Crisis Averted
- Thread starter KenB259
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jttheclockman
Member
Oh boy. This is one of those problems that are unseen and can cause series problems if not caught in time. What is the solution?? The only thing I can say is go through the entire house and check each power point weather a switch, outlet or splice, including the main panel. Of course this should be done by a Pro. Many times what happens is constant use of pulling in and out of a receptacle can loosen wires. Another reason and this is probably what happened here, is that when a high amperage appliance such as a heating element will heat the wires and the constant cooling and heating will expand the diameter of the wires ever so slightly and this can lead to loose connections. Then there is the person installing device and not really paying attention to not only tightness but shaping and forming wires when installing in a box. I have seen wire shoved in a box and they can cut on ground screw or wire connector. over time again heat can advance the wear on them. Anytime you see intermitting power on a switch, outlet, or light it would be wise to have a look behind the scenes. Glad you caught in time.
egnald
Member
Nice save! One of my favorite pet peeves is when fires get blamed on electrical shorts when it is usually caused by the opposite — high resistance connections. Shorts usually blow fuses and pop breakers which are designed to prevent fire, but high resistance generates heat which often leads to fire. - Dave
jttheclockman
Member
Spot on Dave. Yes shorts can cause fires too but in homes it more the wrong appliance in the wrong outlet or some sort of fault due to appliance or outlet or wiring. Resistive loads generate heat. We all need to heed the warning signs. With the Holidays fast approaching, the ever popular overloaded extension chord are always good for a few fires. Think before doing.
Brandy
Member
Electricity terrifies me - I'll always be thankful that my Realtor refused to let me move in until the seller fixed the electrical.
donstephan
Member
Glad it was caught promptly. I always cringe when a bookcase or other item is placed in front of an outlet, whether or not a plug is in it. Also, cutting a hole in the back of a chest to uncover an outlet, but doors on the front of the chest or cabinet.
Seer
Member
Glad you are safe. We got a device called TING through our insurance which monitors the entire house wiring system for outages, heat and potential issues. We got it for free but so far it has worked like it was made for.
Thank you so much for this. I had no idea such a thing existed. I checked into it and it's available to me also for free, at least for three years. I have one coming. Thanks again.
That's where AFCI circuit breakers come in handy as well!
jttheclockman
Member
I did not know there was such a TING either. Have to look into this and see what is behind the theory. Thanks.
OK had to look it up. Here is my thoughts. This device is a monitor that will send a warning to your phone when connected with an app. Without knowing all the inner workings it seems like another device that could possibly be of help at some time and not be a burden. But all caution is not thrown in the wind. That device is a not a fix all. It monitors arcing but does not shut off power to a defective device so arcing can go on for some time. Then you have to hunt down the area where this is happening. You may know there is an arcing device but not know where. This is where actual GFCI and AFCI breakers shine. They see a problem within that outlet or even an entire circuit and shut it down. You now have physical proof. I just do not know as I said the inner workings of how it can detect arcing from devices such as drill motors because of brushes and the like.
One other thing to note it will not detect overload heating which is the #1 problem when it comes to house fires. The situation that the OP shown here may not have been detected at all either. There may not have been any arcing at all. The connection could be just loose and still making good contact but now a smaller portion of the wire is carrying the current and thus the heat. This happens alot with stranded wire if applied to terminals or spliced, and not a good connection is made using a proper connector or twisting wire properly. If only half the strands are making contact you now have shrunk the size of the wire and it now is not rated to carry the current that it is designed for. Do not want to get too technical but so many things can cause fires. Lightning strikes where there is a huge power surge. Power strips are always a huge factor because people think they can plug as many devices in them as there is outlets. Have to remember current flows through the incoming wire and it size. Many people use house extension chords that are only 16 gauge wire and expect to light their entire Christmas tree and all the ornaments with one chord and thus overload. Any heating device is a huge resistive load weather a heating blanket, space heater, George Forman grill and so on are huge concerns when it comes to preventing fires. If you have worn out outlets where a chord goes in too easily it needs to be change. There needs to be resistance to help hold that chord in the outlet and make solid contact. Those Ting devices are only good for single phase power so any shop with 3 phase or DC power it will not work. Just some thoughts. Interesting though.
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monophoto
Member
Agree with everything John said - a Ting device might detect some problems, but I suspect it won't detect all potential concerns.
And I suspect that it works by detecting the random frequencies generated by arcing, so that means that there is a risk of false positives.
But if you have the discipline to investigate and resolve every alarm it reports, its probably not a bad thing.
Just another tool in the toolbox, my thoughts, it can't hurt.
Glad this was brought up. We just bought a house a month ago. It's about 40 yrs old. Very well built custom home with a lot of solid wood. Inspector says electric is all commercial grade, but I have a couple loose wall plates that I need to look at. It has a 200amp main panel and looks like circuits are divided pretty good. There are no GFI's so I need to check the circuits to see if I can add outlets or need to change breakers. We don't have internet in the country so the Ting thing is out for us. Thanks for the reminder y'all!
monophoto
Member
It looks to me like this receptacle was new (probably less than 20 years old). That's important because there was a brief period of time (in the 1960's) when new homes were built in the US using aluminum conductors for branch circuit wiring. It was very quickly learned that there are problems with aluminum wire, and electrical codes were updated to address this concern. But there are homes out there that still have aluminum wire; many years ago, one of my colleagues at work had a similar experience that was traced to the use of aluminum wire. The basic issues with aluminum are that (1) an oxide forms on wire that is semi-insulating and (2), when aluminum wire is put under pressure (as under a connection screw), the soft metal will deform over time and 'flow' out of the connection, causing it to become loose over time. Both tend to result in a gradual increase in resistance at the connection, and over time can lead to localized heating and, and in severe cases, arcing. While the apparent age of the receptacle suggests that the cause was something other than aluminum wire, I would still suggest checking a few other receptacles around the house to confirm that the branch wiring is all copper.
Aluminum conductors are still commonly used for residential service entrances, and sometimes for high-current branch circuits such as for ranges and water heaters. However, these applications use special connections that are designed to overcome the shortcomings of aluminum.
Aluminum conductors are still commonly used for residential service entrances, and sometimes for high-current branch circuits such as for ranges and water heaters. However, these applications use special connections that are designed to overcome the shortcomings of aluminum.