling.

Oh, some links:

http://www.frys.com/product/6367571?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

http://www.solarhome.org/

http://www.electroluxappliances.com/kitchen-appliances/refrigeration/refrigerationdrawer

http://www.goodtimestove.com/heating_stoves/antique_stoves_potbelly.html
 
dogcatcher said:
I can remember when I was growing up, no AC, no cell phones, no TV, and a lot of other things that today we call necessities. I have a cabin on our ranch, we have electricity, no cable, no cell service, no TV. No AC no central heat, just a wood stove for when it is really cold. The electric appliances include a refrigerator, a slow cooker, everything else is cooked out side on the grill or smoker. When we spend quite a bit of time there, the electric bill is about $20. That is as far off the grid as I want.
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Farthest off the grid not including Army Training.
About 20 odd years ago went hunting in the upper peninsula with a few friends. The Cabin we used didn't have Electricity. there was a only a wood stove and hurricane lamps. and let me not forget the Latrine 20 yards away from the back side of the Cabin. However it did have a Refrigerator that ran on Gasoline.
 
Unless you're talking about living in the wilderness or the mountains, I don't see what the appeal is to living disconnected from utility power. Who cares? If it's about being environmental, then there's steps you can do that would have a greater impact for the money than investing in $45-$70-++++++ in solar power...

But that's just my opinion.
 
I lived off the grid when I was a boy when I was sent to my grandmother during the summer. She didn't get electricity until 1961 in KY. It was probably some of the best times of my life! No electricity, indoor plumbing or water. There is a great BBC sitcom about living off the grid called "The Good Neighbors" It was shown in the US under a different name.
 
BigguyZ said:
Unless you're talking about living in the wilderness or the mountains, I don't see what the appeal is to living disconnected from utility power. Who cares? If it's about being environmental, then there's steps you can do that would have a greater impact for the money than investing in $45-$70-++++++ in solar power...

But that's just my opinion.
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No hydro bills ($150 +++ per month) and environmentally friendly. I know there are setup costs but if building or buying you consider that in the overall cost. If you plan to stay in that place for a very long time it would pay for itself and resale would be great as I think it is going to be the way of the future. Prices will come down now that it is becoming more popular just like electronics do.
 
BigguyZ said:
Unless you're talking about living in the wilderness or the mountains, I don't see what the appeal is to living disconnected from utility power. Who cares? If it's about being environmental, then there's steps you can do that would have a greater impact for the money than investing in $45-$70-++++++ in solar power...

But that's just my opinion.
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utility prices. by going off grid, some actually sell back to the grid, you can reduce the utility costs greatly. The systems can pay for themselves in some cases.
 
I guess it has a lot to do with location. A couple or 3 years ago, a local electrical cooperative teamed up with a energy efficiency expert here and they spent around $85K outfitting a new home with solar and wind power to compare savings between an environmental friendly home and a regular energy efficient homes that the expert already teaches how to build... the test ran for a year and when they figured the average solar and wind power they managed to generate over that period of time, it amounted to enough power to run 3 hair dryers for a few (I think 4) hours each day. The payback was virtually nonexistent, and any way you cut it, you'd still have to to be wired to the grid or be happy to live in the luxury equivalent of a cave.
 
When I lived in New Mexico there were quite a few wind Turbines and several ways to heat a home, BUT most of those places were specifically constructed to take advantage of New Mexico's abundant sun shine. The homes were constructed out of Adobe Bricks that had been stabilized with asphaltum to prevent water erosion, and things like live floors, Solar water heat and Trombe walls meant that with a small "Horno" fireplace a home could be kept at a very comfortable temperature, and at the time the Power company was required to purchase any extra power you were able to provide. A Trombe wall is an ingenious setup, it involve a large pane of glass as the exterior wall with an air space between it and the actual wall, sort of like a large picture window, this is enclosed in a box about 18 to 24 inches in depth and the entire inside is painted or tared black, The window facing south generates a great deal of heat which is circulated by a number of small fans like computer fans and blows the warm air into the living space through holes in the interior adobe wall. Of course there are caps to stop the hot air in the summer as well as a screen/ drape that reflects the heat back out side. The live floors are way cool! water is circulated under the floor and the floors are most commonly either terrazo or brick, which is sitting bedded on several inches of well packed sand , and this is heated by the solar water panels on the roof. I'm not sure about these days but back in the early 80s New Mexico was leading the way in Solar technology, and actually had been for several hundred years. The Pueblo Indians just didn't have a real name for it and no government grants either. I wish we had more dependable amount of lumen's here, but there are too many very cloudy days, I've thought about solar water heating, and have the roof for it and it faces south, since even on semi cloudy days water in collector boxes will get to 120 or so .
 
Ahead of my time

I was born in a house with no electricity, no indoor plumbing and no central heat. There was an outhouse (three holer), a dug well, and a wood burning cook stove in the kitchen. Kerosine lamps were used for lighting. It was also equipped with bed chamber pots to take care of night calls.

No TV, no Radio, no computers, no refrigerators (although there was an ice box) no electric irons or hair dryers, no electric wood lathes or saws or drill presses....

I the 40s and 50s I lived across the street from a house with the same setup (actually two of them). Heated with a cook stove, drew water from a dug well, used kerosine lamps for lighting and had an outhouse for necessaries. There were also bed chamber pots.

Those folks didn't realize they were 50/60 years ahead of the times.

In reality...we are decended from people who until 140 or so years ago didn't even know what electricity was. Imagine between 5 and 10 thousnad years of human history, electricity not harnessed until about the last 140 and we can't exist without it.......
 
Smitty37 said:
I was born in a house with no electricity, no indoor plumbing and no central heat. There was an outhouse (three holer), a dug well, and a wood burning cook stove in the kitchen. Kerosine lamps were used for lighting. It was also equipped with bed chamber pots to take care of night calls.

No TV, no Radio, no computers, no refrigerators (although there was an ice box) no electric irons or hair dryers, no electric wood lathes or saws or drill presses....

I the 40s and 50s I lived across the street from a house with the same setup (actually two of them). Heated with a cook stove, drew water from a dug well, used kerosine lamps for lighting and had an outhouse for necessaries. There were also bed chamber pots.

Those folks didn't realize they were 50/60 years ahead of the times.

In reality...we are decended from people who until 140 or so years ago didn't even know what electricity was. Imagine between 5 and 10 thousnad years of human history, electricity not harnessed until about the last 140 and we can't exist without it.......
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Smitty,
Sounds like you and I were born in the same house... My parents lived in what was called a Tar paper shack... a small house covered on the outside with black tar paper... it was across the street from a local cemetery.

When I was born, my father road off on a horse to the local town to get the doctor who arrived in his model A.. he was almost too late..

I don't remember when we got electricity... I remember my grandmother's house being wired and electricity put in about 1949.. we moved to west Texas about then.. until we left the farm and moved to town in about 1953 we still didn't have electricity.
 
In the early 80's I would stay with my Aunt and Uncle ALOT, they had no phone, no power, and no running water although they had a cistern pump in the kitchen for the sink. So I am not totally new to the idea. The thought "could you or would you want to live without the modern conveniences", I ended up in the hospital at 37 with stress related heart problems because I worked so much so I could afford all those conveniences and then worry about if I worked enough to pay for them. So yes I can live without them.
 
burr said:
In the early 80's I would stay with my Aunt and Uncle ALOT, they had no phone, no power, and no running water although they had a cistern pump in the kitchen for the sink. So I am not totally new to the idea. The thought "could you or would you want to live without the modern conveniences", I ended up in the hospital at 37 with stress related heart problems because I worked so much so I could afford all those conveniences and then worry about if I worked enough to pay for them. So yes I can live without them.
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It may sound tempting, but I've become so accustomed to getting my news off the internet, and my wife would go totally bonkers without her TV... she turns it on the first thing when she get up in the morning, usually about an hour or so before I get up, and it goes until she goes to bed... mostly news broadcasts, but she does have her talk shows and girly shows... no soaps thank goodness... where we live we can't or at least don't get a news paper... there aren't any published around us.. closest real paper would have to come from either Chattanooga or Knoxville... while I would rather read a paper to TV news, I do like to know what's happening in and around the world.... I think I wouldn't like living "off the grid".... plus without electricity I couldn't run all my shop toys.
 
Andrew - there are several treadle lathe articles/drawings ranging from a very simple one with poppets on a workbench and a bunge cord return to some pretty well done with metal bearings and headstock shafts. Most do not spec out morse tapers, but if you are equipped with a metal lathe capability or have access to a machinist, or old headstocks, you can have those also.

Drop me an E-mail and I may be able to fix you up with more detailed info.

The best functioning one I have seen written up was developed in Machinist Workshop Vol 21 No 2 April May 2008 issue. The article describes and illustrates the building of one in the outback of Australia using a bunch of non-traditional metal for bearings and headstock. No electrons are used in the operation of the lathe.

I have some "traditional" designs hiding also. Those use minimum manufactures metal like sealed bearings.
 
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KenV said:
Andrew - there are several treadle lathe articles/drawings ranging from a very simple one with poppets on a workbench and a bunge cord return to some pretty well done with metal bearings and headstock shafts. Most do not spec out morse tapers, but if you are equipped with a metal lathe capability or have access to a machinist, or old headstocks, you can have those also.

Drop me an E-mail and I may be able to fix you up with more detailed info.

The best functioning one I have seen written up was developed in Machinist Workshop Vol 21 No 2 April May 2008 issue. The article describes and illustrates the building of one in the outback of Australia using a bunch of non-traditional metal for bearings and headstock. No electrons are used in the operation of the lathe.

I have some "traditional" designs hiding also. Those use minimum manufactures metal like sealed bearings.
Click to expand...

Best design I've seen used bicycle sprockets and a chain so that the lathe only spun in one direction, made it much easier to "master".
 
Russianwolf said:
KenV said:
Andrew - there are several treadle lathe articles/drawings ranging from a very simple one with poppets on a workbench and a bunge cord return to some pretty well done with metal bearings and headstock shafts. Most do not spec out morse tapers, but if you are equipped with a metal lathe capability or have access to a machinist, or old headstocks, you can have those also.

Drop me an E-mail and I may be able to fix you up with more detailed info.

The best functioning one I have seen written up was developed in Machinist Workshop Vol 21 No 2 April May 2008 issue. The article describes and illustrates the building of one in the outback of Australia using a bunch of non-traditional metal for bearings and headstock. No electrons are used in the operation of the lathe.

I have some "traditional" designs hiding also. Those use minimum manufactures metal like sealed bearings.
Click to expand...

Best design I've seen used bicycle sprockets and a chain so that the lathe only spun in one direction, made it much easier to "master".
Click to expand...

Speaking of, I also saw a "bicycle pedal" powered table saw a while back. Seems like it was someone on here who posted it...
Honestly if we're talking about not being sure of having the power to run power tools, it might be time to start looking into some non-power tool alternatives...
 
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