HF Dust Collector Upgrade Step #1

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
2,534
Location
Washington, IN
Step 1 of my HF Dust collector upgrade.
032e09f0276c46ab4f287ce86056b6e2.jpg

The Dust collector.
4975ff55adf8ea58e1c97d768300e672.jpg

The original blower.
a8852e66d814b603cbe1e999c1a6f956.jpg

The new Rikon blower.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

duncsuss

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
1,754
Location
Wilmington, MA
Did you get a new motor along with the new blades? If so, it might run the opposite way to the HF motor, which would account for the blades appearing to be reversed.
 

NVSB4

Member
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
57
Location
DFW, Texas
Even if running in reverse, would it shoot the dust up the passageway as efficient with the blades moving away from it?
 

MPVic

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
455
Location
Hamilton, ON, Canada
It looks as if the blades are meant to run in the opposite direction or you need to flip the blades over.
Hi folks!
Having been in the HVAC industry for over 30 years, let me share some info on that blower wheel. It really is not on backwards - the wheel is what is called a "backward-inclined" wheel. Unlike traditional "forward-curved" wheels (AKA squirrel cage), the BI wheel is capable of much higher static pressure, i.e. more power to overcome air flow restrictions & produce much higher suction power.
That upgraded wheel should produce a good deal more suction power. Hope it works for you.
 

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
2,534
Location
Washington, IN
The whole process that I will be posting here bit by bit comes from those who have already performed the mods on Phil Thiens website. If you are not sure who that is, look him up. The forum is another treasure chest.

The air is reported to be slight, no more 200 CPM range as I recall. The suction increase in static pressure I believe is about 50%.

In all reality, the original HF blades are more "backwards" than those on the Rikon impeller. The HF is scooping the air, trying to move more air with a small impeller resulting in less efficiency and lower static pressure. The reverse incline is actually the more efficient design.

Reports indicate the motors holding up fine on a properly wired circuit. Some undersized/overloaded circuits report tripping on start up. I have had no issues.

Notice the impeller is slightly offset in the housing. It is this offset that helps throw the dust into the bag, not the shape of the blades.

Good observation, Les. From Phil's website, they not only look the same but all measurements are identical except for the impeller and bag. The HF is forward incline, achieving CFM at lower static pressure with a smaller diameter i.e. cheaper impeller which can more easily overload. I would guess they come from the same factory, too.

Biggest observation is the "swirl" in the bag, wish I had videoed before and after. Was a decent effect, say the fines were swirling around visually about 3 times. With new impeller the same effect is tight, maybe 9 or 10 times. Not very scientific but noticeable. Next will add a Thien baffle, as that will drop most of the stuff out ahead of the bag. Will also upgrade bag to a wynn pleated filter.

The impeller is part #22 for a Rikon DC60-200. There is a backlog, mine took over 2 months to come in. Price was $100 plus $20 shipping.

From my spreadsheet I will end up with a modified HF with Thien baffle, .5 micron filter for about $500-$600 vs a Rikon or Jet with Thien baffle and .5 micron pleated filter for about $1100.

I have experience with fan/blower design and application from both steel and mining as well as other heavy industry and a stint in large motor design years ago.

Applying what others have learned. Make sure you do not jump in and do mods you are not comfortable with or understand the associated risks, gang. Not worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
8,344
Location
Tunica, MS,
It looks as if the blades are meant to run in the opposite direction or you need to flip the blades over.
Hi folks!
Having been in the HVAC industry for over 30 years, let me share some info on that blower wheel. It really is not on backwards - the wheel is what is called a "backward-inclined" wheel. Unlike traditional "forward-curved" wheels (AKA squirrel cage), the BI wheel is capable of much higher static pressure, i.e. more power to overcome air flow restrictions & produce much higher suction power.
That upgraded wheel should produce a good deal more suction power. Hope it works for you.

Thanks for posting this. The way that I see it, the HF looks less efficient, IMO. Thanks for the explanation.
 

Talltim

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
650
Location
Tennessee
I added the thien baffle and wynn filter to mine. I don't get enough come into the bag to worry about a swirl. With shop clean up from general wood working and a few pens a week I doubt if I will have a quarter cup of dust make it into the bag in 6 months. All but the super fine stops in the thien trash can set up. Before we had dust everywhere. According to my wife it was, "All through the house."

I did do one easy thing that seems to help the bag seal. I went to hobby lobby and got a couple of sheets craft foam. I cut it into one inch strips about 14 inches long and glued them so the clamp that holds the bag clamps against them instead of the metal. Seems to provide a better seal.

I am very happy with my set up. I might try the impeller mod. someday. You can't have too much suction.
 
Last edited:

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
2,534
Location
Washington, IN
Some people indicate is seems slightly louder to them, others just that the noise is different. I can do some decibel readings and see where I am now but did not do them before hand.

To me, it is slightly less loud. BUT, a frequency shift goes a long way with me due to hearing loss in certain bands associated with tinnitus plus F-18s, coal mines and weapons fire when I was younger and had less regard for quality hearing protection.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
2,534
Location
Washington, IN
Plan to invert the blower directly over the can with the Thien Baffle when I get there, also. That could well be the most significant "wear factor" depending on motor bearing design. Not certain on that one yet but will save a lot of footprint and eliminate a lot of ductwork.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
2,534
Location
Washington, IN
Actually used the dust collector a bit tonight. Realized when I first fired it up after the mod I had two lines open, lathe and table saw.

Noise level is around 90-96db for those who asked. That is in a range from about 3ft out from blower to about 6ft, my immediate work area.

On the lathe noticed a big difference. With my home made intake, I typically had chips and shavings on the outside bottom edges, now that doesn't happen.

The difference at the table saw was bigger. Have the Rigid on the collapsible stand. I always presumed I was getting some of the dust before but about 60-70% was not captured. With the mid, I have cut that in half with only 30% or so not being captured.

Happy with the result.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 
Top Bottom