Just An Opinion If You Will?

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jimm1

jimm1

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Joined
Dec 30, 2006
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Thompson's Station, Tennessee, USA.
Suppose you have a product that you sell exclusively and you sell that product to someone. Then you find that exact product on ebay for almost twice as much as you sell it for.
Now I know that there are many resellers on IAP, but my guess is that is done with permission and contract. I think that is fine, no problems with that.
I am just wondering how others feel.
Moderators, if I am out of line asking for this opinion, please feel free to delete this thread at any time.
 
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Jim,

My opinion... Once you own something - you have the right to do whatever you want with it. Give it away, break it, modify it, sell it again. Now are you talking about copying a product or reselling?

You weren't clear if these were originals being resold or copies. If they are originals, I don't see a problem. If they are copies - then it gets MUCH more grey and difficult.

(PS.. as a moderator - there is nothing wrong with this thread.. Lets not turn it into a copyright rant though please)
 
Not to sound like a smart A(*^%^, But having it for sale for double and actually selling it are two different things. If he sells it, maybe you should have asked more in the first place. He could be just good at marketing it. If you made what you wanted off it, who cares?
 
Glenn McCullough said:
Not to sound like a smart A(*^%^, But having it for sale for double and actually selling it are two different things. If he sells it, maybe you should have asked more in the first place. He could be just good at marketing it. If you made what you wanted off it, who cares?
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If it sells, raise your prices! And sell on ebay!

It sounds like your customer thinks your pens are worth more than you do. Take it as a very sincere compliment - because it is.:smile:
 
Thanks guys for the constructive opinion. I hear ya.
Let me try to tighten this up just a little.
Product A was obtained from a supplier with the understanding that it would be sold for a certain price and purpose. This product was sold for its intended purpose. Then the exact product, absolutely no change of form was offered again as a resale product for twice the original price.
I am not trying to steer anyone one way or another. I am just trying to get a good feeling.
 
Without a contact of exclusivity from the supplier there isn't really an issue the way Ii see it. It there was a verbal commitment then you see the character of the supplier. Verbal contacts are enforceable in some locals.
 
Aaaahhh. A lightbulb comes on. So, hypothetically, you make a deal with a curator to offer chunks of wood cut from Abraham Lincoln's split rail fence for $100, someone buys a chunk of Lincoln's fence and puts it up on ebay for $200. Is that more along the line of your original post?

In that case, there probably isn't much you could do to prevent the resale.
 
jimm1 said:
...Product A was obtained from a supplier with the understanding that it would be sold for a certain price and purpose.
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My opinion: Suppliers have no business dictating the selling price of what's produced from the products they sell.
In fact, it might be seen as price fixing. Price fixing is highly illegal.
jimm1 said:
This product was sold .... Then the exact product, absolutely no change of form was offered again as a resale product for twice the original price.
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Are you're saying you bought an input to production, produced a product and sold it. Then, the buyer turned around and offered it for sale again at a new price?
If so, I don't see any problem. I think that's the nature of a real free market economy.
 
The only thing that I can see wrong with this is if you sold such a product to the person as a good will gestcher you lowered the price. Maybe because they were tight on cash or as a favor to a forum member. Now if that person turns around and sells it for more, then I have a problem. Not knowing all the circumstances I would guess there is nothing wrong with it.
 
Jim, your scenario is not so clear. I understand that person A sold item X to a buyer Z, then buyer Z turns around and sell the same item on eBay for twice the price. I f the eBay offer is a straight buy then there is no problem, but if it is betting then the more someone pays for it the more power to the seller.
But, if buyer Z bought the item on a special circumstances from seller A with the agreement of personal use and not for reselling it, then turns around and resell it then there is issue of dishonesty. but, if there was no terms attached to the purchase then you can't do anything. Take it as a compliment and raise your price twice as high to satay competitive.
 
alphageek said:
Jim,

My opinion... Once you own something - you have the right to do whatever you want with it. Give it away, break it, modify it, sell it again. Now are you talking about copying a product or reselling?

You weren't clear if these were originals being resold or copies. If they are originals, I don't see a problem. If they are copies - then it gets MUCH more grey and difficult.

(PS.. as a moderator - there is nothing wrong with this thread.. Lets not turn it into a copyright rant though please)
Click to expand...

Agree with Dean, once you own something then you have the right to do whatever you want with it. Ownership changed once the money exchanged.

jimm1 said:
Thanks guys for the constructive opinion. I hear ya.
Let me try to tighten this up just a little.
Product A was obtained from a supplier with the understanding that it would be sold for a certain price and purpose. This product was sold for its intended purpose. Then the exact product, absolutely no change of form was offered again as a resale product for twice the original price.
I am not trying to steer anyone one way or another. I am just trying to get a good feeling.
Click to expand...


If it wasn't in writing then it won't count, unless in some states they honor the verbal agreements. If the buyer or seller have any wittness to their claim.

GaryMGg said:
jimm1 said:
...Product A was obtained from a supplier with the understanding that it would be sold for a certain price and purpose.
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My opinion: Suppliers have no business dictating the selling price of what's produced from the products they sell.
In fact, it might be seen as price fixing. Price fixing is highly illegal.
jimm1 said:
This product was sold .... Then the exact product, absolutely no change of form was offered again as a resale product for twice the original price.
Click to expand...

Are you're saying you bought an input to production, produced a product and sold it. Then, the buyer turned around and offered it for sale again at a new price?
If so, I don't see any problem. I think that's the nature of a real free market economy.
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The manufacturers can suggest MSRP ,but can not tell you how much you can sell it for exactly. and if your buyers buy them then more power to you.


I did sell some medical supplies that my customers couldn't directly buy them from the manufacturer unless they met the min. purchase and then waiting for the product and shipping and handling. So my customers understood my price and the fact that right around this time of the year I had to pay inventory taxes if I still had the darn thing in the stock so they paid the price I sold it to them. Now manfg. was happy with the price they sold the items to me and they only gave me the MSRP, that was it. Of sourse I never sold the items for twice as how much I bought them for.
 
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If you will think back to when Chrysler brought out the Viper, some dealers were selling them to fake owners so they could then sell them as used for much above MSRP. There was a stink and some dealers were threatened by Chrysler, so they just got more creative, but the Vipers were still selling used well above MSRP until production caught up with demand.
Charles
 
MSRP stands for Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. It is only a suggestion, it is not legal to require the reseller to adhere to MSRP as a term of the sale; the FTC calls it "price fixing." If the reseller chooses to sell for more or less, the manufacturer really has no recourse other than to stop selling to that buyer, and even that is thin ice. What the manufacturer is more likely to do is take away their pricing incentives, become very slow in shipping, require payment up-front, or find some other way to discourage the reseller.
 
my thoughts is you should not use the certification card that jimmy had printed up other than that no problem. Jimmy maybe you should put your name on the card some where where they cant use it..............................
 
Chasper said:
MSRP stands for Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. It is only a suggestion, it is not legal to require the reseller to adhere to MSRP as a term of the sale; the FTC calls it "price fixing." If the reseller chooses to sell for more or less, the manufacturer really has no recourse other than to stop selling to that buyer, and even that is thin ice. What the manufacturer is more likely to do is take away their pricing incentives, become very slow in shipping, require payment up-front, or find some other way to discourage the reseller.
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Exactly, when I was manager for a store I would always look at my costs and margins based on the MSRP to assure I had enough money to run the business and make a profit. Sometime the MSRP was great and did not need adjusting, while others I bumped the price to make the cash we desired.
What sucks however is when the manufacturer reps come in, ask why I am charging what I charge then a year later the cost of goods go up...considerably :mad: (Guess the manufacturers assume they could get a bigger piece of the pie too)
 
Nothing wrong

From the information you provided nothing wrong was done. Aside from that, offering for sale on eBay is in no way a guarantee that it was sold. I wish I had a dollar for every item I've offered on ebay that didn't sell.
 
Jim in regards to your second post remember Beany babies. The only Issue with this scenario that I see is if the third party (seller on Ebay) understood the first agreement and accepted the product under those terms as well and then reneged on them. Other than that this happens all the time. Whether, as pointed out earlier. the seller suddenly needed money, or for what ever reason they decide to sell it, they put it on Ebay. The issue then becomes one of a broken trust. Hopefully the actions of the person selling on Ebay hasnt jepordized the business relationship of the supplier and the second party. Is the person selling the product on Ebay aware of the situation?

This has happened to me and I am guilty of having done it once myself. In my case someone sold my wife as a favor, a Colt Gold Cup and a S/W model 52, for a very special price. Two years later she no longer competed in NRA Bullseye and we needed the money and I sold them for a very good return. More than double the original price.

Mike
 
Based on most of the responses here, I want everyone to know that my concern was only that someone was offering a product that had a set price by the original supplier and was discounted to the third party so a profit still could be made.
Many of the PMs that I received stated some disappointment in the ebay sale and were concerned that it was me selling them at a higher price. One respondent called it "fishing" to see if I could offer this product at a higher price. My supplier actually raised his product price, but my prices stayed the same.
My apologies if this thread offended anyone, but some of the PMs really got to me. Hmmm, I wonder why they didn't make the public thread???
 
I have seen my products for sale as high as 4 times what I would sell it for! You crazy people !!! :biggrin:

Ahhh...well, I have no contracts. You buy it, you do what you want with it from there. You can feed it into a wood chipper, long as the cash is in my pocket. If you can obtain a 1000% profit on it...awesome..this means you be back for twice as much from me next time! It's a good deal if we all come out ahead.
 
Opposite end

workinforwood said:
I have seen my products for sale as high as 4 times what I would sell it for! You crazy people !!! :biggrin:

Ahhh...well, I have no contracts. You buy it, you do what you want with it from there. You can feed it into a wood chipper, long as the cash is in my pocket. If you can obtain a 1000% profit on it...awesome..this means you be back for twice as much from me next time! It's a good deal if we all come out ahead.
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I have a guy on here who doesn't want to discountl to me because he's afraid I'd sell his item cheaper than he does and drive him out of business -- Obviously I couldn't and wouldn't but he thinks I might.
 
OLDMAN5050 said:
my thoughts is you should not use the certification card that jimmy had printed up other than that no problem. Jimmy maybe you should put your name on the card some where where they cant use it..............................
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i am new at pen turning, but have been around wholesale business for awhile, i have seen stuff like this happen where someone buys a product , and then turns around and resales it at over double what they paid, i see no problem, that's why i love America, its a free market, why do you sale the card with the blank if you don't want it sold with the product, i actually have seen at a local trade show someone selling pens that were made with the whiskey blank, which is what i am assuming we are talking about, they had the pen and the cert of authenticity card for sale for much much more than the pen kit or blank cost, my point is what is the difference in selling the blank with card or the finished pen with the card, jim still makes whatever he charged for the blanks and once he sells it , that person should be able to do whatever they want with it, or don't sell the blanks if you dont want people to resale them. once you sell it, don't worry about it, i took some stuff to a pawn shop once, went back two days later, it was all priced twice or more what they paid me, more power to them, i think i found the ebay add and doesn't seem that big of a deal to me. seems like a lot of fuss over not much. hope all works out.
 
What are you really asking?

If you are really asking if a seller can keep control of an item after he/she sells it...the answer is no.

A seller can dictate neither resale price (which is illegal price fixing a violation of US Federal Law) nor restrict the use of an item in most cases.

If you sold something with a certification of authenticity, that certification is part of the sale and goes with the item. A warantee can be written run only to the original purchaser but a certification of authenticity must run with the item or it is worthless.
 
I see two things at work here at once, and they are at loggerheads with each other.

1. When I buy something from someone, it is mine to do with whatever I want. If I want to buy Jack Daniels blanks from Jim and use them as kindling for my next bar-b-q, then so be it. (What a waste though!) If I want to take them to a flea market and sell them for $10 a piece, and I get that, then good for me. I'd be ordering up a lot more from Jim.

2. When I buy something from someone like Jim, let's use his Jack Daniels blanks just for ****s and giggles, and then I put those blanks up for sale where his customers also shop, and his suppliers also shop and maybe check on their customers prices, etc., and I impact Jim's sales, have a negative impact on his bottom line and interfere with his relationship with his suppliers, then IMHO this is morally and ethically WRONG to do.
 
Padre said:
I see two things at work here at once, and they are at loggerheads with each other.

1. When I buy something from someone, it is mine to do with whatever I want. If I want to buy Jack Daniels blanks from Jim and use them as kindling for my next bar-b-q, then so be it. (What a waste though!) If I want to take them to a flea market and sell them for $10 a piece, and I get that, then good for me. I'd be ordering up a lot more from Jim.

2. When I buy something from someone like Jim, let's use his Jack Daniels blanks just for ****s and giggles, and then I put those blanks up for sale where his customers also shop, and his suppliers also shop and maybe check on their customers prices, etc., and I impact Jim's sales, have a negative impact on his bottom line and interfere with his relationship with his suppliers, then IMHO this is morally and ethically WRONG to do.
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While I don't have a dog in this fight and I might even agree with you, this is as you said your opinion and that means about as much to most as what you were paid for giving it. If you are offering up blanks you bought from Jim to compete with Jim........Well I don't see the logic there. If you are buying and marking them up and trying to sell them to the same people, I'd say you are driving more business to Jim by allowing him to be the price leader without him even trying to be competitive in his pricing.
 
hunter-27 said:
snip........
While I don't have a dog in this fight and I might even agree with you, this is as you said your opinion and that means about as much to most as what you were paid for giving it. If you are offering up blanks you bought from Jim to compete with Jim........Well I don't see the logic there. If you are buying and marking them up and trying to sell them to the same people, I'd say you are driving more business to Jim by allowing him to be the price leader without him even trying to be competitive in his pricing.
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But if you read what Jim said earlier, "Based on most of the responses here, I want everyone to know that my concern was only that someone was offering a product that had a set price by the original supplier and was discounted to the third party so a profit still could be made. Many of the PMs that I received stated some disappointment in the ebay sale and were concerned that it was me selling them at a higher price. One respondent called it "fishing" to see if I could offer this product at a higher price. My supplier actually raised his product price, but my prices stayed the same.
My apologies if this thread offended anyone, but some of the PMs really got to me. Hmmm, I wonder why they didn't make the public thread??"

Again, I state, that impacting HIS business and interfering with HIS supplier by using HIS product I purchased from HIM, is ethically and morally wrong.
 
Pretty interesting train of thought here. I'm helping someone make some special pens. He sold them at X price, which was a very good price. The person that bought them, marked them up double and has sold all of them. I can totally see both sides of the fence. Things that make you go HMMM?
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Everything is okay. I just got a anxious with some of the PMs I got and some of the accusations that flew by.
I appreciate everyone here, even the ones who said what I consider unfair. I am grateful I am part of this group.
Thanks so much.
Moderators, this thread has run its course. Can it be deleted?
 
Minor problem

Padre said:
I see two things at work here at once, and they are at loggerheads with each other.

1. When I buy something from someone, it is mine to do with whatever I want. If I want to buy Jack Daniels blanks from Jim and use them as kindling for my next bar-b-q, then so be it. (What a waste though!) If I want to take them to a flea market and sell them for $10 a piece, and I get that, then good for me. I'd be ordering up a lot more from Jim.

2. When I buy something from someone like Jim, let's use his Jack Daniels blanks just for ****s and giggles, and then I put those blanks up for sale where his customers also shop, and his suppliers also shop and maybe check on their customers prices, etc., and I impact Jim's sales, have a negative impact on his bottom line and interfere with his relationship with his suppliers, then IMHO this is morally and ethically WRONG to do.
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I'd take some issue with item #2. I sell to a couple of buyers at prices that allow them to compete with me in the same markets I sell in. If I don't like that then I can refuse to supply them at the price that allows it.

The buyer of a product owes the seller nothing but the purchase price. The buyer does not know and does not care who the sellers suppliers are and the sellers relationship with his/her suppliers is actually no business at all of the buyer.
 
Right

jasontg99 said:
GaryMGg said:
Price fixing is highly illegal.
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Tell that to Bose. Thay seem to do it it quite legally all the time.
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Bose is a single manufacturer and uses an agreement with it's resellers to sell at a "minimum resale price". As long as Bose does not enter agreement(s) with other manufacturers of sound systems it is legal. The resellers each have an agreement with Bose not with each other so it is not a violation of the anti-trust law.
 
one thing i noticed, is jim is the only one selling the blanks on the iap forum that i could find, and the whiskey blank that is being sold on ebay is the only one for sale, it doesn't appear that jim or anyone else sales them on ebay, so i would think that the people buying them are not members of the forum so it would actually be helping sell more for jim in a market that he is not part of.
 
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