entering more than one level of contest.

[mredburn]

I have a pm from one of the members about entering more than one level of contest in the Bash. He believes he is a strong Intermediate. His question is can he enter a pen in the intermediate and advanced as well.
My thoughts are that yes he can. If you want to stretch your abiities by trying a more advanced contest go for it. Of course that brings out the issue, if he thinks he can compete at the higher level should he even be in the lower levels.
Do we want the members to choose their level and stay in it. What if he is picked as a finalist in both contests? Its not probable but it could happen. Have we ever made a policy on this issue?

 

[toddlajoie]

I'm with you on allowing people to push themselves, and in theory I would be fine with allowing it, but I could see someone turning it around and saying that since they are on the low end of one level they should be able to enter the lower contest also...

Unfortunately, I think if we are going to allow users to self-asses their level, they are going to have to pick one and stick with it, otherwise, nearly everyone could enter everything.

 

[Dalecamino]

I agree they should pick one level to be fair to others. A lot of entrants would be upset if he were to sweep both levels. I'm pretty sure we would hear from Ed about that as well.

Just had another thought, one could enter another contest also.

 

[mredburn]

A true beginner entering not only the beginners contest but also entering the Intermediate and advanced would not stand much of a chance at winning the upper level contests but he would have participated, made some pens and had fun. It becomes more of a problem with the Advanced and Intermediate levels where they can overlap. It also seems as I type that we would have a problem with the membership at large with the perception that if he thinks he is good enough to enter the Advanced he doesnt belong in Intermediate. Even if his only intent was to be able to say "I entered the advanced contests." I think I have found my answer. thanks guys.

 

[mredburn]

on a follow up question Is the Freestyle now that it is "outside the box" considered an advanced level only competition? Can an intermediate or beginner enter this competition without jeopardizing his beginner status?

 

[ed4copies]

Why do we call them "Intermediate" and "Advanced"??

The real distinction is "mostly kit" and "modified kit and "kitless"".

If a member uses a kit, is he forever "Intermediate"???

In my vocabulary, the purpose of a pen is to write---the most "advanced" pen is the one that can be sold for the "highest price". I will be happy to take a kit pen and park in the booth next to anyone making and selling kitless. While he is advanced and I am a mere intermediate, I am pretty certain I will emerge with more cash.

I suggest we change our designations and eliminate this problem---

FWIW,
EdB

 

[ed4copies]

I'm with you on allowing people to push themselves, and in theory I would be fine with allowing it, but I could see someone turning it around and saying that since they are on the low end of one level they should be able to enter the lower contest also...

Unfortunately, I think if we are going to allow users to self-asses their level, they are going to have to pick one and stick with it, otherwise, nearly everyone could enter everything.

When did this become a BAD thing?? The original purpose of the IAP was to encourage the membership to become involved---participating in the contests is the ultimate in "involvement". I would think you have brilliantly stated the GOAL of the bash!!!

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I'd say that by having three levels, we're forcing someone to choose a level and stick to it.

If they want to push themselves, pick the higher level...

That being said, I think Ed's right - the definitions should be based on materials used, not skill level - except for beginner...but that's a concept for next year...

 

[toddlajoie]

When did this become a BAD thing?? The original purpose of the IAP was to encourage the membership to become involved---participating in the contests is the ultimate in "involvement". I would think you have brilliantly stated the GOAL of the bash!!!

And what a great shot to the ego it will be for all our Beginner Entrants to loose out to Skiprat...

 

[ed4copies]

That is certainly the perception of today's society: If you don't win, you lose!!

So Thomas Edison was a REAL loser---5000 attempts at a light bulb all failed. But, he learned something from each one. AND no one else got hurt from his "failures".

Allow each person to select the competition in which he would like to partake. Each entrant knows his chances of success, few of us over-rate our own abilities. Skiprat is afraid he might lose, so he won't be there. Some young guy we don't know MAY win--after all, that is the stated purpose of "unidentified" entries. They are judged on their own merits, NOT the reputation of the builder.

I will tell you, I have lost many times---but I won "high point trophy" my senior year in college, in track. Every loss motivated me to win---finally that became a reality. Had I not competed, I can assure you I would never have reached this level.

I know, it's not "politically fashionable" to embrace failure as a tool to advancement!!

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I would say the freestyle contest because of is an outside the box contest one could enter regardless of pen making ability. I entered it the first year I was a member. A talented wood carver who is a new pen Turner can still make something great.

Sent from my phone using some program

 

[Brooks803]

I think we're a bit late to enforce anything this year. No ones rules state you can't enter more than one contest that is "skill" based.

Next year I think we need to come up with some sort of cut off criteria.

 

[ed4copies]

I think we're a bit late to enforce anything this year. No ones rules state you can't enter more than one contest that is "skill" based.

Next year I think we need to come up with some sort of cut off criteria.

Certainly this will be debated after the bash. I think there is no reason a participant in the "very modified kit or kitless" (now advanced) should be ruled out of the "not very modified kit" (now intermediate). We just need to eliminate the "advanced and intermediate" tags.

 

[mredburn]

I made a decision early on and informed the member. He was fine with that decision. I agree it should be debated and amended. I prefer as much participation as we can get.