Jamie
Member
Is there an article on dipping blanks in lacquer somewhere?
Lacquer dipping
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Dario
Member
Not sure...I though I've seen one at Arizona Silhouette a long time ago.
I know a few dippers...Lyle (lwalden) and Billy (alamocdc) are on top of my list. Send them a message, maybe they can help you out.
I've seen Lyle's setup...and it is awesome. It is not cheap but very efficient. I've never seen so much sets of bushings in one place LOL.
I know a few dippers...Lyle (lwalden) and Billy (alamocdc) are on top of my list. Send them a message, maybe they can help you out.
I've seen Lyle's setup...and it is awesome. It is not cheap but very efficient. I've never seen so much sets of bushings in one place LOL.
Blind_Squirrel
Member
I didn't see one in the library here, but you can find one done by alamocdc here: http://www.thepenshop.net/dip.htm
alamocdc
Member
Here is a better write up of my method.
I've been questioned about my technique for dipping barrels in lacquer. First, this is not my technique. I got it from Russ Fairfield's pages referenced on our homepage. In short, I bought a few 3' lengths of 1/4" allthread and cut them to desired lengths... depending on the pens I turn. Make sure to add a few inches for insurance. When I first started this I also bought a number of different 1/4" fixtures: threaded inserts, nylon bushings, etc. to try and get a variety of widths to match the OD of the barrels being dipped. These are to be used as bushings/spacers above and below the barrels to allow the lacquer to flow smoothly down the assembly while it's drying. I now use pieces of Delrin (and other materials) turned step-wise to match the ID and OD of the barrels (this works better for keeping the lacquer out of the tubes on larger pens). Below is an Afzelia Burl Sierra barrel w/the first coat.
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The "gold" looking part is a threaded insert, and yes it's covered with lacquer that drained into the hole that it was standing in. I snug the nut down for either side. I use anything from long hexagonal threaded collars to nuts (usually just what I have available). This one just happened to be a nut. I've also turned dipping bushings/spacers using Delrin and even a short piece of 7mm tube glued into a variety of scrap.
<br />
Make sure the transition from the barrels to the spacers is as flush as possible. Otherwise you'll get a lip or bulge of lacquer at the bottom of each barrel. You can see such a bulge at the outside edge of the Delrin bushings shown above. The Delrin bushings have 1/4" holes drilled through them so I can mount them on the mandrel to turn them. Then I put them in the barrels and run the allthread through them. NOTE: If I'm using bushings other than those I've turned with a step and I'm not satisfied with the fit at the ends, I'll seal the tubes w/base plate wax.
Gently stir the lacquer and try to avoid creating bubbles. The rest is simple. All you do is dip the barrel/bushing assembly (allthread included) in the can of lacquer. I use the one quart size, but one gallon cans would work as well. I'm still using my first quart and have plenty left for many more pens so it doesn't really use that much. Let as much of the excess drain/drip back into the can to avoid waste and mess. Then I set them up to dry and cure. I use a 2x4 with holes drilled in it to accept the threaded insert I have on the bottom end of each assembly. After at least one hour, I'll dip the barrels again. If I'm happy w/the look of the second coat, I' l let the blank's cure for at least a week before wet sanding w/MM (starting at 3200) and applying TSW. Two coats is the exception, but more dense woods don't usually need more than two. For anything with even the slightest hint of open grain I will dip at least three times (usually 4), but I always try to apply at least two coats of CA, or Deft Sanding Sealer before removing the blank from the lathe. Before the 3rd and 4th dip I take the barrel/bushing assemblies off and flip them so that the thickness of the draining lacquer will be more evenly distributed. If you don't, the result will be barrels with more lacquer on the downward end of the barrels. It's not so much that you can see it with the naked eye, but you'll be able to tell after MMing. I've actually taken the finish back to wood by not doing this and using less than 3 coats. This means starting over.
This should be simple enough that all can understand. BTW, make sure you keep the barrels perpendicular to the earth's surface while drying. We have this thing called gravity that causes things not in the solid state to accumulate on the "low" side. The result would be a once concentric barrel that no longer is.
I've been questioned about my technique for dipping barrels in lacquer. First, this is not my technique. I got it from Russ Fairfield's pages referenced on our homepage. In short, I bought a few 3' lengths of 1/4" allthread and cut them to desired lengths... depending on the pens I turn. Make sure to add a few inches for insurance. When I first started this I also bought a number of different 1/4" fixtures: threaded inserts, nylon bushings, etc. to try and get a variety of widths to match the OD of the barrels being dipped. These are to be used as bushings/spacers above and below the barrels to allow the lacquer to flow smoothly down the assembly while it's drying. I now use pieces of Delrin (and other materials) turned step-wise to match the ID and OD of the barrels (this works better for keeping the lacquer out of the tubes on larger pens). Below is an Afzelia Burl Sierra barrel w/the first coat.
The "gold" looking part is a threaded insert, and yes it's covered with lacquer that drained into the hole that it was standing in. I snug the nut down for either side. I use anything from long hexagonal threaded collars to nuts (usually just what I have available). This one just happened to be a nut. I've also turned dipping bushings/spacers using Delrin and even a short piece of 7mm tube glued into a variety of scrap.
Make sure the transition from the barrels to the spacers is as flush as possible. Otherwise you'll get a lip or bulge of lacquer at the bottom of each barrel. You can see such a bulge at the outside edge of the Delrin bushings shown above. The Delrin bushings have 1/4" holes drilled through them so I can mount them on the mandrel to turn them. Then I put them in the barrels and run the allthread through them. NOTE: If I'm using bushings other than those I've turned with a step and I'm not satisfied with the fit at the ends, I'll seal the tubes w/base plate wax.
Gently stir the lacquer and try to avoid creating bubbles. The rest is simple. All you do is dip the barrel/bushing assembly (allthread included) in the can of lacquer. I use the one quart size, but one gallon cans would work as well. I'm still using my first quart and have plenty left for many more pens so it doesn't really use that much. Let as much of the excess drain/drip back into the can to avoid waste and mess. Then I set them up to dry and cure. I use a 2x4 with holes drilled in it to accept the threaded insert I have on the bottom end of each assembly. After at least one hour, I'll dip the barrels again. If I'm happy w/the look of the second coat, I' l let the blank's cure for at least a week before wet sanding w/MM (starting at 3200) and applying TSW. Two coats is the exception, but more dense woods don't usually need more than two. For anything with even the slightest hint of open grain I will dip at least three times (usually 4), but I always try to apply at least two coats of CA, or Deft Sanding Sealer before removing the blank from the lathe. Before the 3rd and 4th dip I take the barrel/bushing assemblies off and flip them so that the thickness of the draining lacquer will be more evenly distributed. If you don't, the result will be barrels with more lacquer on the downward end of the barrels. It's not so much that you can see it with the naked eye, but you'll be able to tell after MMing. I've actually taken the finish back to wood by not doing this and using less than 3 coats. This means starting over.
This should be simple enough that all can understand. BTW, make sure you keep the barrels perpendicular to the earth's surface while drying. We have this thing called gravity that causes things not in the solid state to accumulate on the "low" side. The result would be a once concentric barrel that no longer is.
dbriski
Member
When removing the blank from the bushings do you need to score it or anything at the joint or does it break cleanly off?
alamocdc
Member
David, Sometimes it will break cleanly, but sometiems not, so I always score the joint w/an exacto knife, or razor. I've also found that it helps to remove the lacquer between pens. This seems to help the separation.
Jamie
Member
Thank you!
lwalden
Member
Olive jars and pickle jars are the secret..... (those count as green vegetables, right?)
I'll get a couple of pics added later today, but my approach is very similar to Billy's (not surprising since they're both based on Russ Fairfields). Couple of differences- I generally use the same bushings I turn with for the lacquer dipping (though I did pick up some of Fangar's delrin blanks to modify for this purpose). As Dario commented, I have a lot of bushings- 20 sets for sierras, barons, and cigars, and 15 sets of most others. Like Billy, I use a piece of allthread (roughly 10" long) for the shaft- at the very top I have threaded the allthread into a small wood black (7/8" X 7/8") with a small eye screw threaded into the opposite end. I cut the blocks from several bland pen blanks. Under one of the upper cabinets in my shop I mounted a board approximately 30" long that I had screwed about 30 small cup hooks into. While dipping, I have a piece of wax paper doubled over below to catch the excess, and I hang the allthread rod with the small eyebolt on the cuphook. I use a tall olive jar for the lacquer dipping- gives me more height while useing less volume. This allows much easier dipping of long items like the artist sketch pencils without having to try and tilt the can at a crazy angle. I use Deft Lacquer, and cut it with lacquer thinner- roughly one part lacquer thinner to three parts lacquer. This can cut the time between coats to about thirty minutes, if it's warm and low humidity. When I load the blank on the allthread, I have a 1/4" nut about midway up un the allthread that serves as a stopping point. Slidding the blank with the bushings still on, I add a 1/4" flat washer and 1/4" nut to the bottom- threaded on just enough to be flush with the nut. I then use the top nut to tighten down finger tight- and have never had a problem with lacquer getting into the tube. As Billy pointed out, you want to avoid air bubbles. I've found that if I slowly remove the blank while dipping, a) any air bubbles will "catch" in the little wave of lacquer where the blank meets the upper surface of the liquid, and not be picked up in the finish, and that b) you end up with less excess lacquer dripping off and being wasted. The pickle jar comes in after the three or four coats of dipping- since I'm normally running anywhere from 10 to 25 barrels through at a time, that's a lot of bushings with lacquer build up. A pickle jar half full of acetone is where these end up, along with soaking the end of the allthread. In removing the bushings from the all-thread, I'll normally grasp the upper bushing and start unscrewing- so the lower nut, washer, and both bushings come off all at the same time with the blank. if the bushings dont come loose from the blank with just a gentle bit of rotation, I have my bench vise close by- snug the vise down to the bushing, give the blank a gentle wiggle left to right, and it pops loose with little effort. I've never had this effect the finish on the blank. I'll let the bushings, nut and washer soak in the acetone for a couple of hours, giving the jar a little swirl once or twice in the process, and then they're ready to be removed and dried off. I've sanded (wet sanding, slow speed) with micromesh starting at the 1800 grit, as soon as two days after dipping. I prefer to give it closer to a week, like Billy, when time allows.I believe the thinned lacquer results in quicker drying time.
I'll get a couple of pics added later today, but my approach is very similar to Billy's (not surprising since they're both based on Russ Fairfields). Couple of differences- I generally use the same bushings I turn with for the lacquer dipping (though I did pick up some of Fangar's delrin blanks to modify for this purpose). As Dario commented, I have a lot of bushings- 20 sets for sierras, barons, and cigars, and 15 sets of most others. Like Billy, I use a piece of allthread (roughly 10" long) for the shaft- at the very top I have threaded the allthread into a small wood black (7/8" X 7/8") with a small eye screw threaded into the opposite end. I cut the blocks from several bland pen blanks. Under one of the upper cabinets in my shop I mounted a board approximately 30" long that I had screwed about 30 small cup hooks into. While dipping, I have a piece of wax paper doubled over below to catch the excess, and I hang the allthread rod with the small eyebolt on the cuphook. I use a tall olive jar for the lacquer dipping- gives me more height while useing less volume. This allows much easier dipping of long items like the artist sketch pencils without having to try and tilt the can at a crazy angle. I use Deft Lacquer, and cut it with lacquer thinner- roughly one part lacquer thinner to three parts lacquer. This can cut the time between coats to about thirty minutes, if it's warm and low humidity. When I load the blank on the allthread, I have a 1/4" nut about midway up un the allthread that serves as a stopping point. Slidding the blank with the bushings still on, I add a 1/4" flat washer and 1/4" nut to the bottom- threaded on just enough to be flush with the nut. I then use the top nut to tighten down finger tight- and have never had a problem with lacquer getting into the tube. As Billy pointed out, you want to avoid air bubbles. I've found that if I slowly remove the blank while dipping, a) any air bubbles will "catch" in the little wave of lacquer where the blank meets the upper surface of the liquid, and not be picked up in the finish, and that b) you end up with less excess lacquer dripping off and being wasted. The pickle jar comes in after the three or four coats of dipping- since I'm normally running anywhere from 10 to 25 barrels through at a time, that's a lot of bushings with lacquer build up. A pickle jar half full of acetone is where these end up, along with soaking the end of the allthread. In removing the bushings from the all-thread, I'll normally grasp the upper bushing and start unscrewing- so the lower nut, washer, and both bushings come off all at the same time with the blank. if the bushings dont come loose from the blank with just a gentle bit of rotation, I have my bench vise close by- snug the vise down to the bushing, give the blank a gentle wiggle left to right, and it pops loose with little effort. I've never had this effect the finish on the blank. I'll let the bushings, nut and washer soak in the acetone for a couple of hours, giving the jar a little swirl once or twice in the process, and then they're ready to be removed and dried off. I've sanded (wet sanding, slow speed) with micromesh starting at the 1800 grit, as soon as two days after dipping. I prefer to give it closer to a week, like Billy, when time allows.I believe the thinned lacquer results in quicker drying time.
Pardon the crass commercial message, but dipping with lacquer is shown on my pen finishing video, available at
http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Video.html
It isn't much different from what has been described here.
http://www.woodturner-russ.com/Video.html
It isn't much different from what has been described here.
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