Help with collect chuck!!!!

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corian king

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Hello all.. I see so many people talking about the collect chucks.I was hoping someone here to tell me the pros and cons to owning one.I have been looking at the 5 piece one that PSI sells or is there a better one?
Thanks for your help!
JIM
 
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corian king said:
Hello all.. I see so many people talking about the collect chucks.I was hoping someone here to tell me the pros and cons to owning one.I have been looking at the 5 piece one that PSI sells or is there a better one?
Thanks for your help!
JIM
Click to expand...

Get one with a 3/4collet and screws onto the headstock like a chuck. I believe the psi has these features. I bought the set from woodcraft that uses a morse taper and sorry I did. Only goes to 5/8 and if you have a long blank the blank will only go in so far before it hits the taper.

Wayne
 
pros: it allows for drilling items as close to perfectly centered as possible. Very important when drilling the pseudo-celtic knots that are popular and herringbones. It's very versatile and once you have things set up many never remove it from the lathe again, just swapping inserts for whatever task they are needing. Since it grips the full diameter, it is less likely to marr the surface of a piece.

Cons: whatever you put into it needs to be somewhat rounded. The largest collets available are slightly larger than 3/4, so anything bigger won't fit in it.

PSIs comes with a 5 piece collet set that will give you the basics. Beale has a very nice one that is made in the USA but is a bit more expensive with a similar 5 piece set. Collet sets are available on ebay and otehr places and can make it were you can fit anything from 2mm up to about 21mm if memory serves.
 
I've only had mine for a few weeks, but here's what I've already been able to do.

Needed a sleeve to trim the barrel for a new kit and didn't have the correct size. Put a delrin rod into the chuck, turned it down to the correct diameter and then drilled a dead center hole to fit a size I did have.

Didn't have the correct mandrel for a bottle stopper. Cut the end off a 3/8" bolt and put it the collet and it ran as true as I could have asked for.

Drilling some round acrylic blanks for sketch pencils. Slid them in the collet to drill on the lathe. When I reached the end of the reach of my tailstock, just loosened the collet, pulled the blank further up the bit, tightened it back up and finished drilling.

Can't speak about the PSI chuck because I went with the Beall to get the 1 1/4" so that it would thread right onto the spindle on my lathe.

Bought the metric set of collets from 800watt on ebay. Tried a half dozen auctions until I lucked out on one where I was the only bidder, and got the 18pc set for his opening price. Will I ever need all those sizes? I don't know, but for the price I'll never regret having them.

If you can't tell, I'm really looking forward to all the other things I'm going to be able to do now that I have this set up. My advice would be to go for it because the only "con" I can see is the time you'll be without one before you get one.
 
In my experience the collets and collet chucks are the best way to hold round stock on the lathe. I just bought some extra larger sized collets from ebay. the 20mm round alternative blanks from Exotic Blanks fit perfectly in it. It is more consistent than using the four jaw chuck I use on larger blanks. My metal lathe is just about permanently equipped with an open collet chuck so longer material can fit through the headstock and i use my beall collet on my wood lathe for just about everything but TBC's.
 
No one has been specific to the ER 32 Collets s- there are a number of collet specs out there that are adapted to wood lathes and ER 32 is the more capable. The collets do take a fair amount of abuse, but are a consumable so you want an easy source of replacement -- hence a standard commercial type.

2mm is very small -- but I have a 2mm wood knitting needle to repair for my wife. Largest in ER 32 is metric - just over 3/4 inch.

800Watt on e-bay is a good source for inport collets - and the sets can be basic or extensive. Cash flow and storage will be the detminant for you. If you can handle dual systems, metric collets are slightly more size flexible. Inch sizes stop at 3/4 and go by 16ths vs 1 mm.

I like the head stock threaded style holder as I can use the bore -

Change lathes, change holders and the collets still work (I use the collet system for metal working as well as woodturning).

Great investment in moving towards precision.
 
I have the PSI collet chuck and couldn't live without it . I drill all my blanks on the lathe , I do have to round the blanks between centers first but I get perfectly centered holes everytime and can use a 3/4" blank for any pen kit made , even the full sized kits .
I also make my kitless pens using the collet chuck to do the entire pen . I turn and sand one half of the blank then change collets and turn and sand the other half of the blank , so no mandrel or bushings are used .
The PSI collet chuck comes with 5 collets that give a good range of sizes that are perfect to start with and individual collets are available from several vendors on ebay for around $10 each .
 
I own both Beall and 800Watt collet chucks as well as an assortment of 800watt collets. the chuck for my metal lathe is the MT type (rods do not pass through it) the other two are the thread on type for my wood lathes. They are very nice when working on long pieces of rod since the extra just sticks out the back of the head stock. I have never had a problem with not being able to fit what I needed into them but my work is strictly limited to small items such as pen, drilling bullets, making pen related tools, etc. In all cases the collet chuck is my preferred way to hold anything on the lathe provided it meats the requirement to be held in that manner. That is to say it has a round end small enough to fit in a collet. it is the most secure and accurate way I have found to mount anything on the lathe. that is saying something because I also own a Nova scroll chuck. all the chucks are ER32 by the way.
for dead on accuracy though the collets have no comparison in my experience I love them and would buy them again in a heart beat.

As for Beall being better than 800watt. I am certain there is a difference if I had enough knowledge I might even notice. But I have done the most demanding work on my metal lathe with the 800watt chuck and have not had any issues of any kind.

In the end my suggestion is to get a nice set of collets and a chuck from 800watt on E-bay and save yourself some money and increase the usability of your chuck. I have been surprised at what I will do to make something fit in the collet chuck rather than use other methods of mounting them. I even hold a pen mandrel in a collet chuck now and it has helped.
 
He He, my son showed this one to me. he set a box of magnesium on fire right under my chuck and collet. the heat took the temper out of the steel. So the answer as far as I know is that collets can be worn out. overheated and wear prematurely or simply be broken or damaged. I don't think this would happen soon when it comes to pen work. but then all it takes is one accident like a magnesium fire and a collet is pretty much consumed.

JerrySambrook said:
Ken
Could you explain why a collet is a consumable?

Jerry
Click to expand...
 
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Daniel,
That does not make it a consumable, that makes it damaged.
Yes, they were "comsumed" by fire, but under normal practice, it does not make them a consumable. And if the whole collet was over or in the same fire, then would it too be considered a consumable? or your headstock spindle, if the collet chuck was on it?
If you did the same thing to the lathe ways, would that make your lathe consumable?
BTW, your analogy also makes them mis-used, since it sounds like it was deliberately done

I have collets that are older than I am that still are good, because they are taken care of, and not misused.
Damaged is damaged, and does not make it a consumable.
 
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Hello all.
Thanks alot for all the info that was very kind of you.I think I will see if I can find 800watt on ebay and see what he offers.
JIM
 
The only problem with 800watt is that he only carries the MT holder for the ER32 collets . With this kind of holder you can only insert the blank to the depth of the collet (about 1") . With the Beall or the PSI chuck you can grip about 2" in depth or more depending on the bore of your lathes spindle .
 
I found a few thousand collet chuck entries at eBay, but no 800 watt so far... Anyone care to give us a link or at least a hint to help thin the herd a little bit?
 
JerrySambrook said:
Ken
Could you explain why a collet is a consumable?

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry -- I tend to use these a lot for both wood and metal.

If you use them a lot they do gather wear and abuse -- and once out of specs do not fight it -- replace them. They are like bushings -- they do wear or get damaged.

Tooling is to be used -- and is a consumable that can be replaced. The holder (short of serious abuse) should have a long life -- but may need to be replaced after a lot of cycles of changing collets.
 
corian king said:
ldb2000 said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SET-18-PC-ER32-...1?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e607b4189
Click to expand...

Thanks Butch!! is that the only things you need to get going? How does this system work? Does it screw onto the headstock? And how do you tighten the material into it?
Thanks again!
JIM
Click to expand...

Not trying to step on Butch's toes here, but take a look at this YouTube video by johnnycnc, it will give you a bit more information; it helped me.

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnnycnc1#p/u/3/xrqjoJCFoTU

As you will see in the video, once you have your collets you will still need the chuck to hold them. As I mentioned earlier, I got a Beall collet chuck that attaches directly to the lathe's spindle, and I'm happy with that.

And here's a link to a review of the Beall collet chuck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgqEG7qG0v0
 
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I am not Butch -- but

You need a collet body and closer ring --

PSI is at

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCDOWEL.html

This one wants to be 1 inch by 8 threads per inch -- with insert for 3/4 by 16

Any other threads, best bet is the Beall system.

ER 32 collets install into the closer ring and the closer ring is then threaded onto the body (generally the body is ont the lathe headstock threads. install the item into the collet and tighten.

The collets have a working range of 1/16th inch - so you will need the 5/16 to fit between the 1/4 and 3/8

Snug the ring down on collet to hold the object. Go to turning.
 
corian king said:
ldb2000 said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SET-18-PC-ER32-...1?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e607b4189
Click to expand...

Thanks Butch!! is that the only things you need to get going? How does this system work? Does it screw onto the headstock? And how do you tighten the material into it?
Thanks again!
JIM
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

Those are a set of collets only. You would also need a chuck to hold them. I have seen two basic styles that differ in their attachment to the lathe. One style has a Morse Taper and the other screws onto your lathe's spindle threads. I chose to buy the latter because it allows access to the spindle bore, whereas the MT style fills that space. For example, when drilling a pen blank, you can slide the blank well into the collet and the open spindle bore gives room for the bit when (if) it exits the blank.

There are two popular makes of collet chucks that screw onto the spindle threads. PSI carries a model with 1" x 8 tpi threading. It also comes with an adapter to reduce to 3/4" x 16 tpi threading. Beall makes collet chucks in a variety of sizes. These may be purchased from several sources. I bought mine from Packard Woodworks.

Now back to the collets.... Butch's link directs you to a set with a range of 1/8" to 3/4". 800watt also frequently offers an 18 pc. set with a range of 3 mm to 20 mm. Some have reported gaps in the holding capacity of the first set. See post #24 in this thread.

-Tony
 
corian king said:
ldb2000 said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SET-18-PC-ER32-...1?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e607b4189
Click to expand...

Thanks Butch!! is that the only things you need to get going? How does this system work? Does it screw onto the headstock? And how do you tighten the material into it?
Thanks again!
JIM
Click to expand...

My post was just a pointer to the 800watt ebay listing , the ER32 collets were the first thing that came up . You will still need the chuck body (collet holder) as was stated by Ken and spats .
I like the PSI chuck for a couple of reasons . First and foremost was price , I couldn't afford the Beall chuck body AND a set of collets , then or now . The PSI comes with 5 standard sized collets (1/4" to 3/4") included for $90 ($75 from amazon on sale w/free shipping) the Beall chuck body alone was $90 and another $75 to $100 for the 800watt collet set with shipping . I have since added another 5 collets ($10 each w/free shipping from a place on ebay) to fill in the missing sizes that I use on a regular basis (I bought them over a period of months so I didn't lay out the $50 at one time or buy collets I've never had a use for) .
The second reason is that the PSI chuck has knurled grips so I can hand tighten the chuck easily without wrenches (it does come with a set of Tommy bars , but I almost never need them)
As for which is better quality , the Beall or the PSI , I think they are both about the same . I have no measurable run out with my PSI so I don't think there is a difference there . I just think the PSI was a better buy overall for me .
 
corian king said:
ldb2000 said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SET-18-PC-ER32-...1?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e607b4189
Click to expand...

Thanks Butch!! is that the only things you need to get going? How does this system work? Does it screw onto the headstock? And how do you tighten the material into it?
Thanks again!
JIM
Click to expand...


To join the thread; I would go with the 18 piece metric set from 800watt. The English set may have a gap or two in the size range where you may not be able to grip on odd-ball sizes. The metric set covers the continuous range with no gaps.

In Europe collets are much more common. Check some UK sellers like Chronos for lathe mounted collet chucks with thru holes.
 
I have both the Beall and the PSI. You could argue all day which is best of the two but to me it's a wash. They are both great. The major difference is the thread size. I use the Beall on my Nova lathe and the PSI on my smaller lathe. I like them both equally. I have gotten by when needing a size collet that I didn't have by making a wood collet that fit inside an existing collet. I can't thank of any cons to a collet chuck other than if you get one that doesn't take the er32 collet. I diffidently recommended sticking with the Beall or PSI chucks.
 
ldb2000 said:
I drill all my blanks on the lathe , I do have to round the blanks between centers first but I get perfectly centered holes everytime and can use a 3/4" blank for any pen kit made , even the full sized kits .
Click to expand...

I'd like to drill my blanks this way for the same reason, but the problem I've run into is that my tailstock has just a bit of "play" in it as I bring it up to address the blank. I get it that if the drill bit isn't perfectly centered and square to the blank, that the resulting hole will be oversized. The "play" in the tailstock seems to be necessary to slide it back and forth-if I tighten the lever to the point where there is no play, the tailstock wont move. Any practical suggestions on how to make sure the drill is centered and square?
 
Shock me said:
I'd like to drill my blanks this way for the same reason, but the problem I've run into is that my tailstock has just a bit of "play" in it as I bring it up to address the blank. I get it that if the drill bit isn't perfectly centered and square to the blank, that the resulting hole will be oversized. The "play" in the tailstock seems to be necessary to slide it back and forth-if I tighten the lever to the point where there is no play, the tailstock wont move. Any practical suggestions on how to make sure the drill is centered and square?
Click to expand...

A certain amount of "play" (or "slop" depending on who you are talking to) is inevitable between any two surfaces that must slide. A wood lathe is inherently not machined to as precise tolerances as a metal lathe, so will have more. However, there is some in a metal lathe too, it just depends how precise you are capable (or willing) to measure.

To drill the most accurate size hole your lathe is capable of, you are correct that you need to have the drill bit centered on the axis of rotation of the blank. Notice I said centered on the axis, not necessarily centered on the blank itself. One way to do this if you are using standard split point type bits, is to have the drill mounted to the tailstock ram (however you do so) and with the ram back as far as it will go, tighten up the ram retaining screw. then loosen the tailstock and slide up till the bit ALMOST touches the turning face of the blank (note, it helps if the face of the blank has been squared, or slightly concaved, as accurately as possible just before this step) leave the tailstock slide lock slightly loose, and eyeball the bit tip as close to the center as possible. loosen the ram lock just enough to advance it to make contact before you tighten down the tailstock lock. the tip of the drill will migrate to the center of the blank, moving the tailstock with it to (almost perfect) alignment AT THE POINT OF CONTACT. Lock the tailstock down and drill a pretty darn precise hole in your blank.

Now keep in mind that this procedure only makes sure that the tip of the bit is touching the center of rotation of the face of the blank. This does nothing to assure that the whole axis of rotation is aligned with the direction of travel of the drill bit. Nor does it ensure that the drill bit itself is in alignment with this direction of travel. The first is influenced by the design specification and conformance of your tailstock assy and lathe ways, and the second is dependant on the quality of your jacobs chuck (or the drill bit itself it you are using a MT shank drill bit (which I prefer if possible)). In most cases (including every penmaking scenario I can imagine) these last two factors are of negligable relevance, but in some ultra precise machining processes, can become important. (so my baby brother tells me)
 
Shock me said:
ldb2000 said:
I drill all my blanks on the lathe , I do have to round the blanks between centers first but I get perfectly centered holes everytime and can use a 3/4" blank for any pen kit made , even the full sized kits .
Click to expand...

I'd like to drill my blanks this way for the same reason, but the problem I've run into is that my tailstock has just a bit of "play" in it as I bring it up to address the blank. I get it that if the drill bit isn't perfectly centered and square to the blank, that the resulting hole will be oversized. The "play" in the tailstock seems to be necessary to slide it back and forth-if I tighten the lever to the point where there is no play, the tailstock wont move. Any practical suggestions on how to make sure the drill is centered and square?
Click to expand...


From the way you described your problem, it sounds like you're trying to advance the whole tailstock to drill the blank. Is that correct?

I just bring the tailstock up close, lock it in place so that it's solid, and then turn the hand wheel to advance the bit into the blank. If this is what you're doing as well, then I'm not sure what the "play" is that you're experiencing; it is beyond my limited (although increasing) knowledge, and I can't offer any other suggestions. Perhaps if you include the model of the lathe that you're using then someone with the same one may have some ideas.

Good luck.
Or, you can just wait an extra minute and read what jskeen said. Sort of points out the difference between someone who knows what they're talking about (him) and someone (me) who knows... well, maybe not so much. :biggrin: But at least now we both know more. Gotta love this site!​
 
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Spats139 said:
I just bring the tailstock up close, lock it in place so that it's solid
Click to expand...

It's this step where the "slop" comes into play.I can move the tailstock a tiny bit off axis and don't know where the truest position is before I lock it.

Jskeens's suggestion is brilliant as always. As I think it through, since I first turn my blanks between centers to round them and reduce the size to fit my Beall chuck collet, I don't need to "eyeball" the center, I can use the dimple left behind by the point of the live center, yes?

It might seem fussy, but I ruined a nice tru-stone Jr. Statesman upper barrel because the 12.5 mm hole was slightly oversized. It glued up just fine, but when doing the final turning, the small space between tube and blank made the whole thing tear apart. Lesson learned.
 
If you are dealing with a high value blank -- I like to start the hole with a center drill.

Depending on your lathe, it is possible to turn between centers, move to collet chuck or pin jaw mount with the live center still being used (extended) to mount the blank, and withdrawl of the live center and replacement with jacobs chuck and center drill for a starter hole -- then a drill -- with the tailstock still locked down in the same location.

Otherwise you need to establish best fit for the lateral tolerance in the mounting of the tailstock in the ways. Some have used dial indicators to find a good fit by pushing the tail stock against the ways. Other by pulling to the ways. Consistent practices will provide consistent results and outcomes --

Consistent results can allow compensation -- change in drill bits to make holes smaller, etc.
 
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