How much diversity is there, really, in our pen kits?

[jrista]

So, I read through this thread, which was a rather exceptional necro:

Who Really Makes Our Pen Kits???

Ever wonder about that?? There are posts, regularly, on IAP with comments as to the sources of our various pen/pencil/etc kits; but it doesn't seem that anyone really knows for, sure, what is going on and those that might, aren't talking. The two names that get tossed around regularly are...

www.penturners.org

The subject matter was interesting, as I was just having the same thoughts that the OP of that thread was: Given how so many kits are so similar, essentially the same, but often cost quite different amounts of money (i.e. some of the Elegant Wall Street II kits I just picked up from Woodcraft were $18.99 each!! (And were 16.99 just a few weeks back, and were more like $14.99 during the summer...) Then I found, essentially the exact same kit from PSI for around $12.99...), is there any value in buying from a particular supplier?

Or should we, for a given particular style of pen kit, buy the cheapest we can find because they are really the same kit, from the same manufacturer, in the end?

 

[jttheclockman]

You are probably looking at pandemic pricing and due to shortages, plating shortages and increase in shipping costs. So not fair compairing pricing to years gone by. As far as differences go, yes many companies change centerbands and other trim goodies to make the look different. But basic designs are just about the same. If one type sells well for a certain vendor than others jump on the selling train. When you say cheap plating determines that alot of time and kits made by Dayacom will be more because better quality.

 

[jrista]

You are probably looking at pandemic pricing and due to shortages, plating shortages and increase in shipping costs. So not fair compairing pricing to years gone by. As far as differences go, yes many companies change centerbands and other trim goodies to make the look different. But basic designs are just about the same. If one type sells well for a certain vendor than others jump on the selling train. When you say cheap plating determines that alot of time and kits made by Dayacom will be more because better quality.

FWIW, I'm only looking at prices for the last 6-8 months, not years. The change has been DRAMATIC in a very short time, yes because of shortages, shipping issues, etc.

I have pen kits from EB, PSI and Woodriver...that as far as I can tell are the same except for the price, and perhaps band design.

 

[Nicholas Andrews]

FWIW, I'm only looking at prices for the last 6-8 months, not years. The change has been DRAMATIC in a very short time, yes because of shortages, shipping issues, etc.

I have pen kits from EB, PSI and Woodriver...that as far as I can tell are the same except for the price, and perhaps band design.

Should we not be concerned these days about country of origin as well as (perhaps more than) price? I increasingly resent having to buy anything from China, a country with an appalling human rights record and a communist regime which stifles freedom of speech. Chinese quality is still pretty awful for many products including pen and project kits so best avoided anyway. What we pen turners should be encouraging is more manufacture in the USA and Western Europe where quality is much higher , reliability better and (mostly) produced in countries where our fellow human beings are well treated.

 

[montmill]

It's everywhere. I have a doctor's appointment in a clinic a big drive away and we looked into staying overnight in a hotel. The sticker shock made the decision for us. I understand they're in a bind but so are all of us. New Zealand's recovery is interesting to follow. I doubt we'll learn anything but it's interesting to look at and consider.

 

[RGVPens]

Just a newbie thought...are any pen kits actually made here in the USA?

 

[PatrickR]

Should we not be concerned these days about country of origin as well as (perhaps more than) price? I increasingly resent having to buy anything from China, a country with an appalling human rights record and a communist regime which stifles freedom of speech. Chinese quality is still pretty awful for many products including pen and project kits so best avoided anyway. What we pen turners should be encouraging is more manufacture in the USA and Western Europe where quality is much higher , reliability better and (mostly) produced in countries where our fellow human beings are well treated

while I agree, if you rule out PRC as a country of origin you will be making only a couple styles of pens.
I am only aware of one MIUSA pen kit and the supply doesn't meet the demand yet.
If there are others made outside of the PRC I would like to know who has them.
also we would have to be willing to pay a substantially higher price for anything comparable.

 

[RGVPens]

"I am only aware of one MIUSA pen kit and the supply doesn't meet the demand yet."

Who is that? Do they have a website?

 

[PatrickR]

"I am only aware of one MIUSA pen kit and the supply doesn't meet the demand yet."

Who is that? Do they have a website?

McKenzie pen works has revived the Lazerlines kits. There has been a fair amount of discussion about here.

 

[turnit2020]

Just about all pen kits have seen a price increase over the past month or so. Believe it is supply chain problems that are driving those increases. The imports from mainland china do not seem to have the quality of those from Taiwan. PSI is even limiting the number of a single pen that can be ordered. When the supply chain issues are resolved the prices should begin to become more reasonable.
Turncrazy43

 

[penicillin]

"I am only aware of one MIUSA pen kit and the supply doesn't meet the demand yet."

Who is that? Do they have a website?

Really? Is it that difficult to post the link here? C'mon! US made pen kits, very high quality. They are just getting started with production, so there is a limited supply. Hopefully a high demand will be followed with increased production:

McKenzie Penworks Pen Kits

These premium pen kits are manufactured in the US from solid stainless steel. Each kit includes Schmidt ink refills or converters. Ball point Pens (Liberty/Coyote) - Schmidt 900m Parker Style RefillRollerball Pens (Desire/Eagle/Raven) - Schmidt 5888 Ceramic Rollerball Fountain Pens...

www.mckenziepenworks.com

I will personally vouch for Tim McKenzie and the quality of McKenzie Penworks products. Tim is active here at Penturners.org.

 

[ed4copies]

Berea and Dayacom are Taiwan. And yes, Berea has a captive producer, located in Taiwan.
PSI often does not say where their products are made, but many are labelled Taiwan,
some are now India.

 

[leehljp]

The "quote" in the OP had a quite different question then - versus now. At that time (2008), manufacturers were not really questioned that much, - and discussion about them, plus quality control was not a big topic unless it was blatantly obvious. Now, everything is questioned and there are some here that can give some good information on just about any question that is asked - if a few days are given to let those in the know respond. Yes, we do know who the MFGers are and QC in general.

. . . But pricing and changes are taking place on a global scale. With that in mind, and watching the personal pen making industry, particularly on IAP, I would not be surprised to see a couple of different pen "transmissions" developed here in the USA that would allow much more freedom in custom pen / Kitless pen development from pen turners, freeing many many moderate to very skillful pen makers of the cost of kits. A very well made, designed and artistic Kitless pen can be done easily. For those who were here in 2004 - 2008 - we have seen a huge progress in pen designs outside of kits. And it is progressing even more. The last 2 or 3 years have brought on more Kitless designs, particularly for fountain pens.

An artistically made Kitless along with durability will command much more than most Kits. The Price increases plus some decrease in quality to hold prices down - will drive the personal pen making industry in that direction - IMHO.

 

[hooked]

You could potentially determine where vendors are getting their supply. I use this type of data for work, but import records and bills of lading are available to the public through every port of entry and U.S. Customs. For example, I just quickly searched for Xiamen Rizheng Industry Co, AKA Penkitsmall. Their bill of lading data is available so you can see who their biggest customers in the U.S. are, data on shipments, and what is in the shipments. This is a free snippet of year-old data, but if you access a site for Customs or logistics data, typically a paid site like Import Genius, you can get much more detail if you really wanted to determine supplier sources.

Import Records: xiamen rizheng industry co l t d

Import customs records filed with Customs and Border Patrol for Xiamen Rizheng Industry Co L T D

import.report

 

[jrista]

Really? Is it that difficult to post the link here? C'mon! US made pen kits, very high quality. They are just getting started with production, so there is a limited supply. Hopefully a high demand will be followed with increased production:

McKenzie Penworks Pen Kits

These premium pen kits are manufactured in the US from solid stainless steel. Each kit includes Schmidt ink refills or converters. Ball point Pens (Liberty/Coyote) - Schmidt 900m Parker Style RefillRollerball Pens (Desire/Eagle/Raven) - Schmidt 5888 Ceramic Rollerball Fountain Pens...

www.mckenziepenworks.com

I will personally vouch for Tim McKenzie and the quality of McKenzie Penworks products. Tim is active here at Penturners.org.

Thank you! I had actually seen a couple posts by McKenzie on these forums...didn't quite realize they were made in the USA. Very good to know! Looks like they have more kit styles coming, will be keeping an eye on them for sure.

 

[jrista]

Should we not be concerned these days about country of origin as well as (perhaps more than) price? I increasingly resent having to buy anything from China, a country with an appalling human rights record and a communist regime which stifles freedom of speech. Chinese quality is still pretty awful for many products including pen and project kits so best avoided anyway. What we pen turners should be encouraging is more manufacture in the USA and Western Europe where quality is much higher , reliability better and (mostly) produced in countries where our fellow human beings are well treated.

I do think this is a factor, yes. I've had more than enough product from China the last decade, and yes the human rights issues are front and center there (not just from a "who's making the pens" standpoint, but across the board...) Thankfully, it sounds like many of the quality kits come from Taiwan, instead of China. I'm happy to support US and European manufacturers as well. The tough part is actually knowing where the kits come from.

You could potentially determine where vendors are getting their supply. I use this type of data for work, but import records and bills of lading are available to the public through every port of entry and U.S. Customs. For example, I just quickly searched for Xiamen Rizheng Industry Co, AKA Penkitsmall. Their bill of lading data is available so you can see who their biggest customers in the U.S. are, data on shipments, and what is in the shipments. This is a free snippet of year-old data, but if you access a site for Customs or logistics data, typically a paid site like Import Genius, you can get much more detail if you really wanted to determine supplier sources.

Import Records: xiamen rizheng industry co l t d

Import customs records filed with Customs and Border Patrol for Xiamen Rizheng Industry Co L T D

import.report

Thanks! This is quite interesting. It might be worth checking just to get an idea of what comes from where, to help guide buying decisions.

 

[jttheclockman]

I do think this is a factor, yes. I've had more than enough product from China the last decade, and yes the human rights issues are front and center there (not just from a "who's making the pens" standpoint, but across the board...) Thankfully, it sounds like many of the quality kits come from Taiwan, instead of China. I'm happy to support US and European manufacturers as well. The tough part is actually knowing where the kits come from.


Thanks! This is quite interesting. It might be worth checking just to get an idea of what comes from where, to help guide buying decisions.

Let me be the first to wish you good luck with that quest. Many times vendors switch and they do not advertise where they get the kits from. Some vendors are resellers and to know and find them is not easy. Some vendors cater to many different brands . Supply and demand has been the motto forever. People want cheap but good quality. Sometimes you need to narrow you pen kit making habbits and stick with kits that are top quality and come from where you want them to. This is opening another topic that has been kicked around here for many years and that is selling your finished product. Many factors go into that but making a name for yourself and selling a product that you are proud of and stand behind is what it is all about. Not price of kits. Price of kits is the very bottom of the list of things to be concerned with when selling your finished product. That statement surely will open debate but I stand behind it. Again good luck in whatever it is you are seeking. In the library there is lists of vendors.

 

[TellicoTurning]

Should we not be concerned these days about country of origin as well as (perhaps more than) price? I increasingly resent having to buy anything from China, a country with an appalling human rights record and a communist regime which stifles freedom of speech. Chinese quality is still pretty awful for many products including pen and project kits so best avoided anyway. What we pen turners should be encouraging is more manufacture in the USA and Western Europe where quality is much higher , reliability better and (mostly) produced in countries where our fellow human beings are well treated.

I don't want to get into politics here, but as a child right after WWII, I remember hearing adults say things from Japan were junk, today Japanese products are considered very high quality.
Since my career was in international shipping, I came to realize that we live in a global society with a global economy... While China may have some abhorrent political views, we do in fact need China. They are one of our larger trade partners, a great deal of our manufacturing process are tied to the Chinese trade market and will likely always will be.
During my years in the shipping industry, I shipped millions of dollars worth of goods to china as they are trying to modernize their own economy. I think we need to learn to deal with China as a business partner rather than as an antagonist.
My opinion and you are free to disagree.

 

[jrista]

I don't want to get into politics here, but as a child right after WWII, I remember hearing adults say things from Japan were junk, today Japanese products are considered very high quality.
Since my career was in international shipping, I came to realize that we live in a global society with a global economy... While China may have some abhorrent political views, we do in fact need China. They are one of our larger trade partners, a great deal of our manufacturing process are tied to the Chinese trade market and will likely always will be.
During my years in the shipping industry, I shipped millions of dollars worth of goods to china as they are trying to modernize their own economy. I think we need to learn to deal with China as a business partner rather than as an antagonist.
My opinion and you are free to disagree.

China is no Japan. These are apples and oranges we are comparing here...

If China acted like a business partner rather than an antagonist and thief, that would be a heck of a lot easier. China IS an antagonist, though, in many more ways than one, and that has been no more apparent in recent times than the last three years with all of their aggression. They are also one of the greatest IP thieves the world has ever encountered. They are not a friend of the rest of the world's businesses...they themselves have made that incredibly clear. Heck, they have made it clear they aren't even friends of businesses in their own country.

Finally, the human rights violations perpetuated by that country, which have spanned decades, are not something we can simply brush underneath the table in order to try and accept this aggressive and antagonistic country to the table. On the contrary, they need to be front and center to every when dealing with them, as China would love nothing more than for us to ignore their atrocities and give them more power and control here in the west. The western world has ignored China's evils for far too long, and its really done us no good...other than to deprive the world of the quality of our own manufacturing in favor of the cheapness of that from China...

 

[keithbyrd]

Thank you! I had actually seen a couple posts by McKenzie on these forums...didn't quite realize they were made in the USA. Very good to know! Looks like they have more kit styles coming, will be keeping an eye on them for sure.

McKenzie Pen Works has acquired all pen production from Lazerlinez - looking forward to them being up and running!

 

[montmill]

As long as US companies continue to go there the problem will continue. Like encouraging a bully. When money is the goal, all things are possible.