Full size carbide tools for pen turning?

[Mont]

Looking at getting my first set of lathe tools. Most likely carbide as I figure I'll ease into HSS and sharpening at some point down the road. I may take a few day turning class locally come spring that focuses on HSS.

I do plan on using the tools for pen turning primarily. That being said, I'd also like to practice with some other lathe projects every now and then like a bowl here, lidded box there.

So I'm faced with - getting a set of "pen" size tools (or mini/mid... 12-13") and primarily use that for pen turning and other small projects. And then getting the full size tools when I'm ready to tackle the bigger projects. OR, then I thought... why not just get a full sized so I can tackle anything my 12" lathe can handle.

I honestly don't know if there are any downsides to pen turning (or other small projects) with full sized tools or not?

I figured I would ask those with experience here how they approach this?

Any and all experiences, advice, absolutely appreciated!

 

[1080Wayne]

Full size will work fine . That is what most of us use .

 

[jttheclockman]

Full size, easier to control

 

[monophoto]

So we're talking about size again? Some people around here have one-track minds.

Size' could mean one of two different things. One is handle length - if the handle is too long, you can always grip closer to the working end, but you can't grip past the end if the handle is too short. So longer handles generally provide more flexibility. There could be exceptions to this rule; for example, it might be desirable to have a shorter handle is where the tool is to be used for very fine work such as in thread chasing or with point tools.

The other issue, especially with carbide, is the size of the cutter. This came up in a live chat session with Capt Eddie many years ago, and I recall the Captain saying that a smaller cutter will be more aggressive than a larger cutter.

 

[dogcatcher]

I only use full size chisels for everything. From the largest bowls to the smallest trinkets.

 

[howsitwork]

Will

Bear in mind that "full size " tools will vibrate less as the mass of the tool will dampen any vibration tendencies. I use HSS but that's because I do all sort of other turning as well as pens. I did make a small 1/4" skew chisel from a round HSS blank and find this very useful for pen turning . It's also great for detail beading on larger projects .
Ive not gone down the carbide route yet . Might try it some day but I am happy with my hss tools .

Christmas is coming what does Santa want to give you ?

 

[Edgar]

I use small (12.5" length & 3/8" bar) tools for pens & other small projects and large (24.5" length & 1/2" bar) for bowls & other larger projects. It's a personal preference - I just like the feel of the shorter, lighter tools when working on small things better than the full size tools.

 

[Drewby108]

I use full size for most of what I do, but I've been finding that once the blank is round I like using smaller tools for detail work. Trying to make really small details feels more unwieldy on a full sized tool.

 

[wouldentu2?]

Full size tools are more expensive than pen size.

 

[Mont]

Lots of great replies here, genuinely, thank you to everyone for the insights!

Based on folks feed back and experiences, I think I'll go ahead and go for the full sizes to start out with given they'd do just as well on pens and such.

I'm excited to get started, and am feeling thankful I found this community!

 

[TDahl]

Go full size. You won't regret it.

 

[montmill]

You might want to get an extra set of negative rake cutters too. I find they're much less aggressive and let me get the finish I'm looking for easier.

 

[philipff]

Sorry to disagree with several views expressed but standard lathe tools (not carbide) have worked for me for 20 years. I will take a 1/2in bowl gouge and a nice skew to finish and that is all one needs. P

 

[Mont]

You might want to get an extra set of negative rake cutters too. I find they're much less aggressive and let me get the finish I'm looking for easier.

Thank you for this suggestion and I am totally taking your advice here after reading more about negative rake cutters!

I actually just reached out to the vendor a few moments ago, and they almost instantly replied back they'd be happy to add one to my order.

 

[Mont]

Sorry to disagree with several views expressed but standard lathe tools (not carbide) have worked for me for 20 years. I will take a 1/2in bowl gouge and a nice skew to finish and that is all one needs. P

For me, no worries at all as I appreciate and respect all input!

Admittedly, I'm planning to delve more into using standard tools at some point down the road after I have a little more experience under my belt.

Quick anecdote - I took a oneday turning class this past year, and loved it - which led me down this path initially. We used an HSS bowl gouge I believe it was. Hehe, I made more than a few mistakes in trying to find the sweet spots of correct bevel angles, trying to not have the tool jitter on me, and just when I got the bowl done... I saw one little imperfection on the outside rim I "HAD" to fix... And I did fix it... But, when I went to turn off the lathe, I was still holding the tool... bowl still spinning.... I wasn't paying attention to the location of the tool in my hand, and the tool and bowl decided to say hello to one another, and left a gouge on the outside of the bowl. Lesson learned. And I now look at that mark as giving the bowl as a mark of originality.

 

[egnald]

Greetings from Nebraska.

I started out with the pen sized carbide tools and upgraded to the Mid-sized Easy Wood Tools. The internet research I did pointed me to the mid-size rather than full sized. In addition to cost, the factor that lead me down that path were general comments from many that indicated mid-sized tools for turnings up to 6-inches and full-sized for turnings larger than 6-inches. (As to the brand, it was because they were available on the rack at my somewhat local WoodCraft store.

The EWT Mid-Size tools are about 21-inches long and have 3/8-inch by 7-inch rectangular tool bars. By comparison, the EWT full-sized tools are 24.5-inches overall and have 1/2-inch by 8.5-inch rectangular tool bars. Just a few inches longer but with a beefier bar.

Since then I have made several of my own tools using the EWT brand as a general guide. I made them using hickory handles and 3/8-inch steel tool bars that I fashioned from 3/8-inch steel stock I bought from McMaster Carr (or possibly from Grainger). I use carbide tips that are compatible with the EWT brand that I buy from AZ Carbide. I essentially shape the end of the bar with a Dremel tool and then drill and tap a mounting hole for the carbide. I fill the back side of the handle with a hand full of 38 caliber lead bullets to add some weight to the outboard side (personal preference). I found some stainless steel PEX plumbing fittings that I used as ferrules.

The driving factor for building my own tools was 1) to have some slightly modified tools (related to the angle that the cutter meets the workpiece and the rake angles of the cutters themselves. 2) to get rid of the need to change cutters when going from a radiused-square cutter to a square square cutter for example. 3) to reduce the cost. I found my cost to be only about 25% of those that I purchased so I could afford to have more tools! And, finally, 4) to gain the satisfaction I get from turning with tools I made myself.

To address your question however, for flexibility I would start with mid-size or full-size tools rather than the short ones made specifically for pen turning. Of course this is based entirely on my own personal experience and what seems to work well for me in my case.

I hope you continue to find the joy in turning that I have found.

Regards, Dave

PS Here are a couple of thumbnail pictures of some of the tools that I have made (click on them for larger images).