Kryo vs Hamlet 2030 & 2060 tools

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bjackman

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2004
Messages
506
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA.
So, I know quite a few of you picked up, and have been using some of these for at least a few months or maybe even a year now.
I'm looking at picking up a tool or two while at CSU/Provo and am wondering if some of the claims of edge/sharpness durability hold up to real world use.
Difference in prices on the three are not really worth worrying about, for me, by the time you amortize out the cost over the long life of a good tool.
What are your thoughts?
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
As I always say...if you can afford it, go for Glaser Hitec.

For a more affordable gouge...most of the surveyed pro/semi-pro turners in Sawmill Creek overwhelmingly agreed on Crown Pro-PM. BTW, some of them claimed to have tried all that you listed and more.
 
BTW, check Charles' site for great prices on crown tools http://www.woodchipshome.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=WC&Category_Code=CHT
 
I don't know about the Kryo, but I have (had) a couple of Hamlet 2060 spindle gouges and also a skew. All I can say is that the 2060 definitely last much longer, I'd say at least double as long as my standard Sorby gouges (number of pen-wise).
 
The Kyro name stems from the fact the steel has been through a cryogenic treatment. e.g. extreme cold temperatures. This method is used by a knife maker company called Cold Steel. On a woodworking forum I belong to there was quite a discussion by a knowledgeable person. Bottom line is that (reportedly) this treatment allows for a really tough steel that will hold and edge much longer than other steels. As for whether the considerable difference in cost is worth it is your decision. I look at it this way: If a $50.00 tool will last 20 years, why spend $130.00 on one that will last 50 years? Unless you are ten years old, it is a false economy.
 
Frank,

Believe it or not, some (production or just plain prolific) turners actually go through their gouge in just a couple of years. To those type of users/turners these higher end tools makes a real difference. For hobby/occassional turners like us...your calculation may apply.
 
I don't think the question should be how long does the tool last, but rather how much time is saved between sharpenings. If it takes 5-10 minutes to dig out the jig for the grinder on a gouge, and you have one lasting 2x or more as long between touch ups, the time does start to add up. In the course of a year, you could have several hours of time saved from sharpening. What is your time worth to you?

Plus, it's got a coolness/geek factor.[:D]
 
I'm curious to know what these harder tools do to your expensive grinding wheels. I guess if you have blue wheels it's less noticeable than if you have white wheels. They are friable, and the tougher the material you are grinding, the faster you wear out your wheels. Counterbalance that with the less grinding... Ok, someone do a scientific analysis and cost/benefit!!!
 
Rich,

Longer lasting edge (wear resistance) doesn't actually equate to metal hardness. I read that metal uniformity/consistency is much more critical actually. Thus the birth of powder metal.

An analogy is with burls...some wood may be stronger if they are solid compared to a harder wood with cracks and voids. Steel is the same...some wear/crack/chip easier than others (softer than they are).
 
The way I'm looking at it. If I sharpen now for each pen I make and can go four pens without sharpening with the new tool, (according to manuf. claims), that would be quite a bit more actual turning I could do.
Actually, the way I'm really looking at it, is looking at some tools I don't currently have, bowl gouges, scrapers, etc, and if I can get something that will hold it's edge 2, 3, 4 or more than hss that would very likely be worth some extra cost. Most of the tools I'm looking at are not double the price, so a little extra cost for what could be a higher quality tool works in my mind.
I was just hoping more people here would pipe up with actual first hand use/experience with these.
 
Dario - true, you are talking about the basic molecular alignment of the steel itself. A micro-crystalline structure, or at least a more uniform structure, is the result of kryo treatment, or any of the other more "advanced" metal treatments. What it really boils down to though is that any of these treatments are used to make the steel's structure more stable - i.e. tougher, more resistant to wear and deformation. So it would stand to reason that the more resistant to deformation the steel is, the more wear it will cause on the softer, more friable surface of a grinding wheel. Or am I all wet? [:D]
 
Rich,

Not sure, maybe others have the answer but in my observation, they sharpen just the same way. Whether they "eat" more of the grinder stone is unknown to me or atleast nothing that is noticeable as far as I am concerned.
 
Any good quality tool is just that. My all time favorite is the Crown Ellsworth PM Signature gouge. I use this tool from roughing to finish and many times start sanding at 220. It holds a good edge and sharpens easily. Sometimes I leave it in the freezer.[:D]
 
Jim, could you explain why you leave it in your freezer! I doubt that the temperature in your freezer will ever approach the temperatures of the cryogenic treatment. I would imagine that the coldness of the freezer would cause rusting and pitting as the cold metal would tend to accumulate moisture from the air once it was removed from the freezer and on it's way to the shop. Could you please elaborate a bit more as to the benefits of leaving it in the freezer? [:)]
 
When you have a "red hot tool", where else would it be safe to store it but in the freezer?


One of the little items that is not intuitive is that to grind tougher steel you need a softer grinding wheel. And I tend not to use my better quality (read higher price) grinding wheels for heavy shaping and removal of nicks.

As one who hones tools at the lathe, the better steels still touch up nicely, and I do more turning and less grinding. Depends on what you are intersted in.

A great gouge is made by Bob Sweazey of M42 high speed steel. I had one and gave it to my daughter than went back and ordered a couple more. You can get these with or without handles.
http://www.sweazeytools.com/index.html Bob is a very nice person to talk to and something of a detail picker in his work.
 
Originally posted by Dario
<br />Rich,

Not sure, maybe others have the answer but in my observation, they sharpen just the same way. Whether they "eat" more of the grinder stone is unknown to me or atleast nothing that is noticeable as far as I am concerned.
Click to expand...
The Powdered Metal is the only non m2 tools I have used. I love my PRO pm bowl gouge but I think I need to dress my grinding wheel more then I do with my m2 tools ( i.e. eats the wheel more). Now some other turners I know that have the PM tools say they do not notice extra wear on their grinding wheels.
 
I don't have either, but the cryogenic treatment is suppose to "relieve stress" in the metal by aligning the molecules, or something like that. The same process is used on the barrels of high end target rifles (even personal rifles if you have the money to spend) to improve accuracy. As a cryogenic treated gun barrel heats up it distorts less due to less stress in the metal.
 
The main benefit of the freezer is I place the tool right next to the ice cream![;)] Keeping your wheels trued up will really help your turning tools a lot. Consistency is important and if the tool is bouncing during the grinding process it is difficult to create a smooth, sharp and consistent edge. Without that catches are common and the tool reguardless of steel type will dull more quickly. Which leads to more sharpening and accellerated tool wear. (loss) I use the red wheel sold at Woodcraft (needed one in a hurry)60 grit.
 
Jim... Not that is the exact same reason I keep my CA glue in the shop cooler except I reach for the beer ... maybe later on I will "catch" myself getting the ice cream out. However, I will not drink my beer with the ice cream regardless of how good folks swear they go together.

Either way I do believe our reasoning is sound! [:D]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom