lawry76
Member
I notice that some of you "dip" your pens to get a finish on them. Any tips or suggestions? Just one dip? Do you dip directly into the can? Do you let it sit for a moment and "soak" or just dip in and out rather quickly? Thanks.
Dipper Question
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Fred in NC
Member
I don't dip, but one of these days will try it. My main concern has been getting finish inside the tubes. I would like to hear how those who dip do it.
I am not the final authority on "dipping" anything, but here are a few things that I know about the topic.
Not every pen is for dipping. The pen must be a design with a smooth barrel shape, and no beads, grooves, or other things that can trap the lacquer as it flows down along the pen.
If you are dipping with both barrels, the same thing about no beads or abrupt changes in dimension will apply. You must have a smooth transition between the barrels for a smooth flow of the lacquer. If the barrels are not the same size, you will have to a transition piece, or use the same mandrel bushing, that will allow a smooth flow of lacquer from one barrel to the other.
You can use a bolt, a piece of all-thread rod and a couple nuts, or a piece of wood dowel to hold the pen barrel for dipping, but ALWAYS have an old bushing or make one from a piece of wood that is the same size as both ends of the pen barrel. You want something that makes a smooth transition onto the wood at either end.
At the bottom, this bushing will give the lacquer something to run onto and drip from other then the pen barrel. This prevents a bead of finish from forming on the end of the barrel.
If you are using a bolt, you don't want the head of the bolt or a washer to be in contact with the end of the barrel at either end. To do so will allow the lacquer to form a fillet in the corner.
If you are dipping with both barrels, always have the tip of the pen on the bottom. There will be a slight difference in the film thickness between the top and bottom of the pen and it is better to have the thicker film in the wear area on the lower barrel.
<b>This is not a grain filler.</b> The wood must be filled, sealed, and smooth BEFORE dipping. All imperfections in the surface will transfer through the finish. Filling the wood grain with CA glue, and sanding to at least 1000 grit are prerequisites for dipping.
Bubbles were tken care of with the above sealing with CA glue.
Regular Deft in the can is the right consistency for dipping, and its drying rate is slow enough that it will flow into a smooth film on the wood. I like to do both barrels at the same time, and this means a full quart can of Deft. If you decant the lacquer into a smaller and taller container, ALWAYS wait for the bubbles to rise in the liquid lacquer before dipping.
One dip is all that is required. Let it drip dry, and then hang it up for a week to allow the solvents to evaporate and the lacquer to get hard enough to handle.
Remove all of the bushings, and clean up the ends of the wood with a sharp barrel trimmer. Using the trimmer by hand is better than power. Lacquer is a poor glue and the sacrificial bushings should snap righ off the wood.
Soak everything in lacquer thinner and you can use it again.
If you did it right, the finish will be as smooth as glass, and there is nothing you can do to make it any better.
The attached photo shows dipping with an old 7mm ,andrel to hold the barrels. Note the bushing at the bottom, and the smooth transition between the barrels. Since the top is "open" there is no need for anything there.
This isn't a good photo because it is a frame that was grabbed from a video presentation of "dipping".
Isn't there an article somewhere on how to do this. If there is, I am sorry for taking up so much space for nothing.
<br />
Not every pen is for dipping. The pen must be a design with a smooth barrel shape, and no beads, grooves, or other things that can trap the lacquer as it flows down along the pen.
If you are dipping with both barrels, the same thing about no beads or abrupt changes in dimension will apply. You must have a smooth transition between the barrels for a smooth flow of the lacquer. If the barrels are not the same size, you will have to a transition piece, or use the same mandrel bushing, that will allow a smooth flow of lacquer from one barrel to the other.
You can use a bolt, a piece of all-thread rod and a couple nuts, or a piece of wood dowel to hold the pen barrel for dipping, but ALWAYS have an old bushing or make one from a piece of wood that is the same size as both ends of the pen barrel. You want something that makes a smooth transition onto the wood at either end.
At the bottom, this bushing will give the lacquer something to run onto and drip from other then the pen barrel. This prevents a bead of finish from forming on the end of the barrel.
If you are using a bolt, you don't want the head of the bolt or a washer to be in contact with the end of the barrel at either end. To do so will allow the lacquer to form a fillet in the corner.
If you are dipping with both barrels, always have the tip of the pen on the bottom. There will be a slight difference in the film thickness between the top and bottom of the pen and it is better to have the thicker film in the wear area on the lower barrel.
<b>This is not a grain filler.</b> The wood must be filled, sealed, and smooth BEFORE dipping. All imperfections in the surface will transfer through the finish. Filling the wood grain with CA glue, and sanding to at least 1000 grit are prerequisites for dipping.
Bubbles were tken care of with the above sealing with CA glue.
Regular Deft in the can is the right consistency for dipping, and its drying rate is slow enough that it will flow into a smooth film on the wood. I like to do both barrels at the same time, and this means a full quart can of Deft. If you decant the lacquer into a smaller and taller container, ALWAYS wait for the bubbles to rise in the liquid lacquer before dipping.
One dip is all that is required. Let it drip dry, and then hang it up for a week to allow the solvents to evaporate and the lacquer to get hard enough to handle.
Remove all of the bushings, and clean up the ends of the wood with a sharp barrel trimmer. Using the trimmer by hand is better than power. Lacquer is a poor glue and the sacrificial bushings should snap righ off the wood.
Soak everything in lacquer thinner and you can use it again.
If you did it right, the finish will be as smooth as glass, and there is nothing you can do to make it any better.
The attached photo shows dipping with an old 7mm ,andrel to hold the barrels. Note the bushing at the bottom, and the smooth transition between the barrels. Since the top is "open" there is no need for anything there.
This isn't a good photo because it is a frame that was grabbed from a video presentation of "dipping".
Isn't there an article somewhere on how to do this. If there is, I am sorry for taking up so much space for nothing.
Fred,
I don't drip very much anymore since I found a way to make CA work for me but when I do drip I use a bore brush to clean out tubes. Since you use Polycrylic you will find you will not have some of the problems that dripping lacquer has...
I don't drip very much anymore since I found a way to make CA work for me but when I do drip I use a bore brush to clean out tubes. Since you use Polycrylic you will find you will not have some of the problems that dripping lacquer has...
Addendum to Russ's post above, taken from a prior lesson from Russ. [
]
"I use a gun cleaning brush to remove the finish from the inside of the tubes."
As always, Russ, thank you for providing us with your knowledge and the fruits of your vast experience.
] "I use a gun cleaning brush to remove the finish from the inside of the tubes."
As always, Russ, thank you for providing us with your knowledge and the fruits of your vast experience.
ilikewood
Member
Russ has a great description there. I personally have had zero problems with the finish inside the tube...out of 1000+ pens...ZERO problems.
But you KNOW someone's gonna ask! [
]lawry76
Member
Thanks Russ, that was a perfect response to my question. I am going to continue to perfect my CA technique but wanted to try this a couple of times just to see what it looks like.
I appreciated it.
I appreciated it.
alamocdc
Member
Great info! I've been using some Deft brushing lacquer lately and was thinking that dipping had to be a better way to go. Thanks, Russ! And thanks for asking, Robert. I will most defintely be putting this to use! []
]
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Good thread, with excellent tips, Thank you Russ. Does anyone have suggestions for the caliber of gun cleaning brushes to clean the various tube sizes?
swm6500
Member
I probably don't have the patience for dipping. The hang it up for a week and let it dry just doesn't go along with my need for instant gratification.
The common ingredient in all high quality finishes is "patience". A common problem among all woodturners is that finishing refuses to accomodate out "impatience". All finishes have to be dry or cured before they are handled.
The "hang it up and let it dry for a week" is what we should be doing with any finish we put on a pen, and especially when it is a shellac or lacquer. It has nothing to do with how it is applied. The time requirement is just more obvious for a "dipped" pen because the film is thicker.
Handling and using the pen "before its time" is the biggest reason so many people are unhappy with their finishes of any type. They aren't hard enough to be handled for assembly or use as a pen.
Even the "instant" CA glue finish will be the better if we allow it 24 to 48 hours to reach a full cure before we start handling it or polishing it.
The "hang it up and let it dry for a week" is what we should be doing with any finish we put on a pen, and especially when it is a shellac or lacquer. It has nothing to do with how it is applied. The time requirement is just more obvious for a "dipped" pen because the film is thicker.
Handling and using the pen "before its time" is the biggest reason so many people are unhappy with their finishes of any type. They aren't hard enough to be handled for assembly or use as a pen.
Even the "instant" CA glue finish will be the better if we allow it 24 to 48 hours to reach a full cure before we start handling it or polishing it.
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Thanks, Chuck. It is off to Wally World for me. [
]
alamocdc
Member
I'm listening, Russ, I'm listening. And I'm trying to be patient, really I am! []
]Fred in NC
Member
I found the hard way: Finishes need time to cure. Russ is right, a lot of finishing problems are due to assembling too soon.
swm6500
Member
Well then, I guess I will just have to try some of the longer times for curing the finishes.
No doubt about it... lacquer especially needs time to cure, I found that out the hard way on scroll saw portriats I do.. had totally refinish a piece I was doing for a contest... 20x36" piece cut from 5/8" walnut... luckily I had the time to refinish...
I have a gold amboyna burl blank curing now.. and let me tell you patience is not one of my strong points [}]. I really want to see this pen assembled, but the blank is just too too pretty to screw up..
Today is day 2... I probably will not touch the blank until Saturday.. it has 6 coats of lacquer sprayed on over a 4 hour period.. fortunately the weather is supposed to be in the 80's all week which will aid curing..
I have a gold amboyna burl blank curing now.. and let me tell you patience is not one of my strong points [}
]. I really want to see this pen assembled, but the blank is just too too pretty to screw up..Today is day 2... I probably will not touch the blank until Saturday.. it has 6 coats of lacquer sprayed on over a 4 hour period.. fortunately the weather is supposed to be in the 80's all week which will aid curing..
lkorn
Member
Tom,
Do you use a sprayer with compresssed air OR Deft in a Spray Can?
Do you use a sprayer with compresssed air OR Deft in a Spray Can?
Spray can of Deft... don't have a compressor or HVLP sprayer yet...
lkorn
Member
DArn, How do you get so many light coats???
I'l lucky when the stuff doesn't run on me[]
I'l lucky when the stuff doesn't run on me[
]
alamocdc
Member
Tom, when you get an HVLP gun, you will love it!
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