I'm really hurting...

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I feel your pain! Between my wife and 2 sons my gas bill is ridiculous!
It may be time to trade everything in for some hybrid vehicles. I wonder what a hybrid truck looks like?
 
Ron,

You might want to rethink that (for now).

Due to the premium price of hybrid cars right now...studies showed that the break even point for a vehicle used an average of 1,000 miles a month is 10 years!!! [:0]

Ofcourse that point is bound to lessen due to the gasoline rate increases and the selling cost of hybrids bound to go down as more manufacturers and models are offered.

I believe we should explore ethanol option more too.
 
Well I was feeling that sting too. So I traded my truck for new Honda Fit sport and now I'm averaging 32+ mpg [:D] and thats city driving with a/c all the time. Parking is a breeze now too, I like small cars. [^]
 
To top it off Dario, BP is shutting down their operation in Alaska. That accounts for 8% of our oil. 400k barrels a day, cant wait to see how much gas goes up now.
 
I am not sure but I know the break was negated (and then some) by the "premium" paid by those who are in the waiting list...atleast for Toyota Prius. Last I heard, people were paying as much as $6,000 over the MSRP! [:0]

Not sure if this "trend" changed these past few months.
 
Gas prices in the UK are now terrible.


They have steadily went up and up over the past 10 yrs, and now we are at 97p - £1 a litre. thats about $1.70 - $1.90 your money.


It doesnt look as if it's going to get any better either.
 
Fuel prices are out of control here in OZ the city petrol price is $1.36 a litre Country price is $1.50 a litre. Having a car will soon be a luxury thanks to the greedy oil companies and CEO'S[:(!][V]
 
Originally posted by mrplace
<br />To top it off Dario, BP is shutting down their operation in Alaska. That accounts for 8% of our oil. 400k barrels a day, cant wait to see how much gas goes up now.
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GREAT!!! Just the kind of news we need now... NOT!!! [xx(][:(]
 
Originally posted by Dario
<br />I am not sure but I know the break was negated (and then some) by the "premium" paid by those who are in the waiting list...atleast for Toyota Prius. Last I heard, people were paying as much as $6,000 over the MSRP! [:0]

Not sure if this "trend" changed these past few months.
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I believe you are hearing false rumors. The Prius and Highlander hybrids sell for sticker and there is some kind of tax credit. My son has one of each and loves them and saves money on gas. Averages 60 mpg with the Prius and about 26 with the Highlander, a fairly large SUV. There are discussion groups for the Prius where you can check out what's happening with hybrids. BTW, your $6000.00 over list story may come from Hollywood where the wealthy, liberal stars with go to any length to prove they are 'green'.
 
I know about the tax credit $2,000.00 I believe? The amount over the MSRP is not a rumor either. I know a few who paid that and they are not from Hollywood [;)]...but those were about two years ago. Then, Toyota Prius sells more than a Camry does. I know because I inquired. Production might have caught up with the demand now though....in which case they should go lower.

Note that the calculation was done with comparable sized vehicle (Toyota Tercel at that time I believe which is even smaller than the Corolla). They got the price difference then used that to calculate the savings per month.

Don't get me wrong, I am an advocate for more energy efficient vehicles.

I apologize for using an outdated study though [B)]
 
Originally posted by johncrane
<br />just remembered go to GOGGLE and type in ACETONE. there is some very interesting stories on increasing mpg buy adding very small amounts of Acetone.
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John, I don't remember if they tested acetone, but Mythbusters did a show on fuel savings tips and devices and none of them proved effective.

Corporate greed is the key. I saw on the news last week where Exon reported a 10 billion dollar profit for the last QUARTER! If that's not greed, I've never seen it. And it smacks of price gouging too. So much for the Whitehouse threat of prosecuting those folks!

I've seen quite a few Chevy commercials where they are selling these ethanol (not gasohol) converted vehicles. My question is where do you get the ethanol? I haven't seen any place selling it.
 
That is it Billy.

They can easily retrofit existing stations but refuse...maybe there will be less profit in it?

Re: greed I agree 100%. They reported that for the past 6 quarters gas companies showed a steady increase in income and the last is the all time high (if I am not mistaken and they want MORE.

Re: gov't persecution...don't hold your breath, they are VERY "chummy" with these folks if you know what I mean. Hope I am not getting political.
 
Trying to avoid the political piece but at the same point since when is its the gavernments area to prosecute a company for making money?

Exxon is not a monopoly so it cant control pricing anymore than Shell or others.

I agree with the basics that I hate the increase in fuel prices and they are going to have some major ipacts on the US economy.

If the government would do more to promote alternatives in both fuel and energy in general rather than waiting for things to become critical, as they tend to do with most things it seems then they could have a useful impact, but as stated most politicians have nothing to gain and as such do very little about it. The general politicians concerns for themselves far more than for what is "right" is always been an issue though, perhaps not as extreme as it is these days.
 
You can find stations that sell E85 in your area at this link. http://www.e85refueling.com/

I have a flex fuel vehicle and live in the midwest where there is corn everywhere and there are only two stations within twenty five miles of me that sell E85.

From what little research I have done on E85 I have found that you get less mileage (aprox. 2MPG less) and the price is getting near regular gas. It may not be cost effective to use until their are more production facilities.
 
According to what I hear on NPR (yup, I admit I'm a nerd), there is considerable debate, even among the experts, about ethanol and how much it really saves on oil consumption. Apparently it takes considerable energy to convert corn into ethanol, more so than oil into gas.

I may be missing something, as it gets load when I'm roughing out some pen blanks and I often miss parts of the conversation.
 
Originally posted by Bob A
<br />You can find stations that sell E85 in your area at this link. http://www.e85refueling.com/

I have a flex fuel vehicle and live in the midwest where there is corn everywhere and there are only two stations within twenty five miles of me that sell E85.

From what little research I have done on E85 I have found that you get less mileage (aprox. 2MPG less) and the price is getting near regular gas. It may not be cost effective to use until their are more production facilities.
Click to expand...

E85 is a good fuel you will loose gas mileage but if you have a performance vehicle it is better for you cause E85 has a octane raiting of 100+. The price is a little cheaper but you have to out weigh that with your lose in gas mileage but there are ways to counteract that and get your gas mileage back to where it was with E85.
 
Originally posted by Dario
<br />Due to the premium price of hybrid cars right now...studies showed that the break even point for a vehicle used an average of 1,000 miles a month is 10 years!!! [:0]

Ofcourse that point is bound to lessen due to the gasoline rate increases and the selling cost of hybrids bound to go down as more manufacturers and models are offered.
Click to expand...

There are a few factors that led us to NOT purchase a hybird this past month (see my posting under Mercedes!!!).

Despite the tax break and the good fuel efficiency, neither Toyota or Honda could tell us the life expectancy of the batteries that run the electric motor in the hybirds. Their best estimate was 80,000-90,000 miles. Since it is a wear and tear item, it can't be covered by extended warranty. Replacement batteries are estimated to be, at this time, $8,500-10,000.

In order for the Hybrid to be cost effective, you must be traveling approximately 4000 miles per month on the average and have paid no more than the MSRP for the car. If those two factors are met, you should break even in the difference of the cost of a non-hybrid vs. a hybrid within about three years.

I have a gut feeling that alternatives are on the horizon - that the hybrids are a stepping stone to a new vehicle that will not rely on gasoline at all - but that's just a hope.

Best,
Roger Garrett
 
My primary vehicle is a Ford F350 Diesel that get about 15 mpg if I'm not towing the horse trailer with 2-3 horses in it, then it gets about 11. Diesel was $3.20 a gallon yesterday and will probably be higher later today. At lunch I bought a 1995 Honda Civic DX hatchback 5 speed for $3500, one of my all time favorite cars. The guy is repairing some body damage and I'll pick it up when I come back from Bonaire. I figure I should get about 35mpg with that little baby. I figure the car will pay for itself in about 1.5-2 years since I drive about 20,000 miles year. Plus it produces a lot less pollution than the diesel, which is as important to me as fuel efficiency. Only when, and if, the snow gets really deep here will I need to use the truck for everyday driving. Other than that it will be relegated to being just a horse hauler.
 
Does anyone remember the days when diesel was half the cost (or less) than gas? I do, and I even know why (growing up in the west Texas oil fields has its advantages[;)]). Diesel is a by-product of refining gas from crude and as such was basically free to the oil companies or refineries. Then they discovered it would burn and began producing different grades (kerosene, etc.). With that, some enterprising soul developed an engine that would run on it and the heavy equipment industry (and maritime) jumped all over it. The oil companies loved it because they now had an avenue to get rid of this previously all but useless product and even make a buck or two. Then came the auto makers and their diesel converted V-8s. Yes, they were POS's (save the German and Japanese manufacturers who had already been using small diesel engines that were actually designed as diesel engines), but it didn't take long for big oil to see where this was headed and the price of diesel began to sky rocket. Supply and demand my happy @$$! By the time the auto makers abandoned the idea of using diesels in family vehicles and only use engineered diesel engines in their trucks it was already too late for we the consumer. I used to think only lawyers (sorry, Jim[}:)]) and insurance execs were doomed to hell because of their vocation. I've now added doctors and oil company execs because none of them (yes, I know there are exceptions in doctors... even a few lawyers) give a damn about anything but making the almighty dollar.

You know, my ancestors once threw a bunch of tea in a harbor because of times quite similar to these (Son of the American Revolution, thank you very much!). And it's only going to get worse until we the people stand up and shout, "We're mad as hell and we ain't gonna take it any more!"

Sorry, you guys got me on a roll![:D]
 
Come to the lucky Country yer right!! hi taxes hi fuel prices hi Int rates and then thers p/m John howardS new work place IR LAWS which is killing the working class people! what the hell is going on here! is U.S.A like this
 
I am ahead of the curve, got rid of my Land Cruiser and Envoy in the last year or two.
My Scion gets 35+ miles and the Element about 25 , both cars have lots of room for people and cargo. Coming from Detroit, it really hurt to buy my first Jap car, but they beat us at our own game and really dought I would ever buy an American car again. But I think they are all made here now anyway. [:D] My son is the only one left in the family with a GMC 3/4T V8, I hear him crying all the time.
 
<b><b>I use my 2004 XLE 4cyl. camry to take two large people, 200 lbs of weights, 5 full size tables 50 lbs. of pens and 50 lbs. of drapes and displays and a 10x10 ez-up to shows. It routinely gets 30+ mpg over mountains at 75-80 mph.

We bought the wife a new xb scion, too new to know mpg cuz we are on the first tank!</b></b>
 
I beat it another way, the best way, About 2 years ago I changed jobs and got a company car. Same line of work, but I was using my old CJ before, sure I loose some serious fun factor by going from my Jeep (topless & doorless from April to October) [:D] to a Malibu [xx(].. But it did come with this really nice fleet gas card! and "fix all card" I only do about 500 a week now, but I was up around 1000 with the Jeep. That is a benifit worth about $3714.00 at $3.00 a gallon! [:D]

At todays prices gas for the CJ would be about $8666.00 plus any repairs I had to do to keep her running [:D]
 
You hit the nail right on the head Roger! WE are going to have a big issue with the disposal of these battries when they wear out. I am also curious if they will be like a rechargeable flashlight say at 75k where the charged life is a lot less than new.

BUT, on the good note.. you can always chop it all up and have a shop weld in a Corola drivetrain ![;)]


Originally posted by RogerGarrett
<br />
Originally posted by Dario
<br />Due to the premium price of hybrid cars right now...studies showed that the break even point for a vehicle used an average of 1,000 miles a month is 10 years!!! [:0]

Ofcourse that point is bound to lessen due to the gasoline rate increases and the selling cost of hybrids bound to go down as more manufacturers and models are offered.
Click to expand...

There are a few factors that led us to NOT purchase a hybird this past month (see my posting under Mercedes!!!).

Despite the tax break and the good fuel efficiency, neither Toyota or Honda could tell us the life expectancy of the batteries that run the electric motor in the hybirds. Their best estimate was 80,000-90,000 miles. Since it is a wear and tear item, it can't be covered by extended warranty. Replacement batteries are estimated to be, at this time, $8,500-10,000.

In order for the Hybrid to be cost effective, you must be traveling approximately 4000 miles per month on the average and have paid no more than the MSRP for the car. If those two factors are met, you should break even in the difference of the cost of a non-hybrid vs. a hybrid within about three years.

I have a gut feeling that alternatives are on the horizon - that the hybrids are a stepping stone to a new vehicle that will not rely on gasoline at all - but that's just a hope.

Best,
Roger Garrett
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by alamocdc
<br /> You know, my ancestors once threw a bunch of tea in a harbor because of times quite similar to these (Son of the American Revolution, thank you very much!). And it's only going to get worse until we the people stand up and shout, "We're mad as hell and we ain't gonna take it any more!"

Sorry, you guys got me on a roll![:D]
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Billy, just when do you think the breaking point is? $4.00, $5.00 ?
I say, don't re elect one person running for office this November [:0] Then, someone may just get the message, we are tired of their political BS [:(!]
 
Originally posted by alamocdc
<br />I'm with you, Anthony. The sad part is, they will still get the inflated retirement salaries. [:0][B)]
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Wouldn't that be special, to elect 100 NEW Senetors and 435 NEW Congressmen, then they can appeal the retirement package for all the ones that left [:p] Give them what they deserve, nothing, no health insurance like half the folks in this country, and cut their pensions 80%

When do you think the last time Ol Georgy filled up his tank or any of our Senetors [?] Hell, even if they did, they probablly had a credit card that was paid by the TAX PAYERS [xx(]
 
Is this the new "venting forum" I heard might be in the works?? [}:)] [:D]
May I chime in? First, am I alone when I read about the pipeline and thought, CONSPIRACY???? <b></b>NOW <b></b> BP decides there is a corrosion problem????? So because BP didn't do any maintenance work for years, WE got to pay the price? What a crock of S***
I am fully convinced our governments are in cahoots with the oil companies. How else can you explain Senators and Congressmen knocking down plans for windmills? We have a few in Atlantic City and to be honest, it’s a breath of fresh air, so to speak [:)]
I heard yesterday on the radio, these windmills have generated 350 million dollars worth of energy. (No I do not know how long they have been there, but not for very long) But one Senator of note says "not off my coast." How bout one of them doing something good for the country instead of saving his or her view.
Our government has no trouble mandating car have better pollution controls, why can't they say, if you want to sell cars in this country, 50% have to be hybrids by say 2010. Also, the government can mandate each state to generate so much "green energy" for tax credits or whatever lese they seem to be always holding over our heads. Why won't this be done?
Sorry for such a long post, but this is one area that really gets my dander up
Thanks
Gary
 
PS I didn't know about the cost of a battery, so I did some reasearch. check this out if you are interested. The cost is conciderably less than $8000

http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm
 
One (sorta) problem with the hybrids is that they only charge the batteries from the engine. If you dig around on the net there are some folks modifying their hybrids so they can be charged by plugging in. Apparently greatly increases the mileage, especially if you mainly drive short distances.

As for windmills, I'm all for them. Personally I like the way they look. But I know around here (SW VA) it's not the gov blocking them - it's the residents. There has been a push to put some in around hear and in nearby WV, but the people living there say they'll ruin the view and are dangerous for birds.
 
Originally posted by esheffield
<br />One (sorta) problem with the hybrids is that they only charge the batteries from the engine. If you dig around on the net there are some folks <b>modifying their hybrids so they can be charged by plugging in. Apparently greatly increases the mileage, especially if you mainly drive short distances.</b>

As for windmills, I'm all for them. Personally I like the way they look. But I know around here (SW VA) it's not the gov blocking them - it's the residents. There has been a push to put some in around hear and in nearby WV, but the people living there say they'll ruin the view and are <b>dangerous for birds</b>.
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The mod to allow AC charging will surely make them a lot more attractive to some. Not sure if it will save much with the power rates but sure is nice to have an option.

I can believe the residents voting windmills out...especially the rich ones but I cannot believe they will factor the birds getting hurt. Sure, some may but the birds are much more intelligent than what these people make them appear. They will adapt fast and before you know it...use those windmills to their advantage.
 
I would almost bet that some Peregrine falcon has nested atop one of those windmills hahaha I love the way they look too.
If anyone is really serious about helping fix our fuel/enviromental problems, write your representitive and ask why more isn't being done. I wrote our governor and got a reply that the possibilities of windmills in the ocean are being studied, but their is opposition from the towns that are afraid that they will be an eye sore and will hurt tourism. I know I am the supreme skeptic, but somehow, somewhere, there is a hidden agenda.

Here is a link i just found, decide for yourself

http://www.acua.com/about/pressrelease1.cfm?id=103
 
The wind mills are actually a danger to bats. Tree huggers want wind mills and animal lovers don't. Just home from vacation that involved 3000 mi of drivimg in a Lincoln Town Car. The trip average was 24.5 mpg. Some of that was city [south Philly] and time in the mountians on old roads. [twisty windy hard climbs and decents] Interstate driving was at 70-80 mph. Vehicle maintenance and driving style really help. My car has 128,000 miles on the odometer. I use synthetic lubricants bumper to bumper. The little things really add up when talking fuel mileage. I don't see an electric motor in my immediate future. I have considered a golf cart for short trips in my local area.[No I'm not a golfer] Part of the problem with electric plug in vehicles in they have a tendency to burst into flames while rechargimg. Destroying the cart and the structure they are contained in. I see cars and trucks on the road constantly with low tire pressures. If every car in the country had properly inflated tires and a tune up I feel the fuel savings would be in the 10-20% area. This is just my opinion and is in no way scientific. Check your tires today and if low top them off. It really does help.
Jim[:)]
 
The people complaining about windmills being unsightly or screwing up the view have abviously never been to countries that use them extensively.

Having been to a few I know I personally find them to be somewhat fascinating regardless of the age they happen to be.

When in Copenhagen last year the hotel I was at was right next to the airport, immediately off the coast at the airport is a line of windmills. It seems everytime I would look out the window of my room eventually I would be drawn to the windmills and the variability of each blade turn and it being out of synch with its neighbors...but hey maybe its just the latent autistic in me...

Regardless the view is subject to change wherever you live. People that have refineries near them dont appreciate the view the smell or the danger but they did not have a choice when they were built 30 years ago, or whenever they were. If the people who dont want their view to be changed are willing to revert to colonial times then they can keep their view otherwise adapt and thrive.
 
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