HSS or Carbide chisels

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joe004

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Cabot, ar
When I bought my lathe I got a pen crafting starter kit that included 3 carbon steel chisels with it. I'm having to sharpen them every time I try and turn something. After blowing up 2 plastic blanks the other day I did some reading and found that dull or improperly sharpened tools can cause this. I want to get some good chisels that will give me more time to learn and practice turning and less worry about sharpening. What is good brand or place to buy that wont break the bank but have good performance and life?


Thanks

Joe
 
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For pens I primarily use a Crown 1/2" HSS steel chisel.
I also have an Easy Wood Tools full size Carbide rougher chisel that I occasionally use for rouging pens but mostly use for larger projects.

The Crown chisel as been great for me. I usually like to sharpen it at least once for every wood pen I turn. And twice for every acrylic.
 
This is a conversation that's played out many times. It's much a matter if preference, sharpening ability and types of materials you've turned.

There will be a landslide with the opposite opinion but I use my carbide less and less.

HSS spindle gouge, oval skew, thin parting tool, spindlemaster....are the tools I use for pens most of the time.
 
I shop at Thompson Lathe Tools most of the time

I do have Hunter and EZ carbide (and a few others) but use a 5/8 spindle roughing gouge and detail gouge from Thompson -- then the Skew
 
Joe004, I've been a woodworker for decades, a woodturner for less. One of the things that I've learned the hard way is to not scrimp on cost when it comes to the tools you depend on and use to get the best results. I've bought cheap and/or inferior quality tools over the years, only to have shortly realized that "you get what you pay for" and I ended up replacing them and buying better tools anyway when the inferior tools didn't hold up or perform well. So in reality it cost me more in the long run to replace the inferior quality tools than if I bought the better ones in the first place.

I don't think you'll ever regret spending your hard-earned dollars on quality high speed steel (HSS) tools manufactured in America, England, Germany or Austria.
 
For the first several years I was frustrated with sharpening. Then I bought a carbide tool and my turning became easier and less frustrating.

Peter Cribari (wood-of-1kind) invented the carbide insert tool for woodturning, here is his website: Tools for Sale - Wood-of-1-Kind
I wish I had one of those when I started. My next turning tool will be the Rotondo.

The Pen Pro is what I use, but I would have bought the Unitool, if it had been available: Bear Tooth Woods - Woodchuck Carbide Turning Tools
I just wanted to make pens. Turning was to method I used to make pens. I was not interested in becoming a turner, so my goal was to find a tool that made turning easier for me.

A carbide tool will help you get turning more easily, and keep you turning. Once you decide that your turning skill is something you want to develop more, you can add more tools and explore different types.
 
Tool steel or cost of a tool does not make you a better turner! With few exceptions majority of Carbide, HSS, and exotic steel for turning tools comes from China today.

Keeping your tools sharp, grip, stance, using your body, and not forcing the cut, and lathe speed will make you a better turner. If want to achieve excellence those six things mentioned takes patience, practice, and persistence will get you there. Once master those skills only goal left is strive for off the tool finish. I am still working on that one!

I try to stay away from tool steel discussions because in perfect world will have little bit of each tool steel available today. No matter how much you pay or type of steel used to make a tool all dull with use.

I own HSS spindle & bowl turning tools made by Crown, Hamlet, Henry Taylor, P&N, and Robert Sorby. I buy Thompson tools unhandled and make my own. For tool besides Thompson my favorite venders are Craft Supplies & Packard Woodworks been buying tools from them for more than twenty years.

Only use three tools turning pens, conventional skews, ¾" roughing gouge, and parting tools whether turning wood or acrylic pens blanks.

Conventional turning tools give you more bang for the money cause can resharpen them. Some of my HSS tools over twenty years old and still have life in them, some just do not want to let go of. Carbide tools do excel at cutting, hard exotic woods, Tru-stone & antler but carbide cutter expensive to replace when dull.
 
Thanks for all of your suggestions and thoughts. I know that different tools will not make me a great craftsman overnight. I am a diesel mechanic and fabricator by trade and over the last 20 years have learned that using the proper tools and better quality tools it makes the learning curve a little easier. On the wood blanks I don't have much trouble achieving a good clean cut. After getting the plastic blanks round and smooth I would start making cuts with good consistent shaving coming off then all at once it would chatter a little them boom pieces everywhere.
 
Started with carbide And now I am really enjoying hss a day sharpening too. I think it's a personal preference type of thing which may change as your experience check changes
Enjoy the process!
 
Joe - chiming in late here. I was in much the same situation as you when I started turning. Carbon steel tools are a great place to learn how to play the sharpening game. But once you get that skill in progress you want to lengthen the interval between sharpenings. I'd suggest a HSS tool or 2 but rather then high end, I suggest something like a Benjamin's Best skew (avail @ PSI). You can always upgrade to Sorby or something like that later.

I'd also suggest zeroing in on your sharpening technique (of which there are MANY). Jigs and other helps will assist in getting a consistent edge which (I believe) is sooo important.

I do like the carbide tools available, but, in my experience, they are most effective on things like Tru-Stone. Not as effective on many of the plastics and I really don't like the carbide on wood.
 
I'm not a big fan of the insert tools. I've not had very good luck. I use my conventional turning chisels most often. I have the smaller HSS tools from PSI and a set from Harbor Freight. I also have a set of Marples I inherited from my dad that I use infrequently (they are great tools, but it's a family thing...)

I most often use the conventional carbide tipped skew from PSI. It's not the best carbide, it does seem to need to be touched up on a diamond hone every other project. Some of that may be because I intentionally re-shaped it to a convex profile. For the money it's been the best bang for my buck.

In all of this advice remember it's all about the results YOU get. If you find out your best work is done with a sharpened nail, then go for it.
 
If could buy quality carbon steel tools today would buy a few select tools. Back when started turning only carbon steel tools available to buy were from Sears, used tools, or swap meet low quality. Few vendors claim to have carbon steel tools but price wise HSS makes more sense.

The most prominent makers of HSS tools known to me were Crown, Henry Taylor, and Sorby. Gerry Glaser was only manufacturer of exotic steel tools.

Doug Thompson filled that void when Gerry Glaser sold his company and Glaser Hitec ignored woodturners for several years.

Today there are several vendors hawking their exotic steel tool made from M42 & above steels. Every one of them claims there tools more wear resistant than HSS.

Well Hamlet's 2030 & 2060 powder metal tools hard to find today. Same with Crown PM Tools less vendors carry them. From personal experience do not think KYRO tools worth the extra money.

For the average or hobby turner M2 HSS turning tools will serve you well. Just know not all HSS is M2. Whether buying M2, M42 or other exotic steel boils down to where that manufacturer buys his steel. Will see what I am talking about reading this rather technical article, "Ranking Wear Resistance."

Ranking Wear Resistance of Tool Steels for Woodturning

http://www.morewoodturningmagazine.com/reviews/Tool Wear Testing by Jim Staley.pdf

This next article not really a complete test of all the vendors out there at time article written but nice to know info anyway.

Putting steel to the test

http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/ToolSteel.pdf

Find a vendor(s) you trust and stick with them.
 
joe004 said:
When I bought my lathe I got a pen crafting starter kit that included 3 carbon steel chisels with it. I'm having to sharpen them every time I try and turn something. After blowing up 2 plastic blanks the other day I did some reading and found that dull or improperly sharpened tools can cause this. I want to get some good chisels that will give me more time to learn and practice turning and less worry about sharpening. What is good brand or place to buy that wont break the bank but have good performance and life?


Thanks

Joe
Click to expand...

The short answer is that your carbon steel will work fine but won't hold an edge as long (presuming they are from a reputable vendor that did proper heat treating).
The longer answer is that more exotic steels M4, M42, and assorted powdered metals, will hold the edge longer because of their wear resistance. The same caveat about heat treating holds true. Even the best metal with bad heat treating is going to be bad. There is an argument out side of woodturning that M4+ doesn't get as sharp (like a carving tool), the reality is that as soon as you put the edge to wood, it gets dull anyway. What you really need is a sharp edge that stays sharp.
With that said, Thompson tools are my go to, but I have Oneways M4s and some of the 2040s also, they are all powdered metals.
As for all coming from China, unless Crucible steels manufactures in China, I disagree.

As for sharpening, the biggest issue initially is getting the angles consistent. I would recommend if you don't have a slow speed grinder, get one. High speed grinder work too fast and blue the steel quickly taking the temper out of the steel. If you can afford better wheels, Camel Reds are cheap and work well, Oneways are better, CBN even better, but much more costly.
Then you need a jig of some sort. There are several I would recommend, Sharpfast is easiest once set up, and then One ways. If you get the Sharpfast, get the Oneway receivers (slides) work better that Sharpfasts.
 
If read my first link "ranking Wear Resistance," and did not understand or did not agree with information provided. Concluding sentences on page 14 should be very helpful in making tool buying decisions.

"All of the steels advertised as being more wear resistant than M2 are truly more resistant. However, the relative wear resistance is less than claimed. Cryotreatment applied to triple tempered tool steel has no effect on wear resistance."

First to admit neither "resistance of tool steel," nor "putting steel to the test," articles comprehensive for every turning situation. Some wood species will defy whatever tool steel used forcing you to resharpen, decrease or increase etc; to solve tear out problems whether wood is dry or wet.

All turning tool steels need resharpening or in the case of carbide cutters replaced eventually when dull. For pen turning or other woodturning do you really need more than M2 HSS? Only you can answer that question.
 
Follow the "simple" route and go carbide. No sharpening, no need for jigs, no expensive sharpening system. Carbide allows you to concentrate on your turning and not focus on sharpening. I know which way I've been going. Carbide turning is effective and fun to fill your turning needs. The learning curve to getting good results using carbide is much shorter than HSS. Some of the old timers here and other forums seem to make turning more complicated than what it actually is. Keep it simple and go carbide.:biggrin:
 
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I know there are many that will disagree with me on this but it's what I found that works best for me . I use the carbide tipped pen turning chisels from PSI to give very good results and a long life between sharpening . These tools have the 1/2" or so of the tip made from a solid piece of carbide and are brazed to steel shafts . Because the tips are just brazed on they can be very easily broken off but if you properly support the tip on the tool rest you will have no problems .
I love the size and the long time between sharpening of these tools even when cutting metals like brass and aluminum .
I also have a Thompson skew and gouge and like them but I hate sharpening them all the time . I do use a Hunter carbide insert tool for roughing to aprox size and shape but then my PSI tools come out and finish roughing and finishing with them and I can get multiple pens between sharpening .
Checkout my photo gallery to see the results .
 
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Before the days of the carbide pen tools such as the Skogger and EWT, I was having issues chipping and blowing out acrylic blanks as well using a gouge that came in a starter set. I had no way of sharpening it, so after reading about the Sorby Spindle Master I ended up purchasing one from PSI. A couple of swipes on a stone was all it took to keep it sharp, and best of all, no more blowouts. I now use a homemade carbide tool with EWT inserts to rough, and a Sorby oval skew to finish, hope this helps,

Bill
 
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