Freedom????

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I didn't go to preschool. I will be done with school this year. That's 11 years. ( junior senior in one year). College is payed for mostly by me or scholarships.
A couple of things - you are planning on college, that is 4 more years of school, you may not have gone to preschool but I think you probably did go to kindergarten (be very unusual if you didn't.) so it will be 16 years in school.

I'm glad you grew up where you could still be a kid during your childhood - trust me, that is very rare for someone your age today and you will be the better as an adult for having had that opportunity rather than having your whole life planned out and organized for you.
 
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I have two sons(stepsons) that didnt have a father until three years ago. they are 17 and 16. They used to do nothing but sit inside and watch tv and play video games up until a year ago when they moved to Ga with me. After a couple of months of that, I told them either go outside and hang with the guys or I will find something for you to do. There were a few times where I had to put them to work pulling weeds or carrying off tree trimmings before they figure it out. Now all I have to do is say "be some place else" and we dont see them till dark or they get hungry.
 
One thing that really bothers me [trying to figure out why] is that although the government (at all levels) claims far more authority over our lives today than it did 60 years ago - we have far less respect for authority figures now than then. Particularily, teachers, park rangers, policemen, the postmaster, the Justice of the Peace and others who represented government.
 
One thing that really bothers me [trying to figure out why] is that although the government (at all levels) claims far more authority over our lives today than it did 60 years ago - we have far less respect for authority figures now than then. Particularily, teachers, park rangers, policemen, the postmaster, the Justice of the Peace and others who represented government.


Here's my opinion. Its "because" government IS in our daily lives, more today than 60 years ago. It makes us doubt what we can do or not do. We start looking over our shoulder to see who might be watching. Are we breaking some new law? Am I allowed to do this or that?

We begin to distrust. We don't like losing our freedoms that we once thought were a given. Everytime we pass a new law we lose some old freedom.

Because of current realities, and most of us probably know what these might be, we are going to lose more freedoms. But we don't have to like it.

The total reason is a whole lot more complicated and I wish i could go on, but not appropriate here.
Russ
 
And the probelms that are created by the civil

bureaucracy have significant impact on the people that they were hired to help. and they are never held responsible, somebody else is at fault.
 
One thing that really bothers me [trying to figure out why] is that although the government (at all levels) claims far more authority over our lives today than it did 60 years ago - we have far less respect for authority figures now than then. Particularily, teachers, park rangers, policemen, the postmaster, the Justice of the Peace and others who represented government.

In my opinion its because less and less children are taught any form of respect by their parents. As a result they don't respect anyone and parents write it off by saying "Oh he has <insert name of new behavioral disorder fad here>". I have said on several occasions my children will either love me and do what I ask or fear me and do what I say, but either way they will respect me, I hope its out of love. I feel like respecting your parents is the first and most important thing to learn because it influences how you treat every other person you ever meet.
 
A lot of it is because parents aren't ALLOWED to discipline their children. If my kids misbehaved they got the flat of my hand on their backside. Today, if you smack your kid, child protective services shows up at your door.
 
In my opinion its because less and less children are taught any form of respect by their parents. As a result they don't respect anyone and parents write it off by saying "Oh he has <insert name of new behavioral disorder fad here>". I have said on several occasions my children will either love me and do what I ask or fear me and do what I say, but either way they will respect me, I hope its out of love. I feel like respecting your parents is the first and most important thing to learn because it influences how you treat every other person you ever meet.[/quote]

Amen! My dad was an Army sergeant, so I was taught respect, whether out of fear or love. I think that carries over into adulthood; we respect others whether we agree with them or not. Even today, I address people as Mr/Mrs unless they tell me to call them by their first name. I get strange/suspicious looks when I open a door for women at the store. Whatever happened to common courtesy and manners? It's all about "me" and "my rights" these days. Yeah, I feared my dad when I was a kid, but am grateful for the way he raised me.
 
A lot of it is because parents aren't ALLOWED to discipline their children. If my kids misbehaved they got the flat of my hand on their backside. Today, if you smack your kid, child protective services shows up at your door.

That is one nice thing Kansas has going for it. Here you are allowed to spank your child as long as it is with your hand (no paddles anymore but mom and dad's hands always worked just as well) and with out intent to harm.

I did recently find an interesting article on one person's take of what caused the societal shift. How Dr. Spock destroyed America
 
A lot of it is because parents aren't ALLOWED to discipline their children. If my kids misbehaved they got the flat of my hand on their backside. Today, if you smack your kid, child protective services shows up at your door.

That is one nice thing Kansas has going for it. Here you are allowed to spank your child as long as it is with your hand (no paddles anymore but mom and dad's hands always worked just as well) and with out intent to harm.

I did recently find an interesting article on one person's take of what caused the societal shift. How Dr. Spock destroyed America
I have said since the late 1960s that Dr Spock was one of worst things that ever happened to America. I did read his book and decided it was the easiest way I could think of to raise a family of spoiled brats. I had no real idea at that time though of how bad it was.

I also assigned a share of the blame to Little League, my feeling then was the same as it is now...organized sports are bad for kids below high school. I knew a guy (he was a neighbor a few years younger than me who played little league - I was too old when it came to our town) who when he was almost 50 years old, the highlight of his life was still hitting three home runs in a little league game.

That's also why I think that even 20 years ago when my kids were in high school and still today, high school sports are over emphasized too.

My children were all pretty decent athletes and all were three season athletes and they all spent more time on sports than on any academic subject.

They faced "punishment" if they missed a practice.

Practices were scheduled on days when school was not in session i.e. snow days.

Fall sports started two weeks before school and covered both Saturday and Sunday as well as week days.

Wresting and basketball scheduled practice and games over the Christmas break.

Fall sports were often not even ended when the winter sports practices started.

Kids were "honored" for sports accomplishments far more often and far more publicly than for academic achievment. (Trust me on this - 3 of my daughters were female athlete of the year when they were seniors)

In my opinion all of that kind of thing sends the wrong message to children.

I played both basketball and baseball in high school. we got a 'letter' for varsety basketball in our senior year.

Practice before the start of school was forbidden. Football practice at the bigger schools started when school started.

We could not start basketball practice until after the 1st of November.

If there was no school (for any reason) there was no practice and no games.

There were athletic scholarships but the smaller (division !!!) colleges did very little, if any recruiting. Their teams were 'walk on' and tryouts.
 
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I have said since the late 1960s that Dr Spock was one of worst things that ever happened to America. I did read his book and decided it was the easiest way I could think of to raise a family of spoiled brats. I had no real idea at that time though of how bad it was.

I also assigned a share of the blame to Little League, my feeling then was the same as it is now...organized sports are bad for kids below high school. I knew a guy (he was a neighbor a few years younger than me who played little league - I was too old when it came to our town) who when he was almost 50 years old, the highlight of his life was still hitting three home runs in a little league game.

That's also why I think that even 20 years ago when my kids were in high school and still today, high school sports are over emphasized too.

My children were all pretty decent athletes and all were three season athletes and they all spent more time on sports than on any academic subject.

They faced "punishment" if they missed a practice.

Practices were scheduled on days when school was not in session i.e. snow days.

Fall sports started two weeks before school and covered both Saturday and Sunday as well as week days.

Wresting and basketball scheduled practice and games over the Christmas break.

Fall sports were often not even ended when the winter sports practices started.

Kids were "honored" for sports accomplishments far more often and far more publicly than for academic achievment. (Trust me on this - 3 of my daughters were female athlete of the year when they were seniors)

In my opinion all of that kind of thing sends the wrong message to children.

I played both basketball and baseball in high school. we got a 'letter' for varsety basketball in our senior year.

Practice before the start of school was forbidden. Football practice at the bigger schools started when school started.

We could not start basketball practice until after the 1st of November.

If there was no school (for any reason) there was no practice and no games.

There were athletic scholarships but the smaller (division !!!) colleges did very little, if any recruiting. Their teams were 'walk on' and tryouts.

I couldn't agree more with this entire post... I never read Dr. Spock, and raised my son the way I was raised... taught him to think for himself, not be sassy with adults and be respectful.... today he's the owner of his own company, doing very well for himself, even though he was really only a mediocre student in school. He once interviewed for a job, they interviewer asked if he programmed in a particular language, my son said "Oh sure, I can do that"... he was hired and had to buy a book and teach himself to program in that language over a weekend... he worked for the company for 3 or 4 years and was considered a top notch programmer, even promoted to a managerial position after a year or two...

I never played organized sports in school... I was a working kid and didn't have time for athletics after school... but my school did start football practice in August before school started in September. But they also started band practice then too... the athletes "lettered" if they were varsity and played a certain percentage and earned a certain level of achievement... it was not automatic.

I did play a lot of sandlot ball during lunch and recesses... we often played full tackle football on the school ground during lunch... more often than not, I played in cowboy boots as they was my normal footwear... as it was for a lot of the boys in my school.

I noticed an article in Time magazine that "it's now time to pay our college athletes"????? Shouldn't their pay be a good education. In my uninformed opinion, one of the reason colleges cost so much is we spend way too much on the athletic department and use it as a money maker for the schools, which do not benefit the students, but goes to the bottom line of the schools and to pay the athletic department salaries. I'm an advocate of paying teachers better, but for the life of me cannot fathom why a football coach - who is in fact supposed to be a teacher - gets millions of dollars in salary and the English, History, Math and Science professor's get so much less.... our school systems has it's values definitely upside down.
I also notice that schools are traveling more to do games... Tennessee travel to Oregon for a game... they players lost a couple of days of class time and cost the college several thousand dollars (I'm pretty sure)... when did schools start to travel across country for games... what happened to playing in your local leagues... my high school's furthest opponent was only about 50 miles away...

Never played little league, but remember that when it started in one of the bigger towns I lived in as a pre-teen and early teen that it was "try-outs", with no guarantee that you would get on a team, and the only trophies received was if the team was successful and won their league... you didn't get a trophy for just showing up and sitting on the bench.
 
Leroy, I was born in 46 so can relate allot to what others have stated. When I was about 12 and didn't have homework I used to drive our pickup about 6 miles to the farm and work in the field until it got dark. We lived in a small town because we couldn't get power to our house on the farm. You respected your elders, your parents and anyone you had a regular conversation with. "Please", "thank you" and Mr. or Mrs.were mandatory and you were reminded of that if you happened to forget. Our son was brought up with the same rules and it has done him well for 45 years. I still call my grade 3 & grade 4 teacher Mrs. ----. Until a few years ago when her dementia got bad she used to always tell me to call her by her first name but I never could. We're at the point now where we are the elders and most of our friends kids and grandkids call us Mr. or Mrs. because of what their parents taught them even though we've told them to call us by our first names. If you got the strap at school you sure didn't come home and complain because there was usually a 2 for 1 special at home. If I had talked to my parents the way some of the kids do today I would still be looking for my teeth. I really feel sorry for the young kids today.
 
Amen! My dad was an Army sergeant, so I was taught respect, whether out of fear or love. I think that carries over into adulthood; we respect others whether we agree with them or not. Even today, I address people as Mr/Mrs unless they tell me to call them by their first name. I get strange/suspicious looks when I open a door for women at the store. Whatever happened to common courtesy and manners? It's all about "me" and "my rights" these days. Yeah, I feared my dad when I was a kid, but am grateful for the way he raised me.



The only person in the world that I ever feared was my momma because she was the only person in the world that I would never raise a hand to. Momma taught me to respect my elders, respect my teachers, respect authority, and most importantly to respect myself.
 
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I noticed an article in Time magazine that "it's now time to pay our college athletes"????? Shouldn't their pay be a good education. In my uninformed opinion, one of the reason colleges cost so much is we spend way too much on the athletic department and use it as a money maker for the schools, which do not benefit the students, but goes to the bottom line of the schools and to pay the athletic department salaries. I'm an advocate of paying teachers better, but for the life of me cannot fathom why a football coach - who is in fact supposed to be a teacher - gets millions of dollars in salary and the English, History, Math and Science professor's get so much less.... our school systems has it's values definitely upside down.
I agree college is already too expensive, in my opinion, due in large part to how many full ride scholarships are given out for sports. We had several people in my graduating class who were at best "C" average students getting full rides to college because they played one sport or another well. Most of them I wouldn't even consider great players just good players. Yet my friends who were mostly "A" average students couldn't get any kind of scholarship.

Leroy, I was born in 46 so can relate allot to what others have stated. When I was about 12 and didn't have homework I used to drive our pickup about 6 miles to the farm and work in the field until it got dark. We lived in a small town because we couldn't get power to our house on the farm. You respected your elders, your parents and anyone you had a regular conversation with. "Please", "thank you" and Mr. or Mrs.were mandatory and you were reminded of that if you happened to forget. Our son was brought up with the same rules and it has done him well for 45 years. I still call my grade 3 & grade 4 teacher Mrs. ----. Until a few years ago when her dementia got bad she used to always tell me to call her by her first name but I never could. We're at the point now where we are the elders and most of our friends kids and grandkids call us Mr. or Mrs. because of what their parents taught them even though we've told them to call us by our first names. If you got the strap at school you sure didn't come home and complain because there was usually a 2 for 1 special at home. If I had talked to my parents the way some of the kids do today I would still be looking for my teeth. I really feel sorry for the young kids today.
Yeah I have seen a post on Facebook several times that says "If I had spoke to my parents the way most children today do I wouldn't be alive now to write this post." and it couldn't have been more true. Usually when I got in trouble at school though I didn't have to tell my parents, the call had already been made. Usually when I got in trouble it was for fighting and the question I got when I got home was always "Did you start the fight?" followed by "Did you end the fight?" and in my house the answer to those questions had better be "No ma'am I did not start it." and "Yes sir I did finish it." or I was in for a whooping.

The only person in the world that I ever feared was my momma because she was the only person in the world that I would never raise a hand to. Momma taught me to respect my elders, respect my teachers, respect authority, and most importantly to respect myself.
I raised my hand to my mother ONCE, we were playing around and she hit me on the arm so I hit her a little harder trying to show I was stronger, she proceeded to knock me through a wall. When I stood up she told me if I ever forgot who she was again I would get a real lesson.
 
We paint with a wide brush when we disparage all the youth of today. But it is a brush which has been used for centuries, from Hesiod in the eight century BC to Plato and Socrates to the WWII veterans who bemoaned the invasion of the Beatles, Elvis and rock and roll music, children have been an easy target. And throughout history there have been great swaths of children who have accomplished far less than their abilities would indicate possible. I've got six kids. Five attended college, four on full academic scholarships and the fifth had her choice of an academic or music scholarship (she chose the upright bass scholarship). The sixth is in eighth grade. Many young people today are hard working, contributing members of our society, defenders of our freedom and worthy of our respect.

There always will be and always have been examples of individuals who have misbehaved, proven lazy and fully dependent upon others. But the opposite is also true. Which group we choose to focus upon will determine our disposition regarding the next generation. They live in a different time than we did and thus have different restriction upon their freedoms and different opportunities.

When we focus on the best, not the worst; the beautiful, not the ugly; the things to praise and not the things to curse I believe we will find our attitude towards the next generation will improve. Whether the young people of today play little league, football, the upright bass or Call of Duty in their spare time is not an indicator of their value but an indicator of their interests (or sometimes the interests of their parents).

Just a word in defense of the young people of today.

Steve
 
We paint with a wide brush when we disparage all the youth of today. But it is a brush which has been used for centuries, from Hesiod in the eight century BC to Plato and Socrates to the WWII veterans who bemoaned the invasion of the Beatles, Elvis and rock and roll music, children have been an easy target. And throughout history there have been great swaths of children who have accomplished far less than their abilities would indicate possible. I've got six kids. Five attended college, four on full academic scholarships and the fifth had her choice of an academic or music scholarship (she chose the upright bass scholarship). The sixth is in eighth grade. Many young people today are hard working, contributing members of our society, defenders of our freedom and worthy of our respect.

There always will be and always have been examples of individuals who have misbehaved, proven lazy and fully dependent upon others. But the opposite is also true. Which group we choose to focus upon will determine our disposition regarding the next generation. They live in a different time than we did and thus have different restriction upon their freedoms and different opportunities.

When we focus on the best, not the worst; the beautiful, not the ugly; the things to praise and not the things to curse I believe we will find our attitude towards the next generation will improve. Whether the young people of today play little league, football, the upright bass or Call of Duty in their spare time is not an indicator of their value but an indicator of their interests (or sometimes the interests of their parents).

Just a word in defense of the young people of today.

Steve

I was going to respond at length, but I think you articulated quite well in a couple of paragraphs.

But..., when we think of our youth of today, it seems many of us expect everything to be all True, Good, and Beautiful with them, and forget how we acted as kids.

I am not a proponent of Dr. Spock either. IMHO, probably the worst single thing that happened to parents. We, many not all, began to doubt our own abilities as parents.

Always(almost), thinking that how we got "the message" from our parents, many of us somehow feel that that method was the best for all. In other words we seem to pass along our experiences to our own kids. Sometimes good, oftentimes, not so good. Yet we still are ready to defend those same experiences.

I was a fairly strict father in correcting my daughter, but without having to mete out corporal punishment. Restrictive measures and reminders of what is expected of her in order to become a positive person(by modelling same), was quite enough. Consequently, she graduated from UN. of Tx. at Austin, Tex. My 3 grandkids (all TAG students) are in EE. school and Pre-Med school, and grandson in the 7th grade(Tag student). He also plays football.

Sorry, I am starting to ramble, I quit. One or two final observations, in my experiences with FB, from High school level to College level, football not only pays for itself, but many other sports as well. Of course it all depends on the size of the schools.
Also, someone placed some blame on Little League.
Its not the league, necessarily, but many parents born out of the Spock generation who have formulated and "Wimped" up the rules of the game.
Russ
 
I agree college is already too expensive, in my opinion, due in large part to how many full ride scholarships are given out for sports. We had several people in my graduating class who were at best "C" average students getting full rides to college because they played one sport or another well. Most of them I wouldn't even consider great players just good players. Yet my friends who were mostly "A" average students couldn't get any kind of scholarship.

Generally speaking I think that is at best only partly true. Many highly rated and very expensive colleges and universities don't give any athletic scholarships at all (such as. Ivy League schools like Yale, Harvard, Princeton etc.). College Atheletics cost too much but I don't think that over all it's scholarships that are the problem. I recently saw where at some Division I schools the Scholarships were only 16 to 20 per cent of the cost of Athletics....Facilities, Salaries and Games were a much bigger share.

Since all colleges seem to be rapidly increasing in cost, whether they have costly athletic programs or not I'm more inclined to think that the reasons for the high costs lie elsewhere but I'm not sure where. I do know that for at least 35 or 40 years the cost of attending college as risen well faster than the general cost of living (which has been more than fast enough) In 1940 it cost $50 Tuition to go to Yale, in 1950 835, in 1960 it cost $2500, in 1970 it was over $6000 and on and on.
 
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