Finally Getting a CA Tech. (Long)

[Tn-Steve]

Hey Gang,

I apologize in advance for this post being so long and detailed, but I'm a Tech Trainer by profession, and for me, this is being brief )

I'm new at this, (maybe 6 pens under my belt), but have been working on getting that CA finish down. I started with Russ Fairfields BLO technique, was smooth, but not what I wanted, experimented around with a few others, and think I have one that works for me. That means that I'm starting to "Catch Lights", that the light reflected in the finish comes back as a sharp single point, not just a spread-out glow.

I did a Paduk pen, skew left it pretty smooth, hit it with some BLO and burnished it in, to fill the pores and pop up the grain. Then I sanded it 320-MM12000, using a light touch and finishing each grit with the lathe off, sanding lengthwise, and wiping off all the dust. At the end of this the wood was glowing, as it always does for me at this point, waiting for me to screw it up. I had a plan this time, I was going to make that finish work this time.

I did 3 coats thin CA, using the "CA-The New Way" technique. Used a VERY light touch with the accelerator, maybe a 1/2 second spritz aimed about 6 - 8 inches above the pen. let just a breath of it drift down, let it spin for about 30 seconds, then apply the next one. Finally I MM (wet) just the last 5 grades very lightly)

After that it was really catching light, but the grain was still a bit open, so I applied 3 drops of MED CA to a paper towel, wiped it across one of the blanks with the lathe off, quickly and smoothly. I fired up the lathe (around 600 or so) and quickly started to work it with a paper towel with a goodly amount of BLO on it. (Russ's Technique). Once it started to cut a good strong light, I let it just spin while I got the next application ready. Cut off the lathe, hit the second half of the blank, same procedure. Did a total of 4 coats MED, and it was looking good. Still time to mess it up however.

Next very light wet sanding with the last 5 grades of MM, hey we might be on to something. No scratches, looks good, could use some more "glow" however...

Usually I use a good slather of Mothers Mag and Alum Polish on the blanks, and polish it off on the lathe with more Viva, pinching it pretty firmly between my fingers, almost like doing a friction polish. This time I decided to use just a touch of the polish and a very light pressure, keep getting fresh paper on it, and just let it work itself out. I did the same thing with just a couple of drips of Hutts Crystal Plastic Polish and to paraphrase "My Fair Lady"..."By Jove, I think he's got it!!!"

I had crisp bright sharp reflections, (Not like you pros make, but enough to make me think I'm on the right track), the wood GLOWED in the light, almost like it was lit from the inside, there was almost a "Opalescent" (Sp?) effect coming from it, as you moved the pen in the light it seemed to wave at you. It's not perfect, but it's the best I've done so far. Worst part, I made it as a gift for a friend, now I'm not sure I want to give it up. :frown:

I would love any feedback on what I'm doing. I know from experience, (from both sides of the issue) that one of the hardest things to do is try and teach something that is very much a "Feel" skill to some degree.


Lessons Learned...

1. Lighter is probably better than Harder on sanding
2. Yes, Polish is an abrasive, not a wax
3. A Buffer would probably make this easier, as any scratches would run the LENGTH of the pen, the same way the light reflects.
4. Even Steve can Learn

Thanks in advance,

Steve W

 

[Skye]

Hey Gang,

1. Then I sanded it 320-MM12000,.....................
2. I did 3 coats thin CA,.............
3. Finally I MM (wet) just the last 5 grades very lightly).........
4. I applied 3 drops of MED CA to a paper towel, wiped it across one of the blanks .....
quickly started to work it with a paper towel with a goodly amount of BLO on it......
5. got the next application ready.....
6. Did a total of 4 coats MED....
7. Next very light wet sanding with the last 5 grades of MM,.....
8. I use a good slather of Mothers Mag and Alum Polish on the blanks, and polish it off .....
9. I did the same thing with just a couple of drips of Hutts Crystal Plastic Polish..

1. I'd pass on going all the way to 12,000 on naked wood. Not only do I think it's overkill, I think it can close the grain.
2. I'm guessing this is acting as your sanding sealer. 3 seems excessive.
3. If you're going to sand this, you should probably start earlier than the last 5 grades.
4. You're now putting 4 coats of CA over 3 sealing coats, which have already been brought to 12,000.
5.
6.
7. Again, you're taking uneven CA (4 coats of med) and using only the last 5 MM pages. I can't imagine it's going to be as uniform as it should, considering those grits really can't remove material.
8. Now you're using amuminum polish ontop of 12,000 MM, which to me seems opposite, but I don't know the grit of that polish. Seems like a backtracking though.
9. If 8 is a backtrack, you're now trying to recoupe the shine. I'd just hit it with some Trade Secret or something after step 7.

One thing I haven't seen in your process is using the lower grits anywhere on the CA other than the first step or two, which I think is a boo-boo.

You can't argue with results, but there's also the idea of 'work smart, not hard' sometimes.

 

[Daniel]

The great thing about being the maker is you can make another one just to prove it was not a mistake.
also the word you are looking for in the Shine is Catoyance.
it is that almost three dimensional glow the grain throws back when it is really polished.
Congrats on getting to the next level and remember this was only the first time. it's just like the first pen. they get better even if at the time you don't see how it is going to happen.

 

[leehljp]

I know from experience, (from both sides of the issue) that one of the hardest things to do is try and teach something that is very much a "Feel" skill to some degree.

You hit the nail on the head with that! You are doing great and keep on.

I am the slowest learner around here. It took me 18 months to learn to apply CA consistently and with predictable results. My biggest mistake was making my first or second pen come out great with CA. I thought I "knew" it. Then I learned that it was just a fluke! I kept at it and within a year after learning how to perfect the finish everytime, - dadgum it if I didn't come down with severe allergies to CA and had to build a good DC system and start wearing a mask!

 

[Larry Gottlieb]

One of the things that I did in my long journey to the present finish is to continue to evaluate the steps.
Do I really need to sand to 12,000 micromesh?
Do I need to sand longitudinally with 600, 800, etc?
After the CA coats cure, what works best to get the gloss I want, EEE, car polish?
How can I avoid having to sand CA?
and many many more.

To help answer these questions I use high magnification of a dissecting microscope and visual comparisons by a highly critical and sharp eyed observer.

The journey is not over and there will continue to be changes.

Just remember: It's just wood and who wants perfection.

Larry

 

[jkeithrussell]

Skye,
Have you posted somewhere with your CA procedure? I've seen some of your photos and you obviously have a good system.
Thanks.

 

[Skye]

Somewhere. Mine is kind of touch-n-go, so I wouldn't call it a procedure, but it normally goes something like:

1. Sand blank with 320.
2. Healthy application of thin CA to pop and seal the grain.
3. Generous applications of medium CA. Fold a paper towel to the width of one blank. Run a bead on the edge. With the lathe at 500, introduce the CA, little wiggle as it starts to get sticky.
4. With my roughest MM, sand the blank until there's a uniform haze over it. Just don't sand it all off. Any lines that are still transparent will cause a low spot. Sand and cross sand.
5. Repeat steps 3 and four one or two more times.
6. MM with accelerator as a lubricant to 12000.
7. If I have the urge, I may white diamond it followed by a clean wheel. If I've got something like Trade Secret I may apply it. Both these are rather optional.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[talbot]

also the word you are looking for in the Shine is Catoyance.
it is that almost three dimensional glow the grain throws back when it is really polished.

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel; Smack on the wrist dear boy,,,,the word is Chatoyance
Or is this another one of you Americans' Socks/Sox
Regards, Bill

 

[jfrantz]

Somewhere. Mine is kind of touch-n-go, so I wouldn't call it a procedure, but it normally goes something like:

1. Sand blank with 320.
2. Healthy application of thin CA to pop and seal the grain.
3. Generous applications of medium CA. Fold a paper towel to the width of one blank. Run a bead on the edge. With the lathe at 500, introduce the CA, little wiggle as it starts to get sticky.
4. With my roughest MM, sand the blank until there's a uniform haze over it. Just don't sand it all off. Any lines that are still transparent will cause a low spot. Sand and cross sand.
5. Repeat steps 3 and four one or two more times.
6. MM with accelerator as a lubricant to 12000.
7. If I have the urge, I may white diamond it followed by a clean wheel. If I've got something like Trade Secret I may apply it. Both these are rather optional.

That's it in a nutshell.

Skye<
Do you wet or dry sand? How long do you wait between coats?
Thanks,
Stem

 

[cozee]

As for CA finish, I apply 3-4 coats of thick CA with a piece of 3x5 card, each set with accelerator. I then turn with a very sharp scraper till it is sized like I want it. I then usually begin wet sanding with 3600 MM out to 12000. Cut and buff with 3 compounds and wax with a good car wax. Overall time is typically less than 5 minutes. I will be doing a demo again this year at the MPG in April.

 

[marcruby]

Congratualations on finding a way that works for you!! Rather than tell you what I do let me encourage you to repeat your process a large number of times, refining it as you go. CA is as changeable as the weather and we all have difference and equally changeable visions of what perfection is. Even with something as slight as the finish on a pen, it is the journey that counts.

Marc

 

[Hillbilly]

Hey ya'll

I turned my 6th pen tonight and the CA seems to work for me. I like using the BLO on the CA it seems easier to get the CA smooth. One key thing I found for myself is that you have to be fast when you swipe with the CA and one pass only at a time then I put the BLO on just as fast as I can pick up the paper towel. When I buffed this out tonight it got really hot on my fingers. The shine didnt come till it got real hot. I used a liquid car polish it was all I had

This is my finish with the CA/BLO

 

[sefali]

I see you're a big butt man, huh?
Nice finish.

 

[its_virgil]

...Hutts Crystal Plastic Polish

Did you mean HUT Crystal Coat which is a friction polish or did you mean HUT Ultra Gloss Plastic Polish which is indeed a polish for plastics and does a wonderful job polishing CA to a brilliant shine?

Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[Tn-Steve]

...Hutts Crystal Plastic Polish

Did you mean HUT Crystal Coat which is a friction polish or did you mean HUT Ultra Gloss Plastic Polish which is indeed a polish for plastics and does a wonderful job polishing CA to a brilliant shine?

Do a good turn daily!
Don

The Hut Ultra Gloss Plastic Polish is what I meant. That's what happens when I try and remember what labels say when I'm at work.


Steve

 

[jfrantz]

Somewhere. Mine is kind of touch-n-go, so I wouldn't call it a procedure, but it normally goes something like:

1. Sand blank with 320.
2. Healthy application of thin CA to pop and seal the grain.
3. Generous applications of medium CA. Fold a paper towel to the width of one blank. Run a bead on the edge. With the lathe at 500, introduce the CA, little wiggle as it starts to get sticky.
4. With my roughest MM, sand the blank until there's a uniform haze over it. Just don't sand it all off. Any lines that are still transparent will cause a low spot. Sand and cross sand.
5. Repeat steps 3 and four one or two more times.
6. MM with accelerator as a lubricant to 12000.
7. If I have the urge, I may white diamond it followed by a clean wheel. If I've got something like Trade Secret I may apply it. Both these are rather optional.

That's it in a nutshell.

As for CA finish, I apply 3-4 coats of thick CA with a piece of 3x5 card, each set with accelerator. I then turn with a very sharp scraper till it is sized like I want it. I then usually begin wet sanding with 3600 MM out to 12000. Cut and buff with 3 compounds and wax with a good car wax. Overall time is typically less than 5 minutes. I will be doing a demo again this year at the MPG in April.

How do you keep the ca from sticking to the bushings?

 

[marcruby]

How do you keep the ca from sticking to the bushings?

Do you really need to? I make a cut with the sharp point of the skew that lets me remove the bushings without any stress and then they go into a cup of acetone for cleaning. The turned blanks get sanded gently to remove any residual glue and sharpness.

Marc

 

[jfrantz]

As for CA finish, I apply 3-4 coats of thick CA with a piece of 3x5 card, each set with accelerator. I then turn with a very sharp scraper till it is sized like I want it. I then usually begin wet sanding with 3600 MM out to 12000. Cut and buff with 3 compounds and wax with a good car wax. Overall time is typically less than 5 minutes. I will be doing a demo again this year at the MPG in April.

How do you keep the ca from sticking to the bushings?

 

[Hillbilly]

I glued right over the bushings. Then like marc said I also use the point of my skew and made a parting cut, not all the way through I just scored it. When the blank came off the bushing easily snapped off the end of the pen barrel.

 

[Krenzr]

A quick question for you cozee. I use CA to glue the tubes to the pen blanks. Typically I use water from a spray bottle as the accelerator. That goes back to my model ship building days. What are you using as the accelerator on the finish? Is it just straight mineral spirits?

 

[gbarcus]

I use Stick Fast activator from Rockler that comes in an aerosol can.
Works great as long as you don't spray too much, as it can causes bubbles in the glue.
I've never tried water, I'll have to give that a shot.

The way I keep the CA glue from sticking to my bushing is to run a quick thin layer of CA glue over both the wood and bushings and then quickly wipe it off with a paper towel then spray activator on it. This prevents the glue from going too far down into the bushing and is then easy to snap off once you are done.

 

[Rudy Vey]

I use Stick Fast activator from Rockler that comes in an aerosol can.
Works great as long as you don't spray too much, as it can causes bubbles in the glue.
I've never tried water, I'll have to give that a shot.

The way I keep the CA glue from sticking to my bushing is to run a quick thin layer of CA glue over both the wood and bushings and then quickly wipe it off with a paper towel then spray activator on it. This prevents the glue from going too far down into the bushing and is then easy to snap off once you are done.

I am using spray can (aerosol) accelerator for several years and never seen my CA bubble. Could it be that you are too close when you spray it on?? I keep about a good foot distance, give a quick spray while the blank is spinning.

 

[Krenzr]

Thanks for the info. I have always been frustrated removing the milky white left-overs. Hull planks you could always remove with a knife but there were all the delicate areas I did not dare to use.

I only ever used the water on the ends of the pens to harden the glue. This was to save on the sanding disk when I was squaring off the ends of the blanks. it isn't something i recommend.

Thanks for your help!!

 

[gbarcus]

Yeah, I accidentally put too much on and it bubbled. It took me a bit to spray just the right amount of activator. Although I'll never forget the time I applied CA glue on a blank using my finger (rubber glove) and then sprayed activator, not realizing my finger still had glue on it and got some overspray...learned a good lesson in chemistry.