Segmenting Creating blanks with open circles/rings in them?

[jrista]

In my continued quest to try and create retro/vintage styled pens, I've been researching the design styles of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and in some cases even the 20s (as there some really nice designs that came out of the 20s). Circles are often a popular design element, especially from the 60s, and I've been wondering how to integrate them into a custom blank design.

Solid circles seem to be fairly strait forward. I picked up a plug cutter set from Harbor Freight, which makes it a little easier to cut out solid cores to place into the full pen blanks.

I'm now wondering if it is possible to create open circles, rings...maybe out of simple tubes? I suspect I could find white and black plastic tubes of some kind, but...what about other colors? I am also wondering if it would be possible to cut holes in a solid blank of the right size that such tubes could be sungly fit into. I think the snug fit is likely to be the biggest problem.

 

[howsitwork]

In my continued quest to try and create retro/vintage styled pens, I've been researching the design styles of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and in some cases even the 20s (as there some really nice designs that came out of the 20s). Circles are often a popular design element, especially from the 60s, and I've been wondering how to integrate them into a custom blank design.

Solid circles seem to be fairly strait forward. I picked up a plug cutter set from Harbor Freight, which makeout solid cores to place into the full pen blanks.

I'm now wondering if it is possible to create open circles, rings...maybe out of simple tubes? I suspect I could find white and black plastic tubes of some kind, but...what about other colors? I am also wondering if it would be possible to cut holes in a solid blank of the right size that such tubes could be sungly fit into. I think the snug fit is likely to be the biggest problem.

In my continued quest to try and create retro/vintage styled pens, I've been researching the design styles of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and in some cases even the 20s (as there some really nice designs that came out of the 20s). Circles are often a popular design element, especially from the 60s, and I've been wondering how to integrate them into a custom blank design.

Solid circles seem to be fairly strait forward. I picked up a plug cutter set from Harbor Freight, which makes it a little easier to cut out solid cores to place into the full pen blanks.

I'm now wondering if it is possible to create open circles, rings...maybe out of simple tubes?

Jon

you should look at model railway stuff and " plastistruct " which comes in card , tube and all sorts of sections and scales.

Then look at metric drills and select the one matching or 0.1mm larger to allow for glue.

maybe fill with resin of whatever colour you fancy ?

 

[jrista]

Jon

you should look at model railway stuff and " plastistruct " which comes in card , tube and all sorts of sections and scales.

Then look at metric drills and select the one matching or 0.1mm larger to allow for glue.

maybe fill with resin of whatever colour you fancy ?

Yeah, I am a model railroader myself, and I was looking at some of the sources for that. So far, I've only found white tubes...I can't seem to find any solid color tubes. That seems to be a universal fact, too...I figured finding solid color, small diameter colored tubing would be the least of my problems, but so far I've only found translucent tubes, and only in 1/4" and 1/2" sizes (I think I'll need some smaller than that in order to do some of what I'm wanting to do...1/2" is probably too large for most of the pen diameters I'll be turning, 3/8" might be pushing it, but I'd probably need 3/8", 1/4", and 1/8").

I didn't think if putting the tubes in my own resin...but...that might actually be the best way to do this. I don't think I'll achieve the look I'm looking for by trying to drill a hole and put the tubes in after the fact. I thin, though, if I can array the tubes in the orientations I need, find a way to hold them in those positions, then pour resin of the right colors around them, that would be ideal.

I wonder, too...if maybe I could pour my own tubes even....that is probably the only way I'm going to get the colors I want anyway. I guess I'd need maybe some solid rod for the cores, tubes with the appropriate inner diameters (3/8", 1/4", 1/8"), and some kind of apparatus that will keep the rods properly centered in the tubes during casting and set... Hmm..........

 

[magpens]

@jrista
Using a metal-working lathe, it would certainly be possible to machine a tube of the material and size you want.
You might have to first fill the center hole with the desired material and then turn down the outside to get the tube wall thickness you want.
I am pretty sure you could do the same on a wood-working lathe, once you have developed the right skill set.

Let me know what you want and I could run some experiments.

 

[jrista]

@jrista
Using a metal-working lathe, it would certainly be possible to machine a tube of the material and size you want.
You might have to first fill the center hole with the desired material and then turn down the outside to get the tube wall thickness you want.
I am pretty sure you could do the same on a wood-working lathe, once you have developed the right skill set.

Let me know what you want and I could run some experiments.

I wish I had a metal working lathe. ;P I've thought about making my own metal pen parts...but, its just not in the books right now.

I'll have to think on some experiments... I am normally using 3/4" blanks, maybe 7/8", for the pens I've been using for this vintage pen exploration. Most of the tubes are 3/8", 10mm or 10.5/12.5mm, or maybe 15/32nd and ... what would it be, 27/64th? Around there. So, I'd need circles and rings to be small enough, that they still looked like circles and rings when the blanks were turned down to size. I guess I would really need to measure all the bushings...I haven't done that. One of the kits is a chrome Baron, for example, and I've also been turning a lot of Stratus pens (LOVE Those, very retro looking!!)

Some of the designs I'm thinking of, and these are often based off of 60's interior design, 60's art design, etc. like the classic burnt umber couch with burnt sienna and harvest gold pillows, against a maroon wallpapered backdrop. This is kind of where I'm getting some of my ideas. So a similar pen, might be a Baron or a Stratus, with a burnt umber base blank, with maybe 3/8" harvest gold rod and 1/4" burnt sienna rod, plugged through the blank at opposing angles. Possibly two rows of that. Maybe just burnt umber with the circles for the cap, and maroon for the pen body, as a variation.

A design with rings, however, might be a lime green base color, with orange and white rings. I don't yet know just what thickness ring would work, but not super thin, neither really thick...I suspect at most 1/16" thick rings, but really probably more like 1/32" thick. The diameter of the rings would again be on the scale of 3/8", 1/4" and 1/8" probably. In some cases, I even thought about trying to overlap rings...but as of yet, I have no idea how I might actually go about doing that. The rings might even be organized in such a manner that they may not simply be strait along the length of the pen. I have been thinking on how to do this, and if I cast my own blanks, I could probably arrange some kind of basic jig to hold one ring at say a 30 degree angle, one at a 0 degree angle, and another at a -15 or -30 degree angle, criss-crossed through the blank down its length.. Possibly just a flat piece of wood that I could drill just-right sized holes through, and maybe even a piece of wood that I could drill four sets of holes through to support pouring four blanks at a time with my 4-slot molds.

Anyway...that is what I've been trying to figure out today....is this possible, if so how, and just what size tubes and rods might I need?

 

[jrista]

Hmm, here is an image I just brought up:

60s burnt sienna and harvest gold pillows - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

This gives me another idea. An offset two-color blank, where maybe 1/3rd of it is one color, and the other 2/3rds are another. The larger 2/3rds part could have a circle of another color material in it. You would then get something similar to the wall of this photo, on both sides of your pen. LOL, call me crazy, but...I find a lot of interesting inspiration in these interior design type photos. Especially for 60s design.

 

[jrista]

Here is another photo that gave me some interesting ideas:

60s burnt sienna and harvest gold pillows - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Mostly white pen, with turquoise accents, and maybe some custom work to inject that bright orange in somehow. Say maybe a click pen, with a custom click cap turned out of, maybe orange ebonite? Perhaps replace the band with a custom turned band, again maybe out of ebonite...

Another idea might be to try and find a pen kit anodized blue (there are a couple out there), then find a way to put an orange square through the blank near the finial end.

 

[magpens]

@jrista
Thanks for replying to my suggestion.
I will check out the links you have given immediately above and see what I think.

If you can, send me a sketch of what you are contemplating.
It's not immediately clear to me how the axes of the imbedded "tubes" should be oriented with respect to (w.r.t.) the defining pen axis.

I am always looking for novel ideas to jazz up the pens we make, so this could be fun !

EDIT: I just had a quick look at the links you sent and it's not any clearer what you want to do ! ! . . LOL ! ( I am not an interior designer ! )

 

[PatrickR]

a lot going on there. Dig deep into the segmenting techniques. Circles can turn into an oval when turned.
the tubes you will have to make to get exactly what you want. Not easy to do at these sizes accurately.
one idea is to start with colored pencils with a lead color you like, then turn them to the OD you want, then dye the wood to your liking.

 

[jrista]

Sorry, took me a little while to find one of these again as I'd accidentally closed them. This was one of the things that gave me the idea of having some offset rings:

60s burnt sienna and harvest gold pillows - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

Its not the best example, but it is one that stuck in my mind. I probably wouldn't have them touching...but, some kind of non-linear orientation like that, where the rings are oriented somehow in a bit of a curve "around" the circumference of the blank (when turned down) is what I am thinking. If I were to cast my own blank, I'd have to orient the tubes in such a manner that, once the blank was turned, the rings had the appropriate orientation. To do that, I think I would need to have each tube passing through central axis of the blank, at different angles. The easiest is the vertical tube, which would pass strait down into the mold, in the center of the space that would be filled with resin. The other two would have to be at different angles. I think all of them, though, would need to pass through the center axis of the blank in order to look right on both sides.

 

[jrista]

a lot going on there. Dig deep into the segmenting techniques. Circles can turn into an oval when turned.
the tubes you will have to make to get exactly what you want. Not easy to do at these sizes accurately.
one idea is to start with colored pencils with a lead color you like, then turn them to the OD you want, then dye the wood to your liking.

Hmm, do they really become oval, or do they sometimes just appear to be oval? I know that strait lines can appear to be curved in some ways when you turn a square thing round... Looking at some of my blanks here...I am thinking that if the circles are too large, I can indeed see how they might appear to elongate around the blank. I have seen some really great pens with circular shapes in them, like this excellent one from John T.:

Baron with Dots

This is a Baron with an aluminum cap and aluminum dots.

www.penturners.org

I wonder if I keep the circles small enough, if they might work. Perhaps 3/8" is too large, but 1/4", 1/8", might just be the right size to avoid apparent elongation once turned?

 

[edfield]

In my continued quest to try and create retro/vintage styled pens, I've been researching the design styles of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and in some cases even the 20s (as there some really nice designs that came out of the 20s). Circles are often a popular design element, especially from the 60s, and I've been wondering how to integrate them into a custom blank design.

Solid circles seem to be fairly strait forward. I picked up a plug cutter set from Harbor Freight, which makes it a little easier to cut out solid cores to place into the full pen blanks.

I'm now wondering if it is possible to create open circles, rings...maybe out of simple tubes? I suspect I could find white and black plastic tubes of some kind, but...what about other colors? I am also wondering if it would be possible to cut holes in a solid blank of the right size that such tubes could be sungly fit into. I think the snug fit is likely to be the biggest problem.

Plastic reusable drinking straws. Here's an example.

Amazon.com

 

[jrista]

Plastic reusable drinking straws. Here's an example.

Robot or human?

Thanks! Those looked like they were translucent, but it lead me to these:

Robot or human?

This might work for some of the ideas. Its a good way to start experimenting, at least!

And these ones might have a bit more "retro" style to their color:

Robot or human?

 

[edfield]

Those are pretty thin, might have problems with wrinkles when pushing thru the blank.

These are more opaque.

Amazon.com

A bunch of different ones here.

reusable plastic straws for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for reusable plastic straws at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

Might want to stay away from any that say they are painted.

 

[edfield]

Individual colors available here.

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

They are fairly opaque from the end which is what you would see. A lot of possibilities using a tube. Varying the angle used to drill thru the blank would change the shape from circle to an ellipse. Drilling off-center could yield some interesting shapes as well.

 

[PatrickR]

Hmm, do they really become oval, or do they sometimes just appear to be oval? I know that strait lines can appear to be curved in some ways when you turn a square thing round... Looking at some of my blanks here...I am thinking that if the circles are too large, I can indeed see how they might appear to elongate around the blank. I have seen some really great pens with circular shapes in them, like this excellent one from John T.:

Baron with Dots

This is a Baron with an aluminum cap and aluminum dots.

www.penturners.org

I wonder if I keep the circles small enough, if they might work. Perhaps 3/8" is too large, but 1/4", 1/8", might just be the right size to avoid apparent elongation once turned?

I'm not a 3d kind of thinker nor segmenter. It has to do with angles, drilled and turned.
be careful of straws/tubes that you buy. Many plastics are not glue friendly.

 

[Curly]

You could try the hole saws used to extract broken wood screws like the plug cutters and fill them with coloured resin. They have a thin wall so should make thin tubes. Other places sell them too.

Screw Extractor

Makes damaged screw extraction quick and easy with your choice of Screw Extractors! Simply put the bit in your drill and use your drill in reverse to remove the stripped screw!

www.rockler.com

I'll add that you can make your own with roll pins and Dremel discs.

 

[jttheclockman]

Been here so have a couple suggestions for you. First off translucent tubes are no problem because you are standing on end and that is all you will see. Now if you are laying flat then whatever color you put inside will have an effect. What you need to do is look at mosaic knife pins.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/103195...2913&msclkid=fdaaa3eb7b281e0f5b78c234d9a7cbcc

There is a ton of ideas out there using these. Also do a search here for there was people adding them into their pens and they look cool. There are utube videos that show how to build them and pour the colored resins. Over the years I have collected a ton of varied tubes and rods in various metals and plastics in hopes of doing things like this. I have so many ideas that I hope and wish I find enough time in my lifetime to implement many of my ideas because I know for fact it will WOW the audience here.

Not understanding your half circle adage and what you are looking for.

I do dots on my blanks a couple different ways. I can use a drill press or I do mostly with a lathe and my router jig. Have a cool blank on the work table somewhere that is going to look cool when done but again just do not have the time. The big key is to be able to do indexing.

 

[jrista]

Been here so have a couple suggestions for you. First off translucent tubes are no problem because you are standing on end and that is all you will see. Now if you are laying flat then whatever color you put inside will have an effect. What you need to do is look at mosaic knife pins.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/103195...2913&msclkid=fdaaa3eb7b281e0f5b78c234d9a7cbcc

There is a ton of ideas out there using these. Also do a search here for there was people adding them into their pens and they look cool. There are utube videos that show how to build them and pour the colored resins. Over the years I have collected a ton of varied tubes and rods in various metals and plastics in hopes of doing things like this. I have so many ideas that I hope and wish I find enough time in my lifetime to implement many of my ideas because I know for fact it will WOW the audience here.

Not understanding your half circle adage and what you are looking for.

I do dots on my blanks a couple different ways. I can use a drill press or I do mostly with a lathe and my router jig. Have a cool blank on the work table somewhere that is going to look cool when done but again just do not have the time. The big key is to be able to do indexing.

I actually found mosaic pins a couple months back, when I bought some trustone knife scales to cut into pen blanks. Only way I could get certain trustone, as it seems to be going out of stock everywhere, and rarely gets back into stock. Anyway, saw the mosaic pins, and thought it was interesting... I did wonder how easily they would be to cut with a turning tool...seems like a lot of metal?

As for the circles. Its not half circles. It would be full circles, or rings...just arranged in patterns, and not all necessarily linear patterns.

I did think of another way to do this. Would be a multi-step process, but, I could pour blanks with the base color. Then drill holes of the right size once they set, and pour in resin of the right color for the circle or ring. For rings, I would then drill out the rings with a smaller bit, then fill in the original base resin color again. I could also do concentric rings and circles by filling in with different color resins.

The trickiest part of trying to do it that way, I think, would be getting the drill bit dead centered in the middle of each parent circle. I think that might be hard to do, and I have found that it is extremely hard to get the drill press to drill perfectly strait, and I don't know how I could do it on the lathe and get any straiter than the press.

 

[jrista]

I'm not a 3d kind of thinker nor segmenter. It has to do with angles, drilled and turned.
be careful of straws/tubes that you buy. Many plastics are not glue friendly.

I'll see if I can do some kind of simple 3d model sketch to demonstrate. Its a relatively simple concept, I think...but could be tough to do right in practice.

 

[magpens]

@jrista

I just remembered this recent thread from Dec 30, 2021.
Some of the concepts you have been talking about may be on display here.
In any case, this is a noteworthy pen and I am sure there are things to learn from it.
I don't see any posts in this thread by you, Jon, so you might have missed it . . . take a look.
It does have some circle and ring structures.

The title of the thread is "5 woods and a drillpress":

5 woods and a drillpress.

Oak, wenge, padouk, merbau and yew, Artisan clicker penkit with a very long tube. Took a lot of glue to keep it together. When i turn it around it changes every 10 degrees or so. Ca finish

www.penturners.org

 

[Alan Morrison]

A tube from a pen kit will ensure a tight fit which can then be filled with anything. I've used tooth picks and resin in the past.

 

[Curly]

The answer might lie with a 3D printer along the lines of the imitation Gisi blanks. Printing a mold with the design of circles and/or any other geometric shapes and then add coloured resins where you want.

 

[PatrickR]

I'll see if I can do some kind of simple 3d model sketch to demonstrate. Its a relatively simple concept, I think...but could be tough to do right in practice.

This is an extreme example

Colored pencil..pen

PSI Slimline. Silmar41 w/carbon black pigment. My 1st attempt, not great but acceptable. Crap wood in the pencils makes it a fragile turning. 45 deg. layout in the custom mold. 10 coats CA, MM to 12,000 and plastic polish.

www.penturners.org

 

[jttheclockman]

There is many examples of what you are wanting to do here. Can not remember his name but he did lots of that kind of stuff. I am thinking you want dots and not large circles that are spalyed out. There is a person here that shows this too using his drill press and hole saws.

https://www.penturners.org/threads/mosaic-pin-test-in-wood-and-pr.90098/


If you do keep the dots small enough then they will not become elongated, yes. You can also attach the dots to the tubes and then pour the blank around the dots which means no drilling. I did that with these diamonds on these pens.

 

[jrista]

Some clever stuff, John! Thanks! Hadn't thought of gluing things right to the tubes, but its a good idea in some cases. I am clearly going to need to get something to do indexing at some point. For now, I've just been planning to work on the 4 sides of each blank, but I think eventually I'll need to be able to round, index, and drill holes or cut grooves with precision.

 

[edfield]

Some clever stuff, John! Thanks! Hadn't thought of gluing things right to the tubes, but its a good idea in some cases. I am clearly going to need to get something to do indexing at some point. For now, I've just been planning to work on the 4 sides of each blank, but I think eventually I'll need to be able to round, index, and drill holes or cut grooves with precision.

If you have access to a 3D printer this seems like what you are looking for.

Drill Press Jig

I posted a couple of messages detailing the evolution of this homemade, 3d printed jig I use to drill holes at incremented angles in wood center bands and blanks. It's been fun to make and work with. My post- Part 1 My post- Part 2 If you would like to print one yourself I'm attaching the...

www.penturners.org

If you don't have a 3D printer there are sites you can upload the model and they print it and ship to you for a fee.

 

[jrista]

If you have access to a 3D printer this seems like what you are looking for.

Drill Press Jig

I posted a couple of messages detailing the evolution of this homemade, 3d printed jig I use to drill holes at incremented angles in wood center bands and blanks. It's been fun to make and work with. My post- Part 1 My post- Part 2 If you would like to print one yourself I'm attaching the...

www.penturners.org

If you don't have a 3D printer there are sites you can upload the model and they print it and ship to you for a fee.

Thanks, that looks really nice. I don't have a 3D printer, but, I may have to send out to have some of these 3d printed jigs created, as I've come across a few and they are really nice.

 

[edfield]

Thanks, that looks really nice. I don't have a 3D printer, but, I may have to send out to have some of these 3d printed jigs created, as I've come across a few and they are really nice.

Check with any techie friends you have. 3d printers are a lot more common than you might think.